It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Holocaust Denier Arrested

page: 4
7
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 04:44 PM
link   
People are entitled to state their opinion as long as they make clear that it is their opinion.

It someone forgets to state that it is their opinion, then it becomes a statement, or assertion and could be construed as 'defamation'.

ADL .. Anti Defamation League



But, people have been encouraged to believe that if they criticise jews or do not believe the holocaust as propounded, then they will be arrested, jailed, etc.

Our contributor from Belgium has explained how the 'revisionist laws' were established, i.e. by powerful commercial jewish interests.

By the same token .. were our governments to react as aggressively and hysterically as the creators of the revisionist laws, we could be charged with 'denying the official 9/11 BS' .. i.e., for 'defaming' political liars.




posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 04:46 PM
link   
reply to post by Phatcat
 


See this is what I figured when I responded to someone before by stating that what appeared to have happened was that this individual, Toben, was publishing this information ELSEWHERE but he was just passing through London as a transit point and was picked up by this international police for being a internationally known holocaust denier.

So it appears that if I publish any 'holocaust revisions' here in the USA I am apparently eligible to be arrested in Europe if I even pass through there or go for a vacation.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 04:47 PM
link   
reply to post by rufusdrak
 



But jewishness is not an 'ethnicity' either .. as is made clear by Cassells', which specifically excludes judaism (and Christianity) within its definition of ethnicity.

Judaism is merely a religion therefore, similar to any other religion.

If jews wish to amend established definitions in order to create judaism as an 'ethnicity', then this must, of necessity, also apply to all and every OTHER religion.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 04:55 PM
link   
Someone had brought up the point that most of the "Holocaust Denial" laws are instituted in Europe and not America. And as someone else stated, Jews in the area are free to be Holocaust Deniers. I think the reason for the laws being there and not here, yet, are that over there, there are still people who remember how it really was and can attest to any falsehoods that might be uncovered. After all, the war was fought over there, not America. So as I see it, the ruling elite who are the ones that see to the passage of laws are more interested in silencing first hand whiteness's who are more inclined to be found in the effected countries.

If you wanted to silence the whiteness's of the civil war in the United States, you would pass laws in the United States "Civil War Deniers", these laws would not apply to Europeans.

Anyone who is sincerely interested in learning more about this subject should read up on a American Jew who went public, Benjamin Freedman. Before you do I should warn you, Ben lets the Jews have it in his summations. The only problem with his position is that he himself does not understand the true political hierarchy involved with this enslaved religion.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 04:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by Dock6
reply to post by rufusdrak
 



But jewishness is not an 'ethnicity' either .. as is made clear by Cassells', which specifically excludes judaism (and Christianity) within its definition of ethnicity.

Judaism is merely a religion therefore, similar to any other religion.

If jews wish to amend established definitions in order to create judaism as an 'ethnicity', then this must, of necessity, also apply to all and every OTHER religion.


Well that was one source, I can link you multiple sources that DO qualify Jewishness as an ethnicity. It's quite a controversial topic and a cursory search of it on google brings up long diatribes and explanations defending BOTH sides. I personally would rather NOT call it an ethnicity but I could possibly see how they could lay a claim to it and christians can't in the sense that ethnicity could be described as a cultural identiy formed by a group of people that inhabit the same area(s) and migrate together etc, under which description Jews historically do seem to fall whereas something like Christianity spread far more diversely all over the world and everyone and their mother was converted so they can't really call themselves 'ethnic' christians.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 04:59 PM
link   
reply to post by All Seeing Eye
 


That is a really interesting theory All Seeing Eye. I think you are definitely on to something.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 05:21 PM
link   
reply to post by All Seeing Eye
 


Star for you good man. I agree with that completely.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 05:29 PM
link   
The point that I don't get....even after all this conversation is...

How can someone be charged with a lie, if the lie was not in a court of law???

If I lie to someone, am directly causing them harm? Or are they just too dumb to figure out the truth themselves?



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 05:56 PM
link   
From the Australian ADL site,

Link


On a Federal level, the Racial Discrimination Act 1975 (Cth) deals with racial hatred. It prohibits words and acts that are likely to insult, offend intimidate or humiliate a person or group on the basis of their race, colour, national or ethnic origin.

Mod Edit: (visit link for more)

The Daily Mail says about the story:



www.dailymail.co.uk...

He is accused of publishing material on the internet 'of an anti-Semitic and/or revisionist nature' that denies, approves of or plays down the mass murder of millions of Jews at the hands of the Nazis during the Second World War.
...
Toben openly refuses to accept the opinions put forward by mainstream historians that the Holocaust ever occurred - he says the mass killings took place on a much smaller scale.


Wow, so you can't deny that it happened, approve of it or play down the numbers.

So I guess all of this is illegal?:

"I'm glad the holocaust happened"
"The Holocaust never happened"
"Only 2 million Jews died in the Holocaust"
"There weren't near as many gas chambers as reported"

4 counts of aggravated defamation.

This is his website address: www.adelaideinstitute.org...

Oh boy, just imagine:



ATS is accused of publishing material on the internet 'of an anti-American and/or revisionist nature' that denies, approves of or plays down the mass murder of thousands of American Citizens at the hands of terrorists during 9/11.
...
Members openly refuses to accept the opinions put forward by government agencies that 9/11 occurred the way described in official reports - members say the attacks took place in part because of government involvement to fabricate an excuse to go to war in the middle east.


====
Mod Edit: Link added, large quote snipped.

