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Potential Russian Launch Base in Cuba

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posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 05:24 PM
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Potential Russian Launch Base in Cuba


www.defensetech.org

As the Russian government reacts to American anger over Russian intervention in Georgia, the continuing expansion of NATO, and U.S. plans to install ballistic missile defense systems in Eastern Europe, a non-military satellite launch installation in Cuba could be considered a valid action by the Moscow regime. Of more concern to American leaders should be the arms sales to Venezuela, especially the expected sale of up to five advanced diesel-electric submarines of the Project 877EKM or Varshavyanka series, known in the West as the improved Kilo class.

These submarines and other arms sales -- and joint Russian-indigenous weapon programs -- will enhance Russia's influence and access to resources in South America. And that situation could greatly harm U.S. interests.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 05:24 PM
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Potential means probable and capable.

Russians putting nukes there will mean the Cold War again, a war of attrition. Oh well, I guess the Russians are somewhat justified due to the missile defense system and U.S. bases worldwide. Scary yes, but it's a form of quiet warfare, harmless due to the fact that nations know too well to not use nuclear weapons for the sake of humanity.

I guess it's a chance for the Western media to use this as propaganda against communism and Russia.

www.defensetech.org
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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Where did you get 'Russia putting nukes in Cuba' from 'a non-military satellite launch installation in Cuba'?

The article even states:


While some Americans will see a satellite launch facility in Cuba as a "cover" for the possible use of such launch stands for military missiles, that concern is a non-starter. U.S. satellite surveillance and the presence of numerous American technicians and businessmen in Cuba, as well as visiting educational groups, would make such a clandestine effort impossible.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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I hope BayOfPigsV2.0 goes over well this time.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by Chris McGee
 


Why would Russia place a nonmilitary satellite launcher in Cuba instead of Russia? Would this have been news if people did not worry about possible nuclear missile launch sites? I believe this action is used to balance out the advantages and disadvantages between Russia and the U.S.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day
Why would Russia place a nonmilitary satellite launcher in Cuba instead of Russia?


Because geographical location plays a major role in space launches. Orbital launches are easiest (require least energy) closer to the equator, in part due to earth's rotational velocity.

Russian territory is considerably far from the equator, and the southernmost Russia - in the Caucasus Region - cannot be used for launch station due to mountains and rugged terrain. This is why Soviet Union (and now Russia's) main space launch center was at the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. Now Russia's main cosmodrome is at Plesetsk in Northern Russia, where space launches are not as efficient and require more energy for escape velocity.

The U.S. space center is located in Florida, and the French launch center is located in French Guiana for the very same reason - the further south the better.

So a space launch center at Cuba makes sense from the scientific point of view. Furthermore it would be highly beneficial to Cuban economy, as the rockets would likely be assembled and maintained there. It could a major needed economic boost to Cuba.




Originally posted by die_another_day
Would this have been news if people did not worry about possible nuclear missile launch sites?


With advanced technology of the Topol M's, Russia hardly needs nuclear launch sites in Cuba. There is nothing Cuban-based ICBMs would be able to do that Russian ICBMs would not. The 60's were a different matter - which is why both sides were so concerned during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

And this is news even if you disregard the "nuclear" issue. This shows that Russia is willing to renew economic and political ties with Cuba - which could signal more cooperation in the future.

If this cooperation reaches a military partnership, then I still doubt Russia would be interested in placing any nukes in Cuba. It would be better off to construct a missile shield system and early radar installation in Cuba.



Originally posted by die_another_day
I believe this action is used to balance out the advantages and disadvantages between Russia and the U.S.


Not this action. This does not involve the military. If this deal goes through - it is a strictly scientific and commercial project. As for the future - it could eventually lead to Cuba becoming Russia's military ally. But there isn't even any talk about that at this point.


Fact is - Russia has been eyeing a new space launch center location for some time now. With NASA's degradation, and increasing reliance on satellites around the world, Russia is one of the primary commercial contractors for space launches. It is also the least expense and highly reliable one. So Russian space launch industry has a huge influxof business, but not enough capacity. Plesetsk and Baikonur are already operating at capacity - and as I explained earlier are inefficient for orbital launches. So this project makes a lot of sense.


