October 1. Please Post Here if You See Our Troops in the USA.

I dunno, I wasn't there. I know 82nd didn't have weapons and some of them were pissed because they actually WERE getting fired on when they tried to stop looting and didn't have the means, let alone the ROE, to fire back and teach some random kids that they aren't going to win a fire fight with someone actually trained.

Yes I see them. Of course, I work on an Army base too. I see them at church, Walmart, Pizza hut, and everywhere I go downtown. Funny thing, they look just like you and me. People with families, kids, searching for a better life, believeing in God etc. The US military is not our enemy, they are our families and friends, kids you go to school with, your city council, the Walgreen managers, the homeless, the forgotten. Stop treating everyone as evil because they wear a uniform. Policeman, Doctors, Military, Coast Guard, they are here to serve the people. When you alienate them, your denying the people who have died to save this country. You know, they one where you have the right to burn flags and call them evil? They are PEOPLE just like us, not monsters. Instead of hating your brothers, try loving one another - it's good for the soul.

reply to post by Night Watchman

I hope there are not impressionable young people reading your words and panicking because you, someone who has been on the Earth for sometime (as have I) and should know better, is telling them that their govt is about to turn the country's military forces against them.

No, you'd rather tell the impressionable young people reading that everything is hunky doory. Just like you painted your lifes story of luck and love, as an answer to the "paranoia".

Keep dreaming. The real world isn't like that anymore.

The day a president has troops ready for active duty on domestic soil, to be deployed at will, the country has been reduced to a third world police state.


The fact that you are older and should know better is, off course a logical fallacy.

The only thing it means to me, is that you gathered more disinfo in your life.

As for dgtempe, she was a bit out of line, with her flaming comment.

Calm down DG, whatever happens, happens, you saw this comming a long time ago.







[edit on 4/10/08 by enigmania]

Funny post. The world was never 'like that', for one. Secondly, this article that you and so many others have misunderstood does nothing towards making the US a third world nation.

I understand it must be disappointing for D-Day to come and go without anything happening, but- like so many other pieces of information- the conspiracy theorists simply weren't right...again.

reply to post by SuperViking


I don't think anyone was really saying October 1 was D-Day, thus it couldn't have come and gone. I think we have some time to wait still

reply to post by SuperViking


I agree the premise of this thread is not directly related to the article. that's not the point.

Situations like this are exactly what your founding fathers warned for, and made laws against.

Jeez, I'm not even American and I'm more of a Patriot then you guys. This whole thing is just so wrong.

Not concerning this, you don't. That unit is sitting at Fort Stewart right now just as there are units at Forts Carson, or Lewis, or Hood, or Riley, or whatever, just as they have for decades upon decades. The only difference is that now this unit has been officially designated as the unit that will respond to any event in North America, instead of rushing to find one that wasn't busy. That's all that article was about.

But conspiracy people can fit any information into their twisted worldview, so it should come as no surprise they could do it to this, too.

reply to post by SuperViking


See, you just don't get it.

Never, ever before in the history of the USA, has it been legal to have troops on active duty for deployment on domestic soil.

And now it is, to be deployed at will by Georgie, for whatever reason he desires.

This is a precedent being set here, and the fact that you can't even understand that, is the reason you're in this mess.

Originally posted by enigmania
reply to post by SuperViking

 

See, you just don't get it.

Oh no, I think I do.

Never, ever before in the history of the USA, has it been legal to have troops on active duty for deployment on domestic soil.

Let's break that down.

First, it was legal before the Civil War, which was like 140 years ago, so let's not use 'never, ever" because that's just plain wrong (again). For over a third of the history of the US, it HAS been legal. Moving on...

What does "for deployment" mean? Has it been legal to deploy troops on domestic soil? It certainly has, you need look no farther than things such as Katrina, or any place where the Army Corps of Engineers has built something (virtually everywhere). So what does "for deployment" mean? They're not even deployed.

They're on standby in case of another Katrina or terrorist attack, or tornado that decimates a town like it did in Kansas a few years ago (Kansas, by the way, did not have the resources to clean and rehab the place in any decent amount of time because most of it's NA was deployed to Iraq- this brigade would fill that role).

So basically, you're wrong. This unit is covering down for any NA unit that may not be available, or ready to respond to any catastrophe that occurs. It's not deploying inside the US, as this thread's OP and many others in it believe. They're just plain wrong.

And now it is, to be deployed at will by Georgie, for whatever reason he desires.

For any will that he desires? Really? Do you not know posse comitatus (and how the John Warner Act didn't change it in any appreciable way) or are you just playing ignorant?

This is a precedent being set here, and the fact that you can't even understand that, is the reason you're in this mess.

No, there's not a precedent being set here, but the fact that you are desperately looking for conspiracies and believe that there is one being set is the reason why you look so foolish.

So.. let me get this right. It's now being labeled a conspiracy that ..

Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks. It is not the first time an active-duty unit has been tapped to help at home. In August 2005, for example, when Hurricane Katrina unleashed hell in Mississippi and Louisiana, several active-duty units were pulled from various posts and mobilized to those areas. But this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities.

