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Holocaust Denier Arrested

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posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 07:44 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.




Originally posted by rufusdrak
Yet it's convenient, however, that the Jews are the only people that have created specific criteria and even a label "Holocaust denial".


The only people? Really? I don't think so.



You conveniently leave out who it is that created that criteria, I suppose it was the 'other groups' the gays and such right?


I have no idea. Do you? Given that such laws exist across a number of seperate sovereign states, I would imagine that they weren't all written by the same people. I have no idea of any of their backgrounds, and - I would suggest - neither do you.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by rufusdrak
 


firstly, I think Holocaust denial laws cover all the groups involved (ie Gypsies, Gays).
Secondly where did you get your information that 'Jews' created the criteria? I think by and large the EU Justice dept did.
And I doubt there are any valid arguments , that even someone like myself couldnt refute, claiming the Holocaust didnt occur, in fact holocaust denial is the first example in history of a serious effort to deny a massacre of group of people (and, no, Jews don't deny Ukrainians were killed by Stalin)occured.
Also, I myself am a real believer in free speech, and am personally not sure I agree with Holocaust denial being a crime. Remember this, as you feel you have the right to deny the holocaust-Jews have every right to talk about the holocaust, write books about it, make movies - if you don't like it don't listen.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by Rinorino2]



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 08:40 AM
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reply to post by Rinorino2
 


White supremacists and neo-Nazis like to blame Jews for certain things, rather than concede that there are large swathes of the white population that simply don't see things the way they do.
In the USA a majority of whites are probably more or less for multiculturalism and only a minority of whites would want to see blacks re-enslaved. Yet Jews are blamed for affirmative action etc.
Likewise in Germany, I have no doubt that there are large chunks of the community that think like you and don't agree with Holocaust denial being a crime-but I would guess that a slim majority support these laws-which is really why they are in place.
They were initially imposed by the allies and then voluntarily continued by Germans themselves. For types like you, its not enough to kill the jews-you have to blame them for the fact that some Germans might have later felt a bit remorseful.
In other words just because Germans have chosen to ban holocaust denial it doesnt mean Jews somehow owe it to people like you to not go on about the holocaust.
Jews have a long and well known history of not forgetting their persecutors-ever. thats their right.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by Rinorino2]

[edit on 2-10-2008 by Rinorino2]

[edit on 2-10-2008 by Rinorino2]



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by rufusdrak


Can someone please tell me why "denying the holocaust" is apparently illegal in Europe but denying God or the government or anything else is fine?



1..i think this law is ridiculous..it in itself is naziesque
2..why should denying the existence of poseiden or thor..or any of the other 10000 gods man has invented over the millenia be something we should frown upon?



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by alienesque
 


I suppose once a Nazi, always a Nazi. Or no doubt you suspect that some Jewish World Government imposes these laws on the poor terrified Germans.
Have you been to Germany lately-there are few groups on the planet as privileged.
Funny, the victors make the rules, yet you will rarely see a group of the defeated doing as well! Much of what German Jew-haters go on about Jews is really more applicable to themselves. Nothing is ever good enough. Its not enough for every family to own a merc and the entire Eastern Europe their own private brothel!

[edit on 2-10-2008 by Rinorino2]



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by Rinorino2
 


Also, in this case, Australia made it clear that it would not enact laws banning Holocaust denial and it would not charge Toben. This despite having , by any standard, a very prominent Jewish community-yet I don't see any 'backlash' there. Most Jews accepted if not respected Australia's reasons for not banning Holocaust denial (I think the argument was that this was appropriate in ex German occupied European nations, Australia having never been very anti-semitic and miles away from Germany did'nt need this sort of specific legislation)-I hardly see Australia being destroyed by some Jewish World Government.
Toben however insisted on testing Europes laws publicly.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by Rinorino2
 


In fact Australia is an interesting case to ponder on this whole topic, Jews have enjoyed the same rights that they have today from day one of white settlement. Britain was in fact deliberate in not imposing some forms of discrimination against Jews that still ocurred in Britain, in Australia and NZ.
There never has really been any anti-semitism in the country.
Yet in other ways Australia is looked up to by far-right whites, Australians still remain by and large politically incorrect and they still are suspicious of multiculutralism-yet even the recent far-right party 'one nation' made it clear it had nothing against Jews. What do neo-nazis say about this.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 10:37 AM
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posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by rufusdrak
reply to post by Rinorino2
 


I warned everyone in this thread to NOT go there. You are crossing the line sir, as this thread is not a debate about whether the holocaust occurred or not. For the record there are many people on this thread as we speak I am sure that can disprove your holocaust EASILY, so please do not even go there, if you really want to, then start another thread ABOUT that topic and I will be happy to CONTRIBUTE for you.