[edit on 30-9-2008 by maloy]



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:38 PM
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I tried to find images of the Cuban Missiles but this is all that came back






posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by die_another_day
Why would Russia place a nonmilitary satellite launcher in Cuba instead of Russia?


Maloy already gave you a fairly comprehensive answer on this but I just wanted to point out another paragraph from your original source which explains it:


A major satellite launch facility in Cuba would permit placing satellites in certain orbits that cannot be done from Russian launch sites: Easterly launches close to the equator are the most efficient because of the earth's rotation, maximizing the payload that a launch vehicle can boost into orbit.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 02:38 AM
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Maloy, you act as if the US is out of their minds for having an issue with these "supposed" satellite launching bases in Cuba.


Perhaps you have forgotten your history, but the closest the US ever came to an actual exchange of atom splitting hardware was due to the same scenario occurring now.

I'd like to see you try and explain how Putin (Who you know very well is running the country) harbors no ill will towards the US and is acting strictly with the interests of launching GPS and TV satellites from Cuba.


This issue has walked like a duck, talked like a duck and smelled like a duck before and it's back quacking away at our borders again.

Hey while your here, would you mind posting what the new FSB Id's look like....? You can black out your face we'll understand.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by maloy
 


I take it you're russian or somewhat having financial ties with them. But not for one second do I take anything seriously you just said. Nor would I if the whole issue would be reversed.

I beleive a lot, but how dumb do you think we are ?



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by Benarius
reply to post by maloy
 


I take it you're russian or somewhat having financial ties with them. But not for one second do I take anything seriously you just said. Nor would I if the whole issue would be reversed.

I beleive a lot, but how dumb do you think we are ?



Lets see what he comes up with as an answer to my above questions of him..or her.


I say he's an FSB plant........that needs to be watered.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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but why Cuba?, there are many more places out there with the same features, I mean the US can't own all of them right? I believe that the Russians know what they are doing and the reaction they will receive.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by Benarius
reply to post by maloy
 


I take it you're russian or somewhat having financial ties with them. But not for one second do I take anything seriously you just said. Nor would I if the whole issue would be reversed.

I beleive a lot, but how dumb do you think we are ?




Why is it that you have a perception that I give a least bit of care about what you believe or "take seriously"? Nor do I give a hoot about your intellect.

I am not here to brainwash anyone or to propagate in favor of any third party. I am here to state my opinion, support that opinion with facts, and provide some background information.


I know a bit about Russia's current space program and its priorities, and that is why I am trying to clear up some confusion about what Russia is planning to do in Cuba.

So if you don't have anything to add to this thread besides stating your opinion in regards to my opinion, then I have nothing more to say to you.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by DisabledVet
I say he's an FSB plant........that needs to be watered.


That's right - I am with the FSB. Not only that - I am also Putin's personal internet ambassador. My job title is 'senior staff propagandist of the Kremlin IT department'.

Now if you don't mind I'll get back to work - I bill Mr. P by the hour.




posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by DisabledVet
Maloy, you act as if the US is out of their minds for having an issue with these "supposed" satellite launching bases in Cuba.


This isn't really big news in the U.S. media, so I wouldn'y say Americans are up at arms about it.

Nor am I saying that Americans shouldn't be concerned about what's going on in Cuba. But at this point there is nothing to suggest that Russia is planning or negotiating any military installations in Cuba. In the future - perhaps. But it is a fact that Russia has been looking to build a new space launch center for commercial purposes for some time now, and has been considering Cuba. Cuba is a great location, because of the reasons I stated earlier.




Originally posted by DisabledVet
Perhaps you have forgotten your history, but the closest the US ever came to an actual exchange of atom splitting hardware was due to the same scenario occurring now.


During the Cuban Missile crisis Soviet Union was highly secretive about their intentions for Cuba. The crisis erupted when U.S. discovered what was going on by spy planes. And back then - the geographical location of ballistic missiles mattered a great deal.

This time around, Russia isn't hiding the fact that they was to construct a space launch center there. Today U.S. has advanced satellite spying technology, and would no doubt monitor the center's construction and what's taking place there. Furthermore as I said, Russia does not need to risk another Cuban missile crisis just to place ICBMs closer to the U.S. There is nothing that Russian ICBM at Cuba could do, that Russian ICBMs in Russia or on Russian submarines cannot do. Geographical placement of nuclear missiles is not as important today - given the ICBM technology advancements.

