US Banking Collapse a 'Controlled Demolition', page 3

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reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 05:45 PM by Rockpuck

reply to post by Truther

I don't really see a "controlled demolition" .. not really..

I think that it's being used as an excuse to make major power consolidation .. and I firmly believe Paulson has his own interest at heart before that of the people..

He ought to step down, imo.

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 05:54 PM by T0by

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by truthdrug

One thousand dollars coin? o.o

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 05:58 PM by bruxfain

I saw this post this morning, but instead of immediately posting a response I decided to think first before I responded.

I wrote that what is going on in the financial markets was a "controlled and focused demolition" in a September 18th thread concerning on the downward spiraling stock market. So I was first upset that the OP was just mocking my original observations.

But it wasn't a simple mocking as I thought. The OP hasn't just parroted what I wrote two weeks ago, he spun the observation to suggest that this is some sort of transition event to usher in this Amero. I still didn't want to comment but that I passed through Sorcha Faal's sight and saw another story concerning the Amero.

I don't know much about the Amero; only what I got from Wiki. I am not out of hand against something like that, as I would like to see closer collaboration, possibly even a a single system, on the north american continent; hell, I am not opposed to a single western hemispheric union and single currency.

What I am against is when people give incorrect analysis. What you are seeing is not the fleecing of America, but the systematic destruction of America's enemies. And the reclamation of its wealth. In war, however, it is apparently customary for an evil enemy to give the impression of impending victory even when they are suffering catastrophic loses with every tick of the clock. But they'll find out shortly that there is no way out of this situation.

The enemy of humanity has always found refuge in the banks, they probably created the concept of banking. Paulson is using his constitutional authority to seize control of the entire industry and eventually the day-to-day business of printing money will be where the constitution says it is supposed to be. Then Paulson will leave.

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 06:04 PM by Anonymous ATS

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 06:50 PM by wdkirk

I think alot will be said by the 50 States that make up this Union before you will see the whole sale turn over of the US to a North American Union. The original 13 colonies, Texas and California, to name a few, I don't think will go quietly. The states have their own system of government as well. The military of the US (Federal Military by the way) is made up of folks from the 50 states and they won't take kindly to attacking there friends, neighbors and relatives not to mention fellow Americans. Police might be another issue, but, Someone said earlier that Americans posses a spirit that is hard to break. I believe that statement.

my 2 pennies.

[edit on 1-10-2008 by wdkirk]

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 07:18 PM by disgustedbyhumanity

reply to post by Truther

I don't know why you don't get it. The doomsday scenario only happens without a bailout. No doubt the banks and wall street have done us bad. They have taken our deposits and lost it all and then some. We either act and we get to keep our money or we let it all collapse and then the goverment and FDIC will have to outlay amounts much greater than the 700 billion just to give us our savings back.

A bailout is going to happen either way. We can do it now and avoid financial Armeggedon or we can wait for Armegeddon and then do it. My vote is to do it now and avoid much of the future pain. There is no doubt the system needs drastic change and it is coming. We can pay for it now or pay much more for it later.

American is down the tubes because the populance is morons who take stands based on false truths. That is the real problem with America.

[edit on 1-10-2008 by disgustedbyhumanity]

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 07:47 PM by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by bruxfain

I don't know much about the Amero; only what I got from Wiki. I am not out of hand against something like that, as I would like to see closer collaboration, possibly even a a single system, on the north american continent; hell, I am not opposed to a single western hemispheric union and single currency.

Some of us are. Some of us would like to hang on to the sovereignty of the USA, and, even though perhaps good argument could be made for a North American Union, we expect our leaders to be up front with us, give us a choice in the matter, a say, a vote. This is not their country. It is OUR country. Theirs and ours. Anything that someone has to plot out behind my back and try to spring on me I distrust. I have heard nothing from them about why they might want this. In fact, I have heard nothing official about it at all.

If this is good for us, let them lay it out. Let them show us and let us decide if we wish to go along.

Originally posted by bruxfain
What I am against is when people give incorrect analysis. What you are seeing is not the fleecing of America, but the systematic destruction of America's enemies. And the reclamation of its wealth.

Ok, that is a statement. And, I am not arguing against it because there is nothing to argue against at this point. I am willing to listen to your analysis. Please explain how this bailout will destroy America's enemies, and either support it with argument that can be linked to, or your own laid out as well as you can. I am open minded enough to want to listen, but you have to provide some reasoning here. Not just a statement.

After all, I can make the statement that this is being done by reptilian aliens from the planet Zogwa, and that they are acting in concert with Russia. A statement means nothing if not supported.

Originally posted by bruxfain
Paulson is using his constitutional authority to seize control of the entire industry and eventually the day-to-day business of printing money will be where the constitution says it is supposed to be. Then Paulson will leave.