Link

Is in fact NOT in violation of this?

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 16, 1878 after the end of Reconstruction. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (the Army, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement police or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states, their counties and municipal divisions) in the former Confederate states.

Link

Uh well.. last time I checked it is..

Considering the army times article says it's not like any one before, SuperViking, labeling this a conspiracy is an outright lie. The conspiracy may be that they will be used against us in some sort of revolution-type thing, but it's a reasonable one as one cannot predict the future but we can use the resources around us to have a pretty good guess.

Quoted from SuperViking - "Not concerning this, you don't. That unit is sitting at Fort Stewart right now just as there are units at Forts Carson, or Lewis, or Hood, or Riley, or whatever, just as they have for decades upon decades. The only difference is that now this unit has been officially designated as the unit that will respond to any event in North America, instead of rushing to find one that wasn't busy. That's all that article was about.

But conspiracy people can fit any information into their twisted worldview, so it should come as no surprise they could do it to this, too."

It isn't foolish to question the intentions of ones government.

Originally posted by Boogley
So.. let me get this right. It's now being labeled a conspiracy that ..

Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks. It is not the first time an active-duty unit has been tapped to help at home. In August 2005, for example, when Hurricane Katrina unleashed hell in Mississippi and Louisiana, several active-duty units were pulled from various posts and mobilized to those areas. But this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities.

Link

Is in fact NOT in violation of this?

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 16, 1878 after the end of Reconstruction. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (the Army, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement police or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states, their counties and municipal divisions) in the former Confederate states.

Link

Uh well.. last time I checked it is..

You should probably check again, because there are certain criteria that can be met to allow for it, especially when State National Guard forces are overseas and a regular army unit is available in the area.

Considering the army times article says it's not like any one before, SuperViking, labeling this a conspiracy is an outright lie.

No, it's a conspiracy. Do you know that every summer for decades now, units on the west coast have been tabbed (ahead of time, usually) to help fight the wildfires that always occur there? OMG GOVMENTS GUNNA GIT US!!!

The conspiracy may be that they will be used against us in some sort of revolution-type thing, but it's a reasonable one as one cannot predict the future but we can use the resources around us to have a pretty good guess.

You and I have very differing definitions of "reasonable" then.

It isn't foolish to question the intentions of ones government.

It's foolish to, having very little information and experience on the subject, interpret a small piece of information to fit a preconceived world view. Very foolish.

reply to post by SuperViking


Ok, so it hasn't been legal since the Civil War. The point still stands.

What does "for deployment" mean? Has it been legal to deploy troops on domestic soil? It certainly has, you need look no farther than things such as Katrina, or any place where the Army Corps of Engineers has built something (virtually everywhere). So what does "for deployment" mean? They're not even deployed.

Those deployments were not dedicated assignments.

Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command

But this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom,

They're not deployed right now, there just always ready to be.

After 1st BCT finishes its dwell-time mission, expectations are that another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that the mission will be a permanent one.

So, after this precedent has been set, you're looking at a permanent homeland mission.

Congratulations.

I'm posting this anonymously, (I'm not on my puter'). I live near Langley AFB. practically next door in the flight line. Since Thursday there has beena remarkable amount of air traffic. I've lived near here my entire life and can tell you, I have never seen this kind of activity. Mostly exercises (Whch they normally announce in the paper, but not this time). So, this morning, I went out and had my morning coffee and that's whent he helicopter's started. One right after the other. these were the big transport type helicopters. I started counting them. From 9 am to just about an hour ago., I've counted about 26! Something is going on. I'm not sure but this kind of activity is not normal. Even during the Gulf war, I did not see this much activity. I should note that Langley is the AFB's "Premier" base. SAC and TAC. I also live near Ft. Eustis which I have some connections to via relatives and am curious about activity there as well. It's the Transporatation hub for this part of the East Coast.

I'm a bit worried now. Normally I'm pretty level headed (Military brat), but this has me concerned.

Originally posted by enigmania
reply to post by SuperViking

 

Ok, so it hasn't been legal since the Civil War. The point still stands.

Your point stands, but to act as if it goes against everything "holy" about the Constitution (not sure why people love it like the Bible anyway) or the spirit of America isn't really true. It's barely been illegal longer than it's been legal.

Those deployments were not dedicated assignments.

Nor is this, because it's not a deployment, period. If an earthquake or hurricane or Mexico attacks or something, they would be deployed and then they still wouldn't be 'dedicated', they'd only be there until it was over. It's the same thing, except now they've actually said which unit will respond instead of deciding on the spot. That's what changed.

I'll type it again, because that's what's crucial- this is the only difference: Now they've actually said which unit will respond instead of deciding on the spot.

They're not deployed right now, there just always ready to be.

"Always" until they have absolutely anything else to do, like a deployment to Afghanistan, Iraq, Horn of Africa, a rotation to JRTC, NTC, etc etc. Some other unit will fill in then- does it make you upset that from now on there will be a unit that knows it's up for disaster relief instead of everyone finding out a day or two before they have to go? I don't see why.

