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I have faith, therefore, I have less pain:Scientists discover brain area linked to pain resistance d

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posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 10:03 AM
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I have faith, therefore, I have less pain:Scientists discover brain area linked to pain resistance during religious experiences


www.reuters.com

Although changes in pain sensitivity during a religious experience are well documented, the exact psychological or/and neurological reasons of the phenomenon are unclear and, as such, have now become the aim of an investigation by a group of scientists, philosophers and psychologists from the University of Oxford.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 10:03 AM
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As I've often observed over the years, those who exercise Faith have a higher pain threshold, a better ability to cope and are healthier than atheists. But common sense would tell you that.

All humans brains contain a so-called "God Circuit" — an area of the cerebrum that appears most active during spiritual reflection, meditation, ecstatic religious experience and so forth. Accordingly, those who consciously choose to suppress their spiritual or "superstitious" inclinations have far, far less activity in the "God Circuit"... essentially, they're refusing to use this area of their brains.

Now researchers are confirming what I've said all along: When you consciously choose not to exercise Faith, you're shutting off a portion of your brain — a portion of your brain that controls very real, very positive, and very measurable physiological effects.

— Doc Velocity

www.reuters.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 10:37 AM
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This has very little to do with faith, and everything to do with what we've always called mind over body.

Faith is a tactic to trigger mind over body... however, there are way more ways to trigger this than just that.

I get the same effect from simply telling myself I'm not actually sick. You'd be surprised just how well that works.

But attempting to claim there's some "god Circuit" which there is not, and has never been evidence of... it's just doesn't make sense. Especially when we know all they're talking about is the well known and well documented mind over body trick.


The Chinese tend to call it Chi.
They are able to take incredible amounts of pain and ignore major illnesses, by simply convincing themselves the pain is not really there... or that they aren't really sick at all.

The Greeks had a form of this.

Heck... if I were to go through every culture in history, I'd likely turn up hundreds of thousands of examples of intentional use of mind over body.

It's not a "god circuit", that's just a convenient name the religious are giving this to steal fame for something mankind has known of and used for thousands of years.


And stealing fame, in my opinion is selfish, ignorant, and pretty abhorrent on all accounts.



I've studied methods to do the same thing... I can convince my body that pain is in fact pleasure. That the illness that's draining my energy isn't actually there, which restores the energy I need to continue as normal.

Mind over body works on so many levels.

Faith may be one of thousands of ways to manipulate mind over body...
mostly because in order to use mind over body, you have to become ignorant to some of the sensory feedback your body is giving you.
Faith is blind, and you have to be completely devoid of allot of feedback in order to have pure faith... hence, if you can be ignorant to some of your problems, praying they go away, it's no stretch of the imagination to see people doing the same with the sensory feedback their body is giving.

The problem with this is... while most problems and pain are only minor, and ignoring them works... critical problems and illness is often ignored accidentally, with the subject choosing to continue meditating or praying, instead of actually addressing the problem itself.
I've seen many examples of this... and quite frankly, it's suicidal.

But there are other ways, some way more effective than faith, for manipulating a mind over body effect.

I think the Chinese had the best one.


...but it is NOT exclusive to religion!

[edit on 1-10-2008 by johnsky]



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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I have to agree with johnsky (star btw).

I don't believe in any "Commercial God" I have faith in my bodies ability to keep me healthy. I honestly believe I don't get sick more than one day a year...and I haven't in lots of years. I intentionally try and get my wifes common ailments (as shes always sick) and it does nothing but annoy her.

The mind is a powerful thing...if you truly believe it!!

Side note: Age is another part of this, I believe I will look young for a long time..I'm very close to 40 and people that don't know me guess I'm in my mid twenties, and I get carded more often than not. Why? Because I believe it, nothing can change that.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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It has nothing to do with faith but believes in oneself that more often than not is linked to spirituality, be of a religious matter or other.

I am one of those that are considered with a high tress hold for pain plus I am a fast healer.

In other words I am a fast healer with high tolerance to pain.

Guess what I am not a follower of organized religion but I do believe in the power of the mind, spirit and body.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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"Faith have a higher pain threshold, a better ability to cope and are healthier than atheists. But common sense would tell you that. "

What do you mean common sence would tell you they are healthier? A strong indicator of the health of populations is height, which is generally increased by improving nutrition and health care, and is also influenced by the standard of living and quality of life.

Well the top countries in life quality and height are the nordic countries of norway, denmark, sweden and in that area of the world. And those countries are just about totaly atheist. So how come you say they are unhealthy? They are mentaly and physically QUITE healthy there. Even if they get sick, there's free healthcare-system in Norway:

uk.youtube.com...
(Michael Moore - Sicko)



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Daniem
What do you mean common sence would tell you they are healthier?

Exactly what I said. By refusing to exercise areas of the brain that have evolved quite naturally, atheists are engaging in abnormal behavior — i.e. they're not using their brains. And just the fact that atheists leap for the throat of anyone who challenges them is ample evidence that they have lower tolerance for conflict and a lower ability to cope. That's unhealthy.


Originally posted by Daniem
A strong indicator of the health of populations is height....

Pure nonsense. Many of the tallest people on earth reside in sub-Saharan Africa, an area renowned for poor health and poor nutrition.


Originally posted by Daniem
Well the top countries in life quality and height are the nordic countries of norway, denmark, sweden and in that area of the world. And those countries are just about totaly atheist.

Again, pure nonsense. There are no countries that are "just about totally atheist." None. Atheists comprise a minority in every culture on Earth. I know many people from Norway and Sweden, all Catholic, and all of average height. Are you going to start preaching about the Aryan Race next?

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 10/1/2008 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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I fail to see how making a logical conclusion is refusing to use part of your brain.