Can you support this statement that Paulson is attempting to rescue us? Any evidence that shows his record on trying to restore the Constitutional approach to money in the US? Anything at all that would lead us to believe that this is altruism and not a coup attempt on his part?

I am looking forward to your reply. It is an interesting premise, I have not yet heard this spin on the situation, but as it stands unsupported there is not enough to make it convincing in anyway.

[edit on 1-10-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 08:27 PM by elysiumfire

Hi There,

It has been known and quite well understood since the concept of the Amero became known that the dollar was going to get a hiding. The problem here is the sheer scale of the American people's misfortune...you're dammned if you do, and you're dammned if you don't. You've been cast out and reeled in by truths and lies that it is almost impossible to tell the difference, but one thing you can rely on as a truth, and that is that leopards do not ever change their spots.

The amero would not stand a chance against a strong dollar, the NAU would not gain any grounding without the amero being of a value that could equal the dollar. It stands to reason that to place the economy in dire chaos, brings forth an opportunity to introduce the amero as a rival currency capable of edging the country out of the manufactured chaos ( I say manfucatured because it was allowed to happen through deregulation of regulations which were meant to stave off the potential for the chaos. Both people's greed and ignorance inevitably took the better of prudence. Basically, the people were given the rope by which to hang themselves, and they have duly done so). Who's going to control the amero...the government or the Fed?

There's a principle at stake here, a constitutional principle. What will it take to see that principle cast aside...that is the question that the banking forces are asking of you? Are you willing to stand up for that principle no matter the cost, or are you going to buckle, give in and surrender to what will be inevitable if you do? You're being blackmailed to accept a path that is unconstitutional, far from the Founding Father's wishes of the nation, but I fear that the wishes and hopes of the Founders for the American nation was always nothing but a dream, and the one that is presently dreamed bears no resembalance to the original. Words can only take you so far, they can inspire and motivate, but they cannot do it for you.

I don't know, perhaps we are all only kidding ourselves as to the strengths of our convictions to our principles, as to the strength of our pledge to a dream worth fighting for. Once you're awake...you're no longer dreaming...that is a loss of incalculable innocence.

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 08:41 PM by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by elysiumfire
Are you willing to stand up for that principle no matter the cost, or are you going to buckle, give in and surrender to what will be inevitable if you do? You're being blackmailed to accept a path that is unconstitutional, far from the Founding Father's wishes of the nation, but I fear that the wishes and hopes of the Founders for the American nation was always nothing but a dream, and the one that is presently dreamed bears no resembalance to the original.

Nice post.

I think the majority of us are willing to pay the price if the overwhelming opposition to the bailout is any indication.

I know personally, I will suffer whatever has to be suffered in order to keep my Constitution in place, unharmed by its enemies.

Americans have been asleep at the wheel, but I am very proud how many of us have been listening to this nightmare tale the powers that be are spinning about how we are all going to suffer if we dont let them have their way with us and saying, "Bring the suffering on. We will manage somehow. You arent having your way with us."

Dont waver, America. You grandparents and parents and in some cases you yourself have already dealt with a depression. We can make it work. Losing a home is bad, but another one can be found. If we lose our country, where will we find another America? She is the only one of her kind ever born, and I seriously doubt we will get a second chance if we let her be disemboweled by traitors that would trade sovereignty, liberty, and freedom for gold.

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 09:43 PM by Anonymous ATS

The US is all we got, and I for one will die for it......I have a family like many of you here, but I can't see bailing out crooks who will do the same with 700 billion as with that in which they had....Let them fall, if we don't
cut the head of the snake now, there will be no stopping them ever!

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 10:15 PM by Comind

reply to post by Truther

It's difficult to make predictions about what is going to happen because there is so much that is unknown about the current financial crisis (e.g., counterparty risks, derivative exposures, values assigned to mortgage backed securities (MBS), etc...).

Perhaps this whole thing is the work of the NWO, but perhaps it is just the result of human greed run amok, starting with the 'brilliant' idea that mortgages could be bundled together and sold like stocks (i.e., securitized). Banks and brokers made money on these transactions (via fees) and played the idea for all it was worth, not stopping until they had signed up the last deadbeats they could put in a mortgage.

When the party was over, they were left holding a lot of MBSs themselves (that's how 'brilliant' they really were). The problem is: if they mark them to the value that other institutions are willing to pay for them, then they wipe out the equity of their shareholders--and they also have to raise capital to meet their reserve requirements.

So banks are clinging to the cash that they have, not only to bolster their reserves but also for fear of loaning it to other banks who might go bust. The fact that nobody knows what the other bank is really holding or counterparty to is the transparency issue.