What about our free speech?What are you the thought police? Disprove 'our' Holocaust?Yeah go on then ,step up to the plate then and 'disprove' it.I dare ya ,I double dare ya..if it's so EASY it should'nt be a problem.But I'm sure it will come as a surprise to all the British soldiers that liberated Auschwitz .Maybe they were in on the scam as well.Maybe the Second World War never really happened either and Coventry Cathedral spontaneously combusted one night as did the East End of London.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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Here ,knock yourself out-(WARNING -contains scenes of Jewdity)





www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...



Oi!



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by candyfloss

Originally posted by rufusdrak
reply to post by Rinorino2
 


I warned everyone in this thread to NOT go there. You are crossing the line sir, as this thread is not a debate about whether the holocaust occurred or not. For the record there are many people on this thread as we speak I am sure that can disprove your holocaust EASILY, so please do not even go there, if you really want to, then start another thread ABOUT that topic and I will be happy to CONTRIBUTE for you.



What about our free speech?What are you the thought police? Disprove 'our' Holocaust?Yeah go on then ,step up to the plate then and 'disprove' it.I dare ya ,I double dare ya..if it's so EASY it should'nt be a problem.But I'm sure it will come as a surprise to all the British soldiers that liberated Auschwitz .Maybe they were in on the scam as well.Maybe the Second World War never really happened either and Coventry Cathedral spontaneously combusted one night as did the East End of London.



Hmm I love how everyone goes to the "Your a Nazi or Your a Bigot or Your an anti Semite" if you question the holocaust. I have some questions does anyone want to answer them?

First off there is no doubt in my mind the holocaust existed but here are my questions for all you people who think we need to eat up what our government says as reality.

Question 1. If the holocaust happened in Europe why did the Palestinian people lose THEIR land over it? Why wasnt their new country in Europe?

Quesion 2. Hitler did the mass killings I dont think we can doubt that but what about the people who funded Hitler? Why where the people who FUNDED Hitler never brought up on charges and sentenced to death? I guess that leads to well who funded Hitler?

Question 3. 60 million people died in WW2 6 million of them Jews. So why the focus on the Jews and their holocaust?

Question 4. Why is it if anyone questions the holocaust or asks questions like I ask they are labeled as an anti semite?

Can someone please answer those questions for me?



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


Anti-semite.











Mod Edit : Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 2-10-2008 by elevatedone]



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by xxpigxx
reply to post by rufusdrak
 


Out of sight out of mind?

soory for one line


Don't be.
To me, this is a perfect example of a one-liner that says it all.


I'll only add this: apparently (i.e. judging by the laws and the general atmosphere as reflected in the media - and, to be honest, in daily life), the secular state is in no danger. Christianity (or any other religion, for that matter, but predominantly Christianity, precisely because it is the cultural basis of most European societies) is supposed to be little more than a cultural thing - folklore, so to speak, with little philosophical relevance left.
(I could proceed to a dissertation about this point, but this is not the place, and I am - thankfully - much too busy right now to indulge in it.
)

Conversely, apparently there are many people - at least among those who tailor European laws - who suspect the citizens of the EU to be crypto- (or not so crypto-) Nazis...



P.S. Personally, I am very much opposed to any limitations of free speech.
Obviously, it doesn't mean that I like everything I hear.
In fact, there is very LITTLE that I do like.
But I do vehemently support the right of everyone to have the same freedom of expression that I claim for myself.










[edit on 2-10-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by Rinorino2
reply to post by rufusdrak
 


firstly, I think Holocaust denial laws cover all the groups involved (ie Gypsies, Gays).
Secondly where did you get your information that 'Jews' created the criteria? I think by and large the EU Justice dept did.


I totally understand that this is 100% speculation...

but - I really have to wonder if "Holocaust Denial" would be such a big issue if the only people that had been killed were gays or gypsies.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit
I have some questions does anyone want to answer them?

Question 1. If the holocaust happened in Europe why did the Palestinian people lose THEIR land over it? Why wasnt their new country in Europe?


