SETI Conspiracy

While advanced aliens may not use radio waves, less advanced people would probably be using them. So we may not find the klingon empire, but we may find a planet with life on it much like our own.

I agree, I find it hard to believe we are in this massive universe all by ourselves. There is most certainly another form of life out there....

Whether or not they have big heads and long fingers and say "I come from planet Earth" I don't know.

The big problem I have with SETI is that if they found something we most likely would not get that info. They have a set of rules they most follow if a signal is found and the "GOV" is first in line. As for the whole Idea of looking for radio signals!. I think its a great Idea because we may find races more like us. I believe that ET is already here and has been for a very long time now. However, that doesn't mean we should not look to the stars for more info. What if we were to receive a warning about say a really nasty race of ET's.

Originally posted by Cyrus
errr...the government cut NASA out a few years ago, the budget was really diminished, doesnt that indicate that other sectors in "space exploration" may have been uncovered?

Hi Cyrus!!

Well, I lived through the start of the "Space Race" - I was 7 in 1957 when Sputnik1 was launched (yes - *really*!!)

So, I watched and listened to the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs while I was in my late teens. This doesn't make me an expert, please don't misunderstand BUT I can remember the general public apathy once "we" got to the Moon, how interest picked up again with Apollo 13, and then how NASA had to reduce the number of planned missions because of reduced funding (brought about again by the public lack of support: "We've done it, why bother going back again?" viz

"I'd rate it as NASA culture, caused by a combination of congressional pressure, reprecussions from the crash-program to the moon in the 60s, and the inevitable effects of beuracracy, which was then caused by the public apathy in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s." see here

So, reduced funding could, indeed, indicate that we ("they"!!) have already found ET.

BUT, if we have, why do "they" continue to spend your money on "old technology" (like the Shuttle) when they could back-engineer a UFO (as Bob Lazar would claim) whic would do the job much more efficiently? Why *not* use the technology if it exists?

Of course, some would argue that we *can't* back-engineer the technology yet, as the physics aren't understood and the materials are unknown to us, etc (which I'll happily accept - I can imagine, say, a laptop computer going back 100 years in time and nobody being able to duplicate it, as they wouldn't be able to produce the integrated circuits, even if they could understand what was happening when it switched on).

Just my two pence...

Originally posted by psd_1
I respect your opinons, and rightfully I expect you will respect mine.

The statements I have made might be considered speculation to some, maybe more than that to others regardless of factual proof.

Now I appreachiate you taking the time to analyze my statements yet everything I said was not meant to sway anyone one way or the other. These are my feelings, what I believe to be true....

I have heard of Arecebo, yet what have they discovered there?? Nothing but static....

I hear your point about "us" being aliens, but the way I see it is that radio waves are ancient and although they can travel far into space they will eventually decay or become corruptable. I believe that SETI is a hoax, created to cover up the real way that our governement communicates with aliens.

What you do with your computer is your issue not mine, but I believe that if anything factual is taking place it is not the SETI graphic screen saver... think about it, what potential does it have? Maybe it is of use, but maybe not in scanning the skies, rather in converting alien data or something more sinister....

The real reason I started this thread was to stir interest, to see if there are others out there who also feel similar. Clearly I am not alone in the way I feel and I truly appreachiate the support as well as the criticism...
-psd_1

Of course I respect your opinions psd - everybody has a right to have their own point of view!!

"I have heard of Arecebo, yet what have they discovered there?? Nothing but static...." Not true. Arecibo is the world's largest radio telescope (1000 feet in diameter) which is used for scientific astronomical research. It isn't used exclusively for SETI but time is booked on it to collect data that is scanned for - effectively - anomalous radio signals ie those that show peaks, Gaussians, triplets and pulses. Please see here for the next schedule of work as at 25th March. So, although the signals *might* appear to be "static" they do contain information - perhaps not "proof of intelligence eg ETI) but something about RF signals emanating from space, either near space or deep space.

"Hoax" ?? I have great trouble with that word psd - truly.

Hoax = 1. A deception; a deceptive trick or story; an elaborate practical joke.