What's also unclear and inconsistent is what happens when a bank or broker dealer fails. In some cases bondholders have been wiped out. In other cases, only the shareholders were screwed. In any case, it's a bad situations for the bankers. They are not doing well at all. The only ones who are really making out are the CEOs who were given absurd employment contracts. The boards of directors who granted these deals should be tarred and feathered--but that's an entirely different thread.

Why should we care about how the banks and brokers are suffering? Because we depend on that industry to keep our ourselves and our employers healthy. If your employer can't get a loan to finance a project, they may lay you off. If you can't get a loan to buy a car, you may have a real problem--not to mention the car dealer who is trying to stay in business. Businesses will cut back and lay people off. These people will buy less from retailers who will lay off even more people. And so on it will go as we spiral down into recession or even depression.

The people who rail against the 'bailout' don't seem to realize the effect it may have not just on them, but their friends and parents and kids. The bailout is really for them.

Don't get me wrong, I think the bonuses on Wall Street over the last few years were obscene. They gave as much as 2/3rds of the earnings of the firms to the employees in the form of bonuses. That is ridiculous and a bubble if ever there was one. I'd also like to see people prosecuted for their role in bringing this on us. But we clearly need to do something to avert disaster and the bailout is as good a plan as I've heard so far.

Note: the Fed has been very careful to not create inflation with their actions so far. Only the stimulus package appears to have been inflationary. If the Fed / Treasury can sell $700B in bonds, they will avoid expanding the money supply (and hence creating monetary inflation) even with the bailout. In other words, if enough folks send in $700B to the Fed (in exchange for IOUs called bonds), then the Fed / Treasury can simply inject that money into the banks. No money is created--it just changes hands.

And the dollar has been going UP relative to other currencies as money returns home (i.e., the rich and institutions go to cash).

The real problem: assets (houses) are overpriced and risk is underpriced (rates too low). If you had $2M, would you be willing to buy four mortages paying 8% interest?

There is a lot more to say but lucky for you, I am out of space!

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 10:37 PM by jefwane

reply to post by Comind

Well at least you understand the issues. I can maybe even agree that it may be good for me in the short term. I can't support this bailout for several reasons. Most importantly the debt incurred by this won't be paid for by me, it will be paid for by my 2 year old daughter during her working life. Second I don't trust the same people that caused this mess to be the ones overseeing it. Third nothing leads me to believe that those responsible for this will be held accountable---no indicments, no charges, no lifetime bans from working in finance (I'd prefer their heads on a pike or swinging from a lamppost but would settle for the more civilized punishments). Fourth foreign entities seem to have direct access to the taxpayers wallet. Fifth it's not guaranteed to work, hell if it doesn't thats almost a trillion that could have been spent rebuilding or on social programs during the coming Depression. Sixth the $700 Billion amount is total BS, it's a basically a $700Billion revolving credit line. Seventh it reeks of private profits and public losses.

I will never vote for anyone who supports this bailout and will actively oppose them in any office that they should persue in the future.

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 11:50 PM by meadowfairy

Very good thread. I had strong feelings about this economic collapse that sometthing seemed fishy about it.

reply posted on 2-10-2008 @ 02:45 AM by ofhumandescent

reply to post by Truther

All the important "issues" are "controlled". People that have money and power leave nothing to chance and this statement is most true in particular when you speak of $$$$$ MONEY$$$$$.

The money "issues" we are now having were perdicted by David Icke over a decade ago.

PROBLEM - REACTION - SOLUTION

Problem: Create a "problem" a orchestrated issue of importance, make sure you build up the fear factor in people. (The banks are failing)

Reaction: Nurture a specific and particular reaction out of the sheeple. (OMG our money system is not working)

Solution: Once, the first two are firmly in place present the "solution" your solution, the one that will profit you. (Let's have a one world banking system run by a very small elite group of the filthy rich and really take all control away from the people once and for all, this will really tie them into the NWO System and further their enslavement).

Wake up, with people in power, nothing is left to chance. I have seen people in power and they do not operate by the seat of their pants like the rest of us. EVERYTHING is calculated right down to which way the toilet paper will roll out. An issue as important as money and power is never ever "just left to happen".

Always asks yourself, who stands to profit from the "solution" presented. Many times it initially appears "the people" but that's a sales technique to sell the solution.

We're being corralled into the truck headed for the slaughter house.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by ofhumandescent]

reply posted on 2-10-2008 @ 03:02 AM by ofhumandescent

And for everyone "worried about our Constitution" read Naomi Wolf's The End of America, GWB and his administration have already altered the fabric of our Constitution and most people simply choose to not be aware how much so it has already been altered.

Part of this is because most American's are not really educated when it comes to voting. They watch CNN / Fox (propaganda news network owned by the "haves" and "have mores") and read the newspaper (also owned by the "haves" and "have mores") and consider themselves educated when in fact they've been manipulated into a certain "mindset" and don't even realize it.

