Russian nuclear bomber flies undetected to within 20 miles of Hull

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
They have retired the nighthawks. So sitting in a boneyard would make them quite useless.

Yes, all forty of em....

As for the B-2 we know they have flown to within 5miles of moscow before with out detection.

Just like the US navy managed to orchestrate the coup of being able to track all Soviet ballistic missile submarines at once? Right.... They wont let the B-2 fly over Yugoslavian airspace without large numbers of support aircraft ( to suppress radars etc) but they send them on lone missions to test the best air defense network in the world? Sure....

And the blackjack is an enlarged copy of the original B-1 that Carter scrapped. So how can it be the most advanced bomber in the world when it was copied on 30 year old tech.

Well this is certainly interesting so just give me some of the sources you used to arrive at this conclusion.

Stellar

I think A is talking about the Valkyrie. The Yugoslav deal was they were really scared of losing their best plane because that was the first time it went to war. They found out that it was all safe so now it does what it is intended to do.

The Blackjack could make a high speed run just off the deck and pull this off as any other fighter can do. The fact is though that it would have been picked up by any Navy ship in the area if there was one out there. I really don't see them flying the deck the whole way there because they would burn to much fuel.

More than likely this is just an excuse to whine about defense spending cuts anyway and we all know that the Blackjack has a huge stand off range so getting this close is just for show.

I would really like to see this confirmed by someone we could trust and if anyone seen it in its whole flight to Britain.

I don't trust anything that the Russians claim after they showed that Blackjack doing a bomb run to drop the father of bombs and then show the video of it sliding out of the back of a cargo plane on a skid.

Originally posted by Zaphod58

Originally posted by PhilltFred
The F-117 is a fighter, not a bomber. And if true to form, there are other even more advanced aircraft will in deep black that has yet to see the light of Jane's Defence Weekly.

The F-117 for various reasons was designated a fighter, when in actuality it was a tactical bomber. It had NO air to air capability at all, and only carried two bombs.

It was flown by "fighter pilots", but all its missions were bombing missions. It's F-117 designation was more due to its size than any else, than anything else other than the training track of its pilots.

Does it really matter if the bunker you are in gets hit by a bomb that comes from an F-117, a B-52, or a B-1, or a B2?

Did anyone mention that the F-117's have all been retired?

Yes that was mentioned a few times.

When we were at Pease AFB they took almost 1/3rd of the FB-111 pilots and maintenance personnel to work on the "Night A-7 upgrade". They were really working on the F-117s. The 'Vark was similar to the F-117, in that it was a bomber rather than a fighter, but it was capable of carrying the AIM-9 family. So it did have SOME limited self defense capability. The original F-117 pilots were tactical bomber pilots.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
I think A is talking about the Valkyrie.

Right and as far as i know it could not and did not do a round trip of 14 Km. As far as my knowledge goes the experimental aircraft did enough over North-American skies to send the Russians into a legitimate panic; a flight to Moscow were hardly required to affect the balance of power as it was in 1966...

The Yugoslav deal was they were really scared of losing their best plane because that was the first time it went to war. They found out that it was all safe so now it does what it is intended to do.

They in fact found out that stealth aircraft are subject to the same laws of physics and combat as anything else and that's why they had to protect it with everything they could.

The Blackjack could make a high speed run just off the deck and pull this off as any other fighter can do.

Any fighter can not mimic the performance of a intercontinental bomber.

The fact is though that it would have been picked up by any Navy ship in the area if there was one out there. I really don't see them flying the deck the whole way there because they would burn to much fuel.

They have more than sufficient fuel to make the trip at low altitude and as for Royal Navy ships their aren't that many air defense ships ( six i believe) and i wonder how many are used for this type of coastal defense.

More than likely this is just an excuse to whine about defense spending cuts anyway and we all know that the Blackjack has a huge stand off range so getting this close is just for show.

Sure because we all know the Russians really aren't a threat to anyone and that defense spending is all entirely wasted.

I would really like to see this confirmed by someone we could trust and if anyone seen it in its whole flight to Britain.

Why? Isn't the point here merely that there is no good way for NATO to stop Russian from doing this if it wanted to? You don't think Russia has escorts fighters enough to protect the Blackjacks up to launching positions? What about the the alleged penetration of Canadian airspace some time ago and more interestingly what about the overflight of Guam?

www.reuters.com...

