It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Indiana Father Kills Sex Offender Who Broke Into Home

page: 10
8
<< 7  8  9    11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 12:15 AM
link   

Originally posted by AceWombat04
reply to post by Retseh
 


All I can say is that I respect your view, and that I understand it. I'm sorry that you can't find it within yourself to, as you said, extent me the same courtesy, but I can totally understand that and won't condemn or judge you for it.

I don't place a higher value on the life of the attacker. Indeed, the philosophical dilemma is that I place exactly the same value on all life. All we can do in life is do the best we can to do what we feel is right. None of us are perfect, and I hold myself to that as well. I could easily be wrong, and you could easily be right. All I can do is try my best to carry out my intention, which is to do what I feel is right, and as I said, I could easily be wrong. I admit that freely and will not condemn others for doing what they feel is right.


reply to post by WisdomInChains
 

I can totally understand what you're saying as well, and I respect it.

[edit on 10/3/2008 by AceWombat04]





im sorry but you truly are messed up in the head.




posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 05:46 AM
link   
reply to post by Swatman
 


You are more than entitled to your opinion. You could be right. I respect your view and stand by my own. All we can do is what we feel is right. None of us are perfect, you and I included.



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 09:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by AceWombat04
I would let myself be killed in that scenario, but only after making every effort (short of taking anyone's life) to preserve the lives and wellbeing of everyone in the room.


I suspect your strong opinions are based in some spiritual belief. Why do you think death is such a big deal?

I will say I think there are far worse things than death. For instance, a child being raped and tortured and killed is a whole lot worse than the quick and painless death of the rapist.

I am quite spiritual, and I would rather suffer the wrath of an angry God, or endure the bad karma my actions might incur, rather than see a helpless individual that depends on me to protect them suffer horribly.

I think your altruism is based in selfishness. You are more worried about your own feelings and your own fate than you are about the potential suffering of those that trust and depend on you for their safety.



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 10:07 AM
link   
reply to post by Sonya610
 

While I consider myself spiritual in my own way, I am not religious and do not fear the punishment, disappointment, or rebuke of a higher power should I take someone's life. My feelings are based on two things. 1) Empathy for all, including horribly ill, twisted, harmful people, and 2) recognition that I don't know everything, and that for all I know the person I kill might go on to do something positive later in life, however improbable that might seem. That's why their life isn't more valuable or meaningful to me than anyone else's. A human life is a human life in my mind, and all are equally valuable, because all hold the same potential regardless of whether that potential is realized (or perverted, as in the case of the attacker.) I know that isn't a popular point of view, and I do not seek to convince anyone to change their own view to mirror my own.

On the other hand, what you said about selfishness a very good point, and one which I have considered many times over the years. It is selfish to avoid becoming a killer and allow others to die based soley upon my personal ethics. However, I would also posit that it is equally selfish to place the value of the lives of others over the value of the attacker's life, killing him instead. That, too, is based on others' conceptions of what is best in such a situation.

As I said before, in my opinion there are no good solutions in such a scenario. Either way, someone is going to die, and someone is going to kill. People have their opinions, and I have mine. They have their ethical compass, and I have mine. That's all any of us can do when the time comes: do what we feel in our hearts is right.

That's why I will never condemn or judge anyone for killing an attacker in such a scenario. It just isn't what I would do though, and I would like to think that people with differing perspectives are capable of respecting or at least tolerating one another's views regardless of whether they agree.

Everything I have said is solely my opinion, and I respect those held by yourself and others in this thread fully. It does sadden me to find that some cannot return that courtesy, however, that too I can understand and accept.



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 11:01 AM
link   

think death is too strong a punishment for the crime. I don't think the homeowner should be charged but he should be ashamed. I bet the sex offender got caught taking a leak in an alley. Maybe he was lost. Maybe he was going to rape. His crime was trespassing. You can't deal a death penalty until they commit the crime. I know it seems wrong but it is just.


REALLY??? The guy was found naked in the father's daughter's room, I'm sure he was only trespasssing, or taking a leak and had no intentions of raping her. WOW, you are reaching man, I would've killed him advertantly.



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 11:07 AM
link   
reply to post by AceWombat04
 


You are more spiritual than you believe. Those beliefs are the epitimy of those in the Quaker Faith. I don't agree with much of them but those are indeed virtues of the true believer. If you could live with the visions of innocents and others suffering and be able to sleep at night, I guess thats your perogative. I however, believe in a higher virtue of putting others existance and safety above my own if they are unable to protect themselves. Good luck. In the world of the future, your going to have a lot of conflicting thoughts. Life as we know it is going to get more violent and the innocents and the unprotected are going to need those of us who want them to survive!!