Deception? Trick? Joke? So, nearly 5 million users worldwide are being tricked? For what possible purpose?

Because "they" think that we *won't* look elsewhere for proof of ET?? That, for example, we will be good little boys and girls and not join ATS and get involved with discussions on the board? That we won't continue to read and research Fortean phenomena and paranormal subjects, because "they" think we'll be happy crunching our work units and not bother doing other things as well? Yeah, right...

"...not the SETI graphic screen saver... think about it, what potential does it have? Maybe it is of use, but maybe not in scanning the skies, rather in converting alien data or something more sinister...."

Classic question to ask now psd: have you actually *tried* SETI@home?? The screensaver has little or no potential - it is the *data* that is contained within the screensaver that has potential. The data is a "snapshot" of a small piece of sky taken at a known time: this data might be heavily corrupted by local (man-made) interference (like a mobile phone), or the passage of an aircraft or satellite... Result? The data is discarded. SETI@home program facilitates that.

If the data is uncorrupted then it is analysed (by the program) to see if it contains anything "interesting": not broadcast of the latest football scores of Alpha Centuri or the latest airing of "Jerry Springer", but simply if there are peaks, triplets, Gaussians and/ or pulses. These are given weightings: interesting signals are highlighted: interesting candidates are listed here

Other signals - those with nothing significant (the vast majority of signals, as you'd imagine) are "discarded" - well, not quite true - they demonstrate that *here*, at this time, nothing significant happened - perhaps something *might* happen here later... Who knows??

"The real reason I started this thread was to stir interest, to see if there are others out there who also feel similar. Clearly I am not alone in the way I feel and I truly appreachiate the support as well as the criticism..."

VERY clearly you are not alone in your POV psd - out of a population of computer owners/ users, how many people *chose* to run SETI@home, BOINC or one of the other distributed computing programs available eg Climate Prediction ?

Frankly, I have no idea!! I would imagine less than 1%, so we people who *do* are clearly and demonstrably "out of step" with the majority of folks. No worries. Each to his or her own I say.

And I am not "critcising" (Heaven forbid!): I'm simply saying that your stated premise, that SETI@home is a "hoax" - a "sop" to keep us punters happy and in our place - is misguided.

Thank you!!

When i made refrence to the SETI screen saver I was referring to the data is supposidly crunches.... I have at one time allowed SETI to use my comptuer, like many others... Soon after I became disenchanted in the possiblity that my computer or any home PC will have anything to do with discovering alien radio waves....

I used the word hoax but maybe I should have used other words when referring to the SETI COVER-UP that is taking place right now.

Another thing I wanted to touch upon was your previous post regarding the moon landings. I have done some research into the landing and have concluded that there is an alien presence on the moon and they do not want human beings there. Neil Armstrong was quoted as revealing that aliens were observing him from a distance on the moon surface. He mentioned that they looked menacing and not pleased with the arrival. Although we are starting to hear about new programs (china) develped for a moon landing I believe that over the past 30 - 40 years NASA has known about the alien/moon situation and has done its best to avoid confrontation. I plan on starting a new thread dedicated to specifically this, for if it is true and the real reason we have avoided more moon landings is alien based than the public is in store for some shocking new information (if NASA ever decides to reveal).... I'm interested in hearing your opinion on this, since you grew up during these moon landings

-psd_1

Originally posted by Genya

Originally posted by psd_1
I respect your opinons, and rightfully I expect you will respect mine.

The statements I have made might be considered speculation to some, maybe more than that to others regardless of factual proof.

Now I appreachiate you taking the time to analyze my statements yet everything I said was not meant to sway anyone one way or the other. These are my feelings, what I believe to be true....

I have heard of Arecebo, yet what have they discovered there?? Nothing but static....

I hear your point about "us" being aliens, but the way I see it is that radio waves are ancient and although they can travel far into space they will eventually decay or become corruptable. I believe that SETI is a hoax, created to cover up the real way that our governement communicates with aliens.

What you do with your computer is your issue not mine, but I believe that if anything factual is taking place it is not the SETI graphic screen saver... think about it, what potential does it have? Maybe it is of use, but maybe not in scanning the skies, rather in converting alien data or something more sinister....

The real reason I started this thread was to stir interest, to see if there are others out there who also feel similar. Clearly I am not alone in the way I feel and I truly appreachiate the support as well as the criticism...
-psd_1

[Edited on 25-3-2004 by psd_1]

hi psd_1, I've been following this thread with interest. As you know, I don't agree with a lot of what you have said and I think that Genya has done a good job in explaining things in the way that I also see them, but his explaination is so much better than mine
I guess that everybody has their own opinion and veiwpoint on the whole alien issue, and the thing is that none of us really know the truth. Any one of us could be right, but I don't think that it will matter in the end because I hope that one day we can all forget about what we think we know and just somehow discover what really is going on in this universe by whatever means.
Perhaps it could be one of the beings on the site that you have visited that gives us our proof,or perhaps one day SETI will find the signal that will lead to us looking in the right direction for our distant neighbours.
As long as we get there in the end, thats all that matters.




(also can I offer you a bit of advice about quoting from other posts. It's best if you can just quote the piece of the post that is relevent to your reply, it can make a thread confusing if it gets filled up with pages of quotes and you might end up getting a ticking off from the mods. You can do it by quoting as you have been , and just deleting the bit's that you don't want )

Sorry about that, I'll be sure to just quote only the necessary parts!

-psd_1

Originally posted by psd_1
... Soon after I became disenchanted in the possiblity that my computer or any home PC will have anything to do with discovering alien radio waves....

I used the word hoax but maybe I should have used other words when referring to the SETI COVER-UP that is taking place right now.

...I'm interested in hearing your opinion on this, since you grew up during these moon landings

-psd_1

Hi psd!!

First, many thanx to my colleague pantha for her valued comments!!

As for your statements: well, I'm pleased you have tried SETI@home - thank you!! Lot's of people have, and lot's of people "abandon" it. That is their choice and there is no harm done to anybody. Better, I think, to have tried it and then find out something about the program - and discover, for yourself, that it doesn't seem "right", for whatever reasons. For *myself, I'd certainly prefer that than have someone "criticise" it without speaking from a position of strength - as the saying goes "Try it, you might like it". And if you *don't* - then uninstall it - no harm done.

SETI COVERUP?? No, I'm still being obtuse here psd. What is SETI@home "covering up" exactly?

Cover up = 1. To conceal the truth; "The White House covered up the burglary."

As I've tried to demonstrate, people that *chose* to run SETI@home aren't, necessarily, "buying into" a "cover up": running the program doesn't mean that they - as individuals - aren't as fascinated by the possibility that aliens have already visited Earth and continue to do so. I, for one, witnessed a major UFO event during the 1990's and no one will convince me that UFO's don't exist. Whether these are "nuts and bolts" machines, or temporal warp events, or "simply" some paranormal event occuring in my mind at that time, however, I couldn't say.

However, that I continue to run SETI@home (and have done since 2001, with a total CPU time of over 3 years) is not me "endorsing" a "cover up" but, rather, that I can contribute to real science and, perhaps, find traces of radio emissions that emanated from deep - or near - space. And, as I said before, where's the "harm" in that?? Whatever, I'm at least *using* my machines to do *something* when I'm not needing them for something else. And, as I tend to replace my machines sequentially every 2 years or so (in line with Moores Law), then I think I'm getting maximum benefit from them before they get too "long in the tooth". If *you* choose to let your machine(s) sit on your desk like an expensive stone ie switched off when you're not using it/ them, then all praise to you psd. Each to his or her own...

"Cover up" - no, I don't think so, thank you very much!!

As regards your question re the "Space Race" etc - well, I guess I'll wait for your new thread, as I'd rather not go off topic in this one. Sorry

Have a good day psd!!

Well, I'm still gonna run SETI... since to date my computer hasn't flipped out from some virus... and there is no way of telling if it is a government cover-up or not. Although it might be... but, anyway.

Fellow SETI users... as you were

SETI was awarded a million dollar a year grant for microbial research last year in June from NASA. This is a lead research position with the grants running for several years. What is that all about anyway? Is SETI branching out into other fields?

I agree with those that think SETI is a waste of time, effort and energy. SETI is only a pattern recognition project based on a very narrow area of exploration. One that in my honest opinion is far less likely to find any kind of pattern in a signal than any other.

IMO, SETI, like NASA, is just a diversion. NASA is a far more expensive diversion away from the subject of ET visitation, but SETI is up there as well since its unmentioned purpose is to keep people focused away from the idea that aliens are already coming to earth.

With the probability that the revelation of ET visitation would devastate our current way of life, the massive expenditure to scientifically dissuade the public from imagining advanced life coming to this planet is more than justified in the minds of those controlling this information.

I smell a "Debate in the Works?"

Its like you took the words right out of my mouth.... I couldn't agree with you more!!

Clearly a huge cover-up has taken place and the powers that be have chosen certin projects to convince the public that attempts to achieve communications with aliens are still in the works when we already know that this has been accomplished YEARS AGO

-psd_1

Originally posted by heelstone
IMO, SETI, like NASA, is just a diversion. NASA is a far more expensive diversion away from the subject of ET visitation, but SETI is up there as well since its unmentioned purpose is to keep people focused away from the idea that aliens are already coming to earth.

With the probability that the revelation of ET visitation would devastate our current way of life, the massive expenditure to scientifically dissuade the public from imagining advanced life coming to this planet is more than justified in the minds of those controlling this information.

Originally posted by craterchains
SETI was awarded a million dollar a year grant for microbial research last year in June from NASA.

....One that in my honest opinion is far less likely to find any kind of pattern in a signal than any other.

Hi craterchains!

Thank you for your comments. A link to your source would have been useful. However, I don't doubt that such a sum of money has been allocated - for example, I found this which, although not specifically relating to your quote of $1M it helps expalin *why* SETI researches microbial life forms.

Think about it: SETI = Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. There isn't a "narrow" window in which research is limited to radio waves - why shouldn't exo-biologists (such as the late Carl Sagan) also look for evidence of microbial life forms?? And, come to that, is $1M such a large sum, compared to the multi-millions spent on other areas of research?? Hardly the stuff of a disinformation campaign is it?? And compared to corporations, nothing at all...

Consider this extract about Coca Cola here:

"They would have been fascinated to know that for the past four years Coke has employed one of the country�s top intellectual property lawyers to defend a case that it has never identified in its annual SEC filings. What�s more, the $4 billion lawsuit has gone totally unreported by a national media that has, of late, reveled in the prospect of major U.S. corporations involved in trials that could cost hundreds of millions of dollars in damages."

$4 billion??

Quote: "One that in my honest opinion is far less likely to find any kind of pattern in a signal than any other."

So, what - in your honest opinion - would *your* preferred search algorithm be, as oppsed to the one currently used please?? I'm sure SETI would welcome your opinion?

Thanx!!

Originally posted by heelstone
IMO, SETI, like NASA, is just a diversion. NASA is a far more expensive diversion away from the subject of ET visitation, but SETI is up there as well since its unmentioned purpose is to keep people focused away from the idea that aliens are already coming to earth.

With the probability that the revelation of ET visitation would devastate our current way of life, the massive expenditure to scientifically dissuade the public from imagining advanced life coming to this planet is more than justified in the minds of those controlling this information.

Hi heelstone!!

Thank you for your input!!

Quote: "...purpose is to keep people focused away from the idea that aliens are already coming to earth. "

How so? I've tried (unsuccessfully it seems) to show that an interest in running SETI@home as an individual doesn't necessarily mean that the same individual isn't just as interested in UFO reports?? Honestly, I'm confused by this? Why should they be mutually exclusive?

And, of course, the question to be asked is "How successful has SETI/ NASA (since you widden the scope of this discussion) been in '...keep(ing) people focused away from the idea that aliens are already coming to earth.' "??

Can you see what I'm saying here heelstone? *If* the purpose of SETI/ NASA is to provide a "diversion" - a "sop" (as I styled it in an earlier post) to keep us boys and girls "contented" and lull is into a false sense of security (please fill in your own word(s) here) - is there any evidence that this has been achieved please? Honestly? I tried - without success I'm afraid - to find figures of the number of people worldwide who believe in UFO's existence. I did find this which states that:

"A Roper Poll (presumably in 1998??) claimed that nearly four million Americans have had certain "indicator" experiences and therefore had probably been abducted by aliens."

And that is "abductions" heelstone - not just sightings or "belief"!!

See what I'm saying here? *If* SETI/NASA was established to keep us folks "happy" WHY is it *so* unsuccessful?? (I'll readily concede that Project Blue Book was disinformation - but that goes into whole new areas beyond the original question regarding SETI, as you'll know).

Quote: "...the massive expenditure to scientifically dissuade the public "

Massive? Perhaps for NASA - but SETI?? Please see my earlier response about Coca Cola (chosen at random - not because it is extreme - notice I didn't highlight MicroSoft!! )

So, what are my points?

SETI = disinformation? To keep us people happy and content and unable to think for ourselves?

I'd really not like to go along with that POV. As I mentioned earlier, I witnessed a UFO event - I have no doubt that such events occur (whatever they may be). But I chose to run SETI@home as well...

WHY? Because I can. I have computers that are kept switched on 24/7. I like to think that, rather than being a natural philosopher of old, contemplating how many angels can sit on a pin, I'm actually *doing* something tangible by helping to "eliminate" data - whilst adding in some part to a greater understanding of "what's out there".

Where's the harm in that please?

here is a link to some FAQ about SETI on and some of the answers that may be of interest.

www.planetary.org...

Why use radio?

Radio signals travel throughout most of our Milky Way galaxy with very little interference. They even pass through thick clouds of dust that prevent us from seeing many stars. Most scientists who have looked into the problem of communicating between stars believe that radio is the easiest and cheapest way to search. Some think that light waves are better, and there have been a few searches looking for light signals -- optical SETI, or OSETI programs. But most SETI projects have looked for radio signals.


Wouldn't an extraterrestrial civilization use something far more advanced than radio with which to communicate?

It's entirely possible that there is some unknown method of communicating, and that radio may seem as primitive to aliens as smoke signals do to most of us today. However, we can only use the technology we know. Even if a more advanced method of intergalactic communication exists, an extraterrestrial civilization might choose to use radio because it is the most primitive method able to communicate across the galaxy, perhaps increasing their chances of contacting other civilizations.

I am not trying to say that everything stated in the site is true , but as I've said before, I think it's best to keep an open mind about any possibility and that way you can't be mentaly unprepared for for any event that may happen in the future.I like to hedge my bets on the issue of extraterresrials, and in using the SETI programme I am just covering one angle, and in the meantime I continue to look to the skies and for clues around me so that I don't miss what could be under my nose.

Originally posted by pantha...I like to hedge my bets on the issue of extraterresrials, and in using the SETI programme I am just covering one angle, and in the meantime I continue to look to the skies and for clues around me so that I don't miss what could be under my nose.

Hi pantha!!

Well said! I think that is the issue, isn't it?

People who chose to run SETI@home are "keeping their options open". They are assisting (along with around 5 million other users worldwide) in the search for evidence of ET that *might* be transmitting radio waves omnidirectionally, whether they (ET) want to or not. By this I mean just like the Earth, where our 100 or so years of radio transmissions would reveal *us* to some other civilisation who had the same level of technolgy as ourselves ie an ability to receive radio transmissions.

Some might argue that the chances of all these factors being in place are extremely small - I wouldn't disagree.

However, what is the alternative ( a question to all those opposed - or with reservations - towards SETI)?

Alternative 1 Carry on with SETI, as the technology exists, and some individuals are willing to "lend support" by allowing their computers to run SETI@home (note that if the Worlds population is around 6 415 274 000 here then this represents about 0.078% of the population). Evidence, once again, of the failure of SETI to "con the people" methinks?

Alternative 2 Abandon it. Stop it. Have nothing to do with it.

Fine - and what is achieved *exactly*? What is gained? Will it make the public *more* aware of the possibility of ET's visiting Earth than now? (Please remember that around 4 million Americans believe they might have been *abducted* - nearly the same number of people who run SETI@home worldwide). Not necessarily the *same* people, of course!!

*If* SETI is a distraction, then it has surely failed in it's purpose folks. And, if it's failed, then why not "pull the plug" on it? Wouldn't "they" if it *was* a government-run misinformation device? Can you imagine, sitting in a meeting trying to justify continuing to fund a project that clearly - and demonstrably - has failed to work?

"Well, yes, I know we've only engaged with about 5 million people - but *they* are 5 million less to have to worry about....Just another 99.9% of the Earths population to convince and we've cracked it!!"

Really? Hmmm...

Thanx pantha!!

Originally posted by psd_1
Clearly a huge cover-up has taken place ....

... when we already know that this has been accomplished YEARS AGO-psd_1

Huge cover up? Could you justify that statement psd in the light of *my* findings that less than 0.1% of the population has "bought into" SETI please?

Quote: "...when we already know... "

Truly, I am aghast!! Thank you for this wonderful piece of information - my 40-odd years of Ufology research has been shaken to the very core!!

Could you point me - and our assembled audience - towards this definitive, non-equivocable evidence please?? Please?

Thank you in anticipation!!

Originally posted by Genya
How so? I've tried (unsuccessfully it seems) to show that an interest in running SETI@home as an individual doesn't necessarily mean that the same individual isn't just as interested in UFO reports?? Honestly, I'm confused by this? Why should they be mutually exclusive?

And, of course, the question to be asked is "How successful has SETI/ NASA (since you widden the scope of this discussion) been in '...keep(ing) people focused away from the idea that aliens are already coming to earth.' "??

Can you see what I'm saying here heelstone? *If* the purpose of SETI/ NASA is to provide a "diversion" - a "sop" (as I styled it in an earlier post) to keep us boys and girls "contented" and lull is into a false sense of security (please fill in your own word(s) here) - is there any evidence that this has been achieved please? Honestly? I tried - without success I'm afraid - to find figures of the number of people worldwide who believe in UFO's existence. I did find this which states that:

"A Roper Poll (presumably in 1998??) claimed that nearly four million Americans have had certain "indicator" experiences and therefore had probably been abducted by aliens."

And that is "abductions" heelstone - not just sightings or "belief"!!

See what I'm saying here? *If* SETI/NASA was established to keep us folks "happy" WHY is it *so* unsuccessful?? (I'll readily concede that Project Blue Book was disinformation - but that goes into whole new areas beyond the original question regarding SETI, as you'll know).

The very fact that science as a whole is fairly devoted to the belief that there is nothing to ET visitation, it creates a fairly unpenetrable sheild of defense for all governments to deny that its happening. This is despite strong public belief that there may be something they aren't telling us. Government and scientific "authority" on the subject keep even the strongest critics at bay. SETI is simply one part of the equation of blinding the public with scientific disinformation.

Quote: "...the massive expenditure to scientifically dissuade the public "

Massive? Perhaps for NASA - but SETI?? Please see my earlier response about Coca Cola (chosen at random - not because it is extreme - notice I didn't highlight MicroSoft!!

)

So, what are my points?

SETI = disinformation? To keep us people happy and content and unable to think for ourselves?

I'd really not like to go along with that POV. As I mentioned earlier, I witnessed a UFO event - I have no doubt that such events occur (whatever they may be). But I chose to run SETI@home as well...

WHY? Because I can. I have computers that are kept switched on 24/7. I like to think that, rather than being a natural philosopher of old, contemplating how many angels can sit on a pin, I'm actually *doing* something tangible by helping to "eliminate" data - whilst adding in some part to a greater understanding of "what's out there".

Where's the harm in that please?

I know. SETI isn't a very expensive experiment, but its still there and as such I lump it together with NASA as part of the collective on ET visitation disinformation.

I do not see much harm in continued use of SETI, but its my opinion that the perpetuating of the study does indeed hamper efforts at getting the government to release whatever information they have on UFOs/ETs. So long as the public has a mixed signal as to the truth of ET life, it keeps any real truth from being divulged. Entirely my opinion though.