I don't trust anything that the Russians claim after they showed that Blackjack doing a bomb run to drop the father of bombs and then show the video of it sliding out of the back of a cargo plane on a skid.

Didn't know about that but frankly that bomb couldn't have and wouldn't have fitted. Either way you don't seem like the type to be easily impressed with air show maneuvers or silly propaganda stunts such as flights to the British coast so lets just agree that it might not have happened but that there isn't British capability to stop it from happening if the Russians ever made a serious attempt.

Stellar

[edit on 6-10-2008 by StellarX]

Originally posted by StellarX
What about the the alleged penetration of Canadian airspace some time ago...

What about it? It's unusual to see you grasping at straws with vague and unsupported claims. Just like the Guam case I suspect this is a little embellished, to say the least.

Originally posted by StellarX
...and more interestingly what about the overflight of Guam?

There was no overflight of Guam. The irresponsibility of the media to quickly jump on an unconfirmed and sensational story is another matter altogether however.

According to Pentagon officials, two Russian aircraft were detected on Wednesday flying south toward the Pacific island. But they did not come close enough for U.S. aircraft to intercept the flights.

"U.S. forces were prepared to intercept the bombers but they never came close enough to a U.S. Navy ship or to Guam to warrant an air-to-air intercept," said Lt. Cmdr. Chito Peppler, a Pentagon spokesman.

Another defense official said the Russian bombers were about 305 miles from Guam and about 100 miles from any U.S. aircraft, which were flying as part of a training exercise in the area.

Link

A further case of embellishment and sensationalism can be seen in this case...

The bombers were among four Russian Tupolev 95s launched from Ukrainka in the middle of the night, including one that Japanese officials say violated their country’s airspace over an uninhabited island south of Tokyo.

U.S. officials tracked and monitored the bombers as two flew south along the Japanese coast, and two others flew farther east, coming closer to the Nimitz and the guided missile cruiser USS Princeton.

As the bombers got about 500 miles out from the U.S. ships, four F/A- 18 fighters were launched from the Nimitz, the official said. The fighters intercepted the Russian bombers about 50 miles south of the Nimitz.

At least two U.S. F/A-18 Hornets trailed the bomber as it came in low over the Nimitz twice, while one or two of the other U.S. fighters followed the second bomber as it circled.

The official said there were no verbal communications between the U.S. and the Russians, and the Pentagon has not heard of any protests being filed by the United States. Historically, diplomatic protests were not filed in such incidents because they were so common during the Cold War era.

Link

[edit on 6-10-2008 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by Zepherian
1) There were no interceptors available? How dumb do you have to be to believe that the RAF would not respond to a nuclear bomber 20 miles off the coast?

I'm thinking they were out intercepting another bomber (diversion).

Originally posted by Zepherian
2) A blackjack? Seriously? They can't detect a 20 year old plane or whatever? And where the hell did it come from? A direct line to england passes over or very close to at least 3 EU union countries... Nobody saw it?

What of the fact that it's 20 years old? Are you aware that the B2 is also 20 years old? It really means nothing.

Russians have been known to fly strategic bombers from the Arctic, far away from any radars.


In regards to the theory that something like this would never be released, etc - well it could be for various reasons, but more so, from the way the article is written (stating a pilot as a source first), it seems like the information was somehow leaked.

Originally posted by Manincloak
Russians have been known to fly strategic bombers from the Arctic, far away from any radars.

I hope the Russians think the same thing. Even during the early years of the Cold War the US/NATO had the capability to see very far across the arctic. So far that in one instance we even hesitated on telling a U-2 operating near the North Pole that is was off course. It was headed South and approaching Soviet airspace. We could even detect the Soviet fighters that were scrambled to intercept him. And all this in 1961! We did not want the Soviets to know we could "see" that far, subtle hints were made that he was off course.

All the information in this case is far from being made public. Don't believe what you read.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by WestPoint23]

reply to post by StellarX


SIMPLE......ENGLISH APATHY....Why not they are caving to every thing else ,why not defense....

Now we know why Russia was so mad about that radar...
i would be mad too if i was planning on bombing people in a few months.
and some country on the other side of the globe put a radar up to stop me lol

prepare prepare....

Originally posted by beforetime
Now we know why Russia was so mad about that radar...
i