Zindo



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 11:08 AM
link   

Originally posted by AceWombat04
Everything I have said is solely my opinion, and I respect those held by yourself and others in this thread fully. It does sadden me to find that some cannot return that courtesy, however, that too I can understand and accept.


Honestly I think you are very out of touch with reality here. Situations such as this are not calm discussions with the intruder regarding the the value of life, or the theological equivalency of death.

You see death and killing as a moral concept/dilemna. Real violence and death are not nearly so neat and clean. It is not all equal.

But rest assured chances are you will never face an ugly violent encounter that threatens someone close to you, so in your mind your views can keep in you a position of moral superiority.


[edit on 5-10-2008 by Sonya610]



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 11:12 AM
link   



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 12:05 PM
link   
reply to post by Sonya610
 


I don't feel morally superior to anyone.
As I said, I could very easily be wrong.

reply to post by ZindoDoone
 


I never said that I'd be at peace with the decision or that I could sleep well at night after making it (were I still alive.) It's just what I feel would be the right thing to do in that situation (for me personally - not for anyone else, unless they happen to feel the same way I do.)

Again, to everyone: these are only my opinions, and I respect everyone else's. I don't feel morally superior to anyone, I wouldn't be comfortable with my decision, and I don't want to change anyone else's mind. We should agree to disagree in peace.

[edit on 10/5/2008 by AceWombat04]



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 12:13 PM
link   
If this were to have happend down in Texas, the perp would not have been restrained by the neck, but most likely would have been shot, and the law down there allows shoot first and ask questions later when it comes to in-home or on property invasion.

This perp got what was comming and deserved.

Different laws for different states. But even if the father is charged, the chances of him being convicted for anything is next to nill.

Cheers!!!!



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 01:28 PM
link   
Condoms. Priceless. I love how while he might have been a sex offender, he still wasn't going to risk catching aids if it turned out she was a skank.

Also I enjoy the "He said his daughter went to church Sunday after the incident" at the end too. That's important to know.



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 04:27 PM
link   



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 06:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by earthman4
I think death is too strong a punishment for the crime. I don't think the homeowner should be charged but he should be ashamed. I bet the sex offender got caught taking a leak in an alley. Maybe he was lost. Maybe he was going to rape. His crime was trespassing. You can't deal a death penalty until they commit the crime. I know it seems wrong but it is just.


Wait till he rapes the daughter THEN do something? You are either a troll, an idiot or more likely a pedophile and a NAMBLA supporter. No sane, intelligent person would fault the man for protecting his family. Personally I would have tried to break some bones, like a leg, arm and a rib or two. Let him go back to prison and get his justice there.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 06:35 AM
link   
reply to post by sos37
 
Blessings, to that! Finally someone to take a stand and stand up for their kids. To people who think it's cruel and waht not, grow up! I would have done the same thing, and so would have my husband! So yeah man, justice is served!!



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 06:59 AM
link   
reply to post by AceWombat04
 


I'm interested in learning how far you believe you'd be prepared to take this.

Firstly, do you have children ?

If you don't, there's really no point in proceeding because until you have a child, it's impossible to imagine how protective you become once you're a parent and how prepared you are to go to extremes to defend them.

If you do have children however, how do you believe you'd react, were you to discover a naked, gloved, male stranger in your sleeping child's bedroom ?

What would you do ? Would you close the door and leave him with your sleeping child ?

Would you attempt to eject him from your child's room?

What if he refused to leave ?

What if, at that point, your child awakened to find the naked, much older stranger next to her ?

What would you bid your child do ? Close her eyes ? Run ? Call the police ? Would you involve your child rather than become involved yourself, thus escalating the situation in order to safeguard your stated principles ?

Would you attempt to physically eject the stranger or to restrain him until police arrived ?

How far would you be prepared to go in those attempts ?

Would you be prepared to risk your own life in order to remove the intended rapist from your home and/or to hold him down and prevent him from harming anyone, until help arrived ?

Should you fail in attempts to eject or restrain the stranger, your child's life would potentially be at stake and possibly the lives of others (witnesses) in the house.

The rapist, upon being discovered by you, would have a great deal to lose were he to lose in a fight or altercation with you. Once police arrived on the scene, he would undoubtedly be returned to prison, possibly for the remaining active years of his life. This would prevent him from raping further victims. He would therefore be strongly motivated to fight you with everything at his disposal. In order to prevent you from summoning the police, he would have to silence you and your child and any other members of the household.