People are not getting out and really researching, reading, probing who the best canidate(s) really are...............it's so much easier to vote party prejudice.

People buy into all the smear campaigns that are sidetracking everyone from the real issues.

Our economy is in the toilet, our Constitution has been majorly tampered with and like a old car, maybe it's time for a overhaul, but God, don't say that, most people want to keep on going the way we've been going and to suggest updating our Constitution is oftentimes met with harsh criticism. What most people don't realize is our Constitution has already been altered quite a bit from it's original and times they are a changing.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by ofhumandescent]

reply posted on 2-10-2008 @ 06:02 AM by Nineteen

reply to post by ofhumandescent

Spot on with your appraisal here. Further support of this viewpoint may be found at www.marketoracle.co.uk... Bailout Bill Marks the End of America as We Know It? written by the brilliant Richard Cook.

reply posted on 2-10-2008 @ 06:08 AM by semiunknown

Hmm.. controlled or allowed?

By any quick search on the interweb (heh heh) you can easily find numerous reports of this "economic activity" dating back over a year. Whether or not the powers that be pulled the necessary strings to make this all go down or foresaw it all and chose to do nothing, I honestly cannot say. Either way, this could've/should've been prevented but they didn't and it wasn't.

Let them take the hit, we can use this as an opportunity to re-think how much control we have given to these criminals and hopefully correct our situation. Either way, it's going to be a long recovery. Let's make the most out of it.

reply posted on 2-10-2008 @ 08:05 AM by bruxfain

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by bruxfain

Some of us are. Some of us would like to hang on to the sovereignty of the USA, and, even though perhaps good argument could be made for a North American Union, we expect our leaders to be up front with us, give us a choice in the matter, a say, a vote. This is not their country. It is OUR country. Theirs and ours. Anything that someone has to plot out behind my back and try to spring on me I distrust. I have heard nothing from them about why they might want this. In fact, I have heard nothing official about it at all.

If this is good for us, let them lay it out. Let them show us and let us decide if we wish to go along.

Ok, that is a statement. And, I am not arguing against it because there is nothing to argue against at this point. I am willing to listen to your analysis. Please explain how this bailout will destroy America's enemies, and either support it with argument that can be linked to, or your own laid out as well as you can. I am open minded enough to want to listen, but you have to provide some reasoning here. Not just a statement.

After all, I can make the statement that this is being done by reptilian aliens from the planet Zogwa, and that they are acting in concert with Russia. A statement means nothing if not supported.

Can you support this statement that Paulson is attempting to rescue us? Any evidence that shows his record on trying to restore the Constitutional approach to money in the US? Anything at all that would lead us to believe that this is altruism and not a coup attempt on his part?

I am looking forward to your reply. It is an interesting premise, I have not yet heard this spin on the situation, but as it stands unsupported there is not enough to make it convincing in anyway.

[edit on 1-10-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

Fair enough, I agree.

Even though the press calls it a "bailout" I am not sure that it is. Its more like a salvage operation. Banks in general will cease to exist as independent entities and will become agents of the US Government, directly under the control of the Secretary of the Treasury and by extension the American people. Furthermore, investment banking is gone and at the very least the remaining pure investment operations will be indirectly under the control of the government.

The gist of this salvage operation is that banking as it has been known for the last 80 years is being dismantled. Whatever takes its place is yet to be seen.

As I have been told, the problem with the banks, both here and abroad, was exposure to the anti-prime mortgage market. To me that means that the banks were financing the construction of the 21st Century Tower of Babel. The tower has been destroyed and the banks are left holding the paper.

To understand what I just said will take a library of books for you to read, so accept it or don't. All I know is that the banks were directly involved in something that they could no longer cover up themselves. They couldn't cover it up because the people who would have covered it for them are without the power do so. Banking is completley naked and the people that would have saved them from embarrasment were probably KIA.

Paulson serves at the discretion of the President, Bush leaves office in January and so will Paulson. I am not aware that the bailout plan changes the basic nature of the treasury secretary. He happily submits to the authority of Congress, symbolized by his bowing down at the feet of Nancy Pelosi. Nevertheless, the treasury will control the banks and congress will control the treasury, therefore the congress will control the banks, as outlined in Article 1, section 8 of the Constitution.

The concept of the overly ambitious, power hungry public servant is passe. Real power exists in this world and everyone feels it. Paulson and anyone else in Washington has the ability to retire comfortably and enjoy the fruits of their labor and noone elses; the idea of trespassing against the people at this point in time also includes the conclusion of getting your head kicked in with a steel toed boot, not literally. So, I don't overly fret about conspiracies these days, as the consequences appear quickly and cannot be overcome.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by bruxfain]