Basic time line for those who can't understand anything in the world..

- Theodor Herzl: (May 2, 1860 – July 3, 1904) was an Austrian Jewish journalist who founded modern political Zionism. *

- The Zionist Federation (1899): is an umbrella organization for the Zionist movement in the United Kingdom, representing more than 120 organizations, and over 50,000 affiliated members.[1]
In 1917, the British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour communicated the Balfour Declaration to the leader of United Kingdom's Jewish community Lord Rothschild for transmission to the Zionist Federation.
en.wikipedia.org...

The result...

SWALLOWING lands and killing civilians until this very moment!


Originally posted by mybigunit
Quesion 2. Hitler did the mass killings I dont think we can doubt that but what about the people who funded Hitler? Why where the people who FUNDED Hitler never brought up on charges and sentenced to death? I guess that leads to well who funded Hitler?


Why were they never brought to justice? because there are the same people who fund wars to this day.. The Rothschilds!
en.wikipedia.org...


Originally posted by mybigunit
Question 3. 60 million people died in WW2 6 million of them Jews. So why the focus on the Jews and their holocaust?

It's like advertisement, marketing something through the media, books, seminars, arresting someone from time to time, etc.. and it works just fine!!


Originally posted by mybigunit
Question 4. Why is it if anyone questions the holocaust or asks questions like I ask they are labeled as an anti semite?

Because we all have been indoctrinated to understand that anti-semitism is not just hatred towards the jews, but that any sort of questioning to anything related to them (i.e the stolen land) is anti-semite..



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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I didn't do it!!!


Mod Edit :
Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 2-10-2008 by elevatedone]



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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We must share tales of the holocaust for we never forget the atrocities that happened that fateful day!

Today's sad holocaust tale comes from Manya and Major Kornblit.

Manya and major were teenage sweethearts when the Germans invaded. They were almost captured by the Nazi's, but they hid in a haystack that was 3 stories high. Good thing, because the Nazi's machine gunned everyone else.

But then they got hungry, so they went to work for the germans who had just finished machine gunning everyone in their town.

The Nazi's took Manya to the Auschwitz death camp. Manya heard people scream in the gas chambers. She can still hear them screaming.

Then the Nazi's needed laborers in Czechslovakia, so Manya volunteered. Lucky for her, because the Nazi's killed all the jews who saw the gas chambers, so they would remain a secret.

Miraculously, Major also survived the death camps. Manya and Major found one another in Poland. They had survived a combined 13 death camps.

Miraculously, Manya's brother also survived the death camps.

newsok.com...

[edit on 2-10-2008 by RealitySetsIn]

[edit on 2-10-2008 by RealitySetsIn]



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 02:58 PM
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So because I am a Catholic and my relatives are German and they were tossed in camps, I too can make any statements I would like? I do have some. Jews weren't the only people that were affected by this. So why is it that my family is not getting some land? Why is it that I cannot tell the stories my family has? Why shouldn't we be able to question the numbers given to us. Especially those of us that had family in those camps and some that never got out.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by RealitySetsIn
We must share tales of the holocaust for we never forget the atrocities that happened that fateful day!


what fateful day? The holocaust took place over a few years. I suppose that was just a quick typo.



newsok.com...


broken link...

Also, while doing some more research on this topic, I was startled (ok, not really) that the page on Wikipedia under "Holocaust Denial" has the subheader "Antisemitism" at the top right of the page, again insinuating that anyone who would dare question any of the events or provided info of the holocaust is antisemitic, or a bigot. Pretty crazy stuff.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by scientist


what fateful day? The holocaust took place over a few years. I suppose that was just a quick typo.


ye, typo sorry


Originally posted by scientist

Also, while doing some more research on this topic, I was startled (ok, not really) that the page on Wikipedia under "Holocaust Denial" has the subheader "Antisemitism" at the top right of the page, again insinuating that anyone who would dare question any of the events or provided info of the holocaust is antisemitic, or a bigot. Pretty crazy stuff.


i think its great. anyone who denys the atrocities that happened during the holocaust should be put to death. more than 6 million jews died. 6 MILLION.

how can you be so inhumane to deny 6 milliion deaths? if you are really that much of an animal, you aren't worth being alive.

(not you the poster I'm replying to, I mean you as in anyone)



[edit on 2-10-2008 by RealitySetsIn]




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