But again - I am not saying there shouldn't be concern. There should be. It's just that it is too early to speculate, and there is evidence that Russia indeed wants a legit commercial space center in Cuba.



Originally posted by DisabledVet
I'd like to see you try and explain how Putin (Who you know very well is running the country) harbors no ill will towards the US and is acting strictly with the interests of launching GPS and TV satellites from Cuba.


He harbors no ill will towards the US, just like Bush harbors no ill will towards Russia. Putin certainly does see US as a rival and a possible opponent of course - and that no doubt plays into many of his foreign policy deals. But at this point Russia does have major interest in a commercial launch center - and that is the main objective for this plan.

I am sure that if Russia actually wanted to place military equipment and missiles in Cuba, it wouldn't announce anything and would do everything in secret. The fact that the space center was announced - shows that Russia is not being secretive. As for launching ballistic missiles - it wouldn't need any large easily noticeable space launch center. All it would need - is to sneak in several TOPOL M's onto the island. So the launch center would not be needed for any missiles.



Originally posted by DisabledVet
This issue has walked like a duck, talked like a duck and smelled like a duck before and it's back quacking away at our borders again.


Well at least not you know how Russia feels about NATO creeping towards Russia's borders, and constructive military installations in Eastern Europe.



Originally posted by DisabledVet
Hey while your here, would you mind posting what the new FSB Id's look like....? You can black out your face we'll understand.


Sorry - the office scanner is broken. We can't replace it because Mr. Putin cut our budget this month in order to finance a new nuclear missile base on some island somewhere.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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I'm confused I could have sworn all this was already debunked several months ago when Cuban government expressly stated NO they will not house any Russian base there.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day
but why Cuba?


Because Cuban government is friendly with Russia, and would likely give Russia a good lease deal for the land needed for this project.



Originally posted by die_another_day
there are many more places out there with the same features


But how many governments of those countries are friendly with Russia and would be willing to let this deal go through? And don't forget risk - this is a major investment we are talking about. Where else would Russia go? Middle East/ - too risky of an investment, or under U.S. sphere of influence (Saudi Arabia). Africa - to unstable and risky of an investment. Asia - India could be a good location, but it would come down to what deal Russia can deal from the government. South America - unknown politics for Russia and possibly risky.

Why not Cuba? It's a sovereign country - and does what it wants.



Originally posted by die_another_day
I believe that the Russians know what they are doing and the reaction they will receive.


What reaction would that be? Would US try and blockade the Russians from constructing the space center? What right does the US have to interfere? How do you think the world would respond to such a blockade?

And how do you think Russia will respond? Oh US blocks Cuba? Alright Russia is going to construct a space center in Iran. Or Venezuela. Would you like that more? Or is the US going to go around the world blocking sovereign nations from going about their business?



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by rufusdrak
I'm confused I could have sworn all this was already debunked several months ago when Cuban government expressly stated NO they will not house any Russian base there.


The negotiations are still ongoing according to Russian sources. And it is no longer about a Russian base. This is about a commercial space center which would be constructed with Russia's assistance, and jointly operated with Cuban government.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by maloy
 


War is war, countries have to do what they need to do. There is only hate between nations, allies share the same enemy.

There will be no peace until there is only 1 nation.

Russia and the U.S. are the big boys on the playground, they compete for pawns and use nasty tactics to try to hurt each other. Heck, the CIA probably have special assassination operations against Putin.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 06:05 PM
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No Offense to anyone, but Maloys seems to know a heck of a lot more about the Russian situation then anyone else in this thread, his response where articulate and made a heck of a lot of sense. I am not even sure why you would put him down, because he happen to like Russia? I'm proud to be an American, but other countries do exist and have allies near us, just as we do. I see NO issue. Maybe a little saber rattling, but can you blame them. Its all a giant game of RISK to these people. If one country does one thing the other power has to do something similar to show they are not weak. Wouldn't you expect the same from us, the USA. This USA is the only country who can do these types of things mentality is what has gotten us in trouble with our non existent foreign policy as it is.

On a side note, I am sure Cuba is as perfect as a spot is Poland to put a missile defense system. Whats good for goose.. ya know.



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