[edit on 2/10/2008 by Badge01]



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 06:15 PM
link   
The Holocaust happened.

Its as simple as that, you can deny it, and it is in your natural rights to if you want. Arresting him for denying the holocaust is fine, do it, but arrest the thousands of others who have denied it too.


Hmmm?

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Arrest him when he visits the EU, see what would happen.

What the hell is all I have to say.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 06:28 PM
link   
reply to post by logician magician
 


Star for you. So true it's hilarious. So basically those laws you quoted define Jews as an ethnic group despite as someone quoted previously certain sources like dictionaries explicitly defining them as NOT an ethnicity.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 06:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by truth_seeker3
The Holocaust happened.


Thank you for sharing your opinion.


P.S. You can't arrest Ahmedinejad due to diplomatic immunity, otherwise Bush would have probably been arrested LONG ago in many of the various countries he visits.

[edit on 1-10-2008 by rufusdrak]


[edit on 1-10-2008 by rufusdrak]



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 06:45 PM
link   
Has this person ever been to Germany? How is he able to be arrested in England?

There was another fellow who published books etc and told a group of students his views way back in the 70s or something, and they arrested him on an old search warrent.

But this new guy doesn't seem to have been to Germany, he seems to have just said a few things on the internet.

Does this mean that Germany can imprison anyone for saying something anywhere in the world that they don't agree with?



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 06:58 PM
link   
reply to post by rufusdrak
 


Sorry, I was being a bit flat out,
, just a little angered.

I understand their argument, but personally, I have seen too much not to believe.

Diplomatic Immunity. Were going to wishing we arrested him in about a year once they nuke Israel....



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 07:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by truth_seeker3
The Holocaust happened.

Its as simple as that, you can deny it, and it is in your natural rights to if you want. Arresting him for denying the holocaust is fine, do it, but arrest the thousands of others who have denied it too.


Hmmm?

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Arrest him when he visits the EU, see what would happen.

What the hell is all I have to say.


I don't think the argument is about the Holocaust happening, it did, no doubt, the problem is that it may have not been as extensive or "Jew" orientated as the prevailing history writes it. The problem with this law is that it is intended to keep people from researching WWII and its ramifications.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 07:15 PM
link   
Psst.

Antisemite
n. opponent of Jews. antisemitic, a. antisemitism, n.

Semite
Any of the peoples of the Middle East originally speaking a Semitic language, and traditionally said to be descended from Shem, a son of Noah in the Bible. Ancient Semitic peoples include the Hebrews, Ammonites, Moabites, Edomites, Babylonians, Assyrians, Chaldaeans, Phoenicians, and Canaanites. The Semitic peoples founded the monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
© From the Hutchinson Encyclopaedia

LOL
Whut???

Sorry, Been drinking a tad and couldn't help it, but if it "clarifys" anything.. and as absurd as it sounds, that's where your "race" card comes from...

(and... yes, I know. A common linguistic base doesn't make a race either)



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 07:56 PM
link   
As a proud, strong, Patriotic American Jew; I never thought I'd see flat out antisemitism like the kind I read from you guys(ATS posters). It's astounding really. This whole dillusion you all have about the "Elite Jews" running the media, the banks and so on is laughable at best and downright evil at worst. Here's the thing, I can go on justifying myself to you but that would only feed your ignorance and stupidity. It is illegal in Germany (and possibly other european countries) to deny the Holocaust because they all personally know what happened, the government decided in order to deal with collective guilt, they will keep nazism from resurfacing. Like "truth_seeker" I will tell you that the Holocaust happened, whether your infantile demented brains comprehend the issue or not. What you share in common with pre-nazi germans, eternal russians and other slavic nations is that you love to see the good guy lose. It's like a pathological disease among gentiles. You wonder why Jews are at the top of every military and financial structure in the US, it's because in America the most skilled worker gets the job. Seeing as Jews have (way) above average IQ and cognitive skills we excel in every possible field. That is why the so called "conspiracy" exists. We are the leaders of the world but not because of some collective conspiracy agenda but purely because we win when we compete against gentiles. No one boos the underdog(you) but loves to see the favorite go down.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 08:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by truth_seeker3
reply to post by rufusdrak
 


Sorry, I was being a bit flat out,
, just a little angered.

I understand their argument, but personally, I have seen too much not to believe.

Diplomatic Immunity. Were going to wishing we arrested him in about a year once they nuke Israel....


Damn where's the emoticon for me rolling around hysterically on the floor laughing??


You actually think there's a bigger chance that Iran will nuke Israel than Israel nuking Iran?




posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 08:13 PM
link   
reply to post by Absence of Self
 


Great point. Khazaria is not listed, and descendent's can not be considered "Semite", in the strictest sense of the word. Gaining a religion with its roots from Semite lands does not make you Semite. Christianity also had its roots in the middle east, shall I too, consider myself Semite?

en.wikipedia.org...

It appears there were great battles between the Khazars and Muslims. And I believe the debate should be reopened as to who was expanding their territories, the Khazars or Muslims.

Today we see the descendent's of Khazaria ruling modern day Israel, and the modern day Muslim as the Palestinians. Who is attempting once again, to expand their territory?



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 08:16 PM
link   
If these laws exist, as they do in my country, then there should be laws about denial of the 1 million iraqi dead during the present war, another 1 million dead iraqi children from sanctions before the war, and why not throw in a million dead vietnamese. I'm half way to that magical number of 6 million. I guess the nazis at this point are only twice as bad as the americans. Get it....These laws are dumb.







 
7
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join