So, after this precedent has been set, you're looking at a permanent homeland mission.

No, you're looking at, at all times, some unit knowing it will be the responding unit.

Congratulations are in order for prior planning. Remember your 5 Ps, now: Prior planning prevents poor performance!

Where exactly do you begin assuming that I have very little information and experience? As for being foolish, you are doing the same thing only interpreting it to your point of view the general "other side" of it. You shouldn't go around throwing insults and expect to get very far.

There are a number of situations in which the Act does not apply. These include:
* National Guard units while under the authority of the governor of a state;
* Troops used under the order of the President of the United States pursuant to the Insurrection Act, as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles Riots.
* Under 18 U.S.C. § 831, the Attorney General may request that the Secretary of Defense provide emergency assistance if civilian law enforcement is inadequate to address certain types of threat involving the release of nuclear materials, such as potential use of a nuclear or radiological weapon. Such assistance may be by any personnel under the authority of the Department of Defense, provided such assistance does not adversely affect U.S. military preparedness.

So.. I guess I'm to assume that the state law enforcement is dropping to such dramatic lows that we now need brigades to do their work? I'm sorry my friend, that's not even a question to me.

No, this is of another nature.

Homeland security

In early 2006, the 109th Congress passed a bill containing controversial provisions that granted the President additional rights to use federal or state National Guard Troops inside the United States in emergency situations. These changes were included in the John Warner Defense Appropriation Act for Fiscal Year 2007 (H.R. 5122.ENR).

These changes were repealed in their entirety in 2008, except for the provisions of the Presidential signing statement which retained any powers, the repeal of which, the president may determine to be unconstitutional.

On September 30, 2008 the US Army announced that the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team (BCT) will be under the day-to-day control of US Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command (NORTHCOM), as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.

This marks the first time an active US Army unit will be given a dedicated assignment to NORTHCOM, where it is stated they may be "called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive (CBRNE) attack." These soldiers will also learn how to use non-lethal weapons designed to "subdue unruly or dangerous individuals" without killing them, and also includes equipment to stand up a hasty road block; spike strips for slowing, stopping or controlling traffic; shields and batons; and, beanbag bullets[2].

This also demonstrates the President's full intentions of utilizing federal troops for missions within the United States, essentially eliminating any recognition of Posse Comitatus.

I guess you can place the conspiracy on the right or wrong if you know that the only way this can be done is by the power of the President. So there in - he's the only one that can call on it provides AMPLE reason for the people to want to know why.

Wiki - I'm lazy atm.

I give up. I should've known better than to try to enlighten a conspiracy theory messageboard anyway. Keep repeating the same ----, over and over, and ignoring anything that doesn't jibe. Incredible. Simply incredible.

KEEP LOOKING AND POST IF YOU SEE OUR TROOPS IN THE USA GUYZ

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.
Please do not post in all caps.

[edit on 7/10/2008 by watch_the_rocks]

i saw a humvee and a truck full of soldiers in full "battle gear" or what ever its called on the day before the 1st actually in my friends area...theres no bases around for a good 80 miles in that area i didnt see any weapons on them but i didnt know what the hell they were doing there

this was in a rural-ish area called excelsior springs in kansas city

Very interesting thread indeed! I noticed approximatly 12 M1 Abram tanks on rail cars in Salt Lake city yesterday afternoon. Now this is very unusual based on the fact that they didnt have any unit markings on them either. So thare are either being refitted somewhere or destined for staging here. Whats odd is that Utah has no armor units here save for the Utah Army National Guard 222nd Artillary down in southern Utah.

No, you'd rather tell the impressionable young people reading that everything is hunky doory. Just like you painted your lifes story of luck and love, as an answer to the "paranoia".

Keep dreaming. The real world isn't like that anymore.

The day a president has troops ready for active duty on domestic soil, to be deployed at will, the country has been reduced to a third world police state.


The fact that you are older and should know better is, off course a logical fallacy.

The only thing it means to me, is that you gathered more disinfo in your life.


[edit on 4/10/08 by enigmania]

How is the world exactly per your view? Is the world a place where you continue to spew "facts," that are anything but? How may times does this "readying troops for American soil," nonsense have to be debunked before you stop repeating it? Look around this site...there are many posts explaining that what you are referring to is really nothing new.

And please, I don't need to be lectured about disinformation from someone who wouldn't know a fact if his life depended on it. You seem to think any rumor that supports your nonsensical and childish worldview is a fact.

Grownups don't act in this way. They hear the rumors and think them through, do research on them and then decide whether the rumor is fact, fiction, or a rumor that deserves further consideration.

What they don't do is to portray rumor as fact. Children do that.

Still no martial law?
Still no round up of innocent civilians for work camps/slave labour on a death star?
I can hardly believe this.

It's not like Dgtempe to just blurt out paranoid claims!

Somethings up, something is...up.


Still no Canadian troop movements.
I'll continue to keep you all posted.
God be with us in these trying times.