Come on, you know better than to make these assumptions, Doc.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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Just flogging the atheists for their sins, you know. It's a dirty job, but one that I approach with verve and mirth.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 10/1/2008 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Exactly what I said. By refusing to exercise areas of the brain that have evolved quite naturally, atheists are engaging in abnormal behavior — i.e. they're not using their brains. And just the fact that atheists leap for the throat of anyone who challenges them is ample evidence that they have lower tolerance for conflict and a lower ability to cope. That's unhealthy.


You know something else that's indicative of a low tolerance for conflict? Passive aggressiveness.

It seems you have also chosen to omit some relative information that you found less convenient.



Nevertheless, the researchers point that other experiments have reported that “pleasant” images can affect pain threshold so this effect is not exclusive of religion.


I know this to be very true, I suffer from frequent migraines and I can decrease the pain quite noticeably by thinking about attractive women


Here is the conclusion to a study of Adolescents with generalized anxiety disorder. It shows that the same area of the brain is activated, what you call the "God Circuit", when these young men were shown photos of angry/threatening looking people. Looks more like your study proves religious people are so scared stupid of their God, it detracts them from the pain they're experiencing. Sort of like stubbing your toe so you punch the desk




CONCLUSIONS: Adolescents with generalized anxiety disorder show greater right ventrolateral prefrontal cortex activation and attentional bias away from angry faces than healthy adolescents. Among patients, increased ventrolateral prefrontal cortex activation is associated with less severe anxiety, suggesting that this activation may serve as a compensatory response. Source


Now you see, if I were you, desperately reaching for absolutely anything in that study that appears to backup my conclusions; I would try to limit the scope of my data to only support my narrow perspective. Like you, taking all that information, omitting everything that doesn't fit the argument, summarizing the small amount that does, using definite and uncertain terms and finally forming false conclusions based on the reinterpreted and misrepresented summarized data.

Clearly my own purposely narrow interpretation of the data would be just as incorrect as yours is.
The real answer becomes exceedingly clear if you research what exactly the ventrolateral prefrontal cortex does and what role it plays in us making connections between the physical world and the psychological framework of our minds.



One particularly notable theory of VMPFC function is the somatic marker hypothesis, accredited to António Damásio. By this hypothesis, the VMPFC has a central role in adapting somatic markers - emotional associations, or associations between mental objects and visceral (bodily) feedback - for use in natural decision making. This account also gives the VMPFC a role in moderating emotions and emotional reactions. Source


To a religious individual, mental imagery of things related to God induce feelings of happiness, security and contentment. As an atheist, the same emotional state of mind can be brought about using mental imagery of Jessica Alba in a thong. The association between the physical stimulus of being shocked and the blissful mental state produced by whatever sort of imagery the participant finds personally enjoyable is made in the ventromedial prefrontal cortex.

Thus methodical and fact based science once again exposes theological wishful thinking.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by ANoNyMiKE
[It seems you have also chosen to omit some relative information that you found less convenient.


I omitted nothing. I'm the original poster of this thread, and the very first post contains a link to the news story for anyone to read. Apparently you used that link. So how have I omitted anything? Or do you think I'm somehow censoring this story?

It's always interesting — and entirely predictable — to observe the atheist reaction to anything even remotely positive about religion or the religious experience. Their first reaction is always to kill the messenger.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


HAHAHAHA Sounds like your just trying to rile us Atheists up, I'm not the one who needs the crutch of a Super Being steering my life in the right direction (of course with a little prayer).

I'll put my pain threshold up against yours any day of the week.

Hey Doc I believe those that need the "Religous Crutch" are the ones engaging in the abnormal behavior...



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


1)
They feel less pain because they give positive meaning to a noxious experience, and so making it much easier to cope with. But this doesnt mean atheists feel more pain. If an atheist give meaning to something they will also feel less pain.


2)
Since the japanese (buddhists live longer and healthier than others, its wrong to say that atheists "dont use their brain" and are unhealthier.

"atheists leap for the throat of anyone who challenges them is ample evidence that they have lower tolerance for conflict and a lower ability to cope"

-I thought buddhists were peaceful. Are you saying that christians doesnt leap for peoples throat? Cause i can point you to a few (thousand) videos, and maybe a historic event or ten.


3)
The average height of africans is not much at all much.. as far as i can see) in fact it is lower than japan. (and how many tall japs do you know?) The fact that there exists some abnomalities some places is to be expected. (Growth disorder etc)



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity
As I've often observed over the years, those who exercise Faith have a higher pain threshold, a better ability to cope and are healthier than atheists. But common sense would tell you that.

All humans brains contain a so-called "God Circuit" — an area of the cerebrum that appears most active during spiritual reflection, meditation, ecstatic religious experience and so forth. Accordingly, those who consciously choose to suppress their spiritual or "superstitious" inclinations have far, far less activity in the "God Circuit"... essentially, they're refusing to use this area of their brains.
— Doc Velocity



It's a very interesting study, with great potential to help in pain management. But the blog entry about the study that you link to doesn't say anything about a "God Circuit" that I could find, nor does it suggest that people "who exercises Faith have a higher pain threshold, a better ability to cope and are healthier than atheists." Did you have a separate source for those assertions, or is that just your own observation and common sense?

All I can conclude from the study is that devout Catholics experience less pain when shown a picture of the Virgin Mary than when shown a very similar picture of someone else. An interesting experiment would be to repeat the study, but show the atheists a picture of Jessica Alba in a bikini (none for me, thanks).

Even if Jessica Alba doesn't do it, there could be any number of ways to activate the VLPFC -- and the study gives no reason to think that Virgin Mary-activation works any better than any other form of VLPFC-activation.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 11:15 PM
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I just realized that this is satire.



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