What would you do? Would you open the door and tell him to run free, aware, surely, than in doing so, you would be freeing him to victimise another child and possibly that child's family. Possibly several other children and their families.

What would you do ? Would you offer the person a robe and then point to the door, saying: ' I believe you to have potential. Go free. I .. on behalf of my own child whom you intended to rape and possibly murder .. forgive you. Go. I will not summon the authorities ' ?

Would you have the right to forgive the person on behalf of your child ?

Would you easily forgive yourself were you to learn that the person had entered another home and raped and murdered one or more individuals ? Would your child forgive you for that ?

Or, would you encourage the person to leave your home, after which you would summon the police and provide them with a description ?

Or, would you engage in some other scenario ?



[edit on 6-10-2008 by Dock6]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 08:58 AM
link   
reply to post by Dock6
 


The scenario I was responding to was a hypothetical one posed by another poster, in which there was no way for me to subdue the attacker, but had to kill or be killed (probably along with my - again, hypothetical - children.)

No, I do not have children. I agree that there is no way to know for certain how I would react. Again, the scenario posed to me was hypothetical. If you would like me to answer your questions on a hypothetical basis I will, but as you yourself said, it's sort of moot as I don't actually have children.

I can say that I have been in situations before where people's wellbeings (yes, including children) would have been at stake had an attacker killed me, and even in those situations, I would not have killed the person. It never came to that, though.

I must clarify one thing, though. You said "my stated principles" in reference to me not taking any action. I am not an outright pacifist. I'm not above committing violence to protect myself or others. I would just never take action with the intent to kill. Your response seems to infer from my earlier posts that I am an outright pacifist, and would not act at all. That isn't the case. Certainly I would try to protect a child, however I would also try to safeguard the life of the attacker as well if possible. No, I would not allow them to go free, either. I do believe that society must bhe protected from beings such as this. I just also believe that protection from them and their potential betterment as human beings need not be mutually exclusive. Again, this is all hypothetical, and what it comes down to is intent. I have no way of knowing what would really happen.

All of what I have said is speculation, and my own personal intentions, feelings, and beliefs. I can't know how I'd react for certain. I do know what my intentions would be, though, and my intentions would never include killing another human being under any circumstances.

Again, I know that isn't popular. I respect the views of those who disagree with my own, and I will reiterate once again that I neither seek to change anyone else's mind, nor to judge or condemn those who would act differently than I think I would.

[edit on 10/6/2008 by AceWombat04]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 09:35 PM
link   
reply to post by earthman4
 


You must be a sex offender yourself.



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 11:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by AceWombat04

Certainly I would try to protect a child, however I would also try to safeguard the life of the attacker as well if possible.


I'm sure that you're a thoroughly nice guy, but responses such as the one above are increasingly troubling.

"Safeguard the life of an attacker" - the absolute, pure insanity of that statement makes me squint uncontrollably at the the screen.



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 11:40 AM
link   
reply to post by earthman4
 



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 11:04 AM
link   
I was certainly called a few names in this thread. All I did was try to enlighten some that a human life should not be taken on just hearsay. People read words on the screen and condemn a man to death and guilt is accepted without any real proof. An innocent man could have been murdered and false evidence planted. None of us know this was not the case. None of us know any of this even happened.
I am glad that the rapist died. I had no idea 90% of the people who posted about it could not fathom that the information they read could be wrong. It seems it would be so easy to murder a person then drag them in your house and plant a weapon. Most people would call you a hero and you would get away with it. They idea that my fellow citizens are so gullible saddens me greatly. The name calling hurts much less than the realization that so many out there will ignore the possibility of that there are people that would deceive them. As long as there is a nice, tidy story in the news it will be accepted as fact by the masses. There are only a few who will question the validity of what they hear.
It shakes my very faith in democracy. Maybe a royalist government is the way to go. How can the masses be so ignorant? Why are the enlightened so few? I am happy that, most likely, a rape was avoided and a criminal career was ended. To ignore the “most likely “ part is just so ignorant. To all those who now hate me because I presumed innocence before guilt: I would not even want to be your king. Who would want to rule such a short-sighted mob?
Once again: Bad man die, Earthman glad, happy family go on. Maybe we make sure this the truth?
Sorry to be so condescending, but you deserve it, you ignorant, seething masses of fools yearning to be free from any speculation. To those few who showed some true rhetorical thought, my hats off to you and your elegant posts.




top topics



 
8
<< 7  8  9    11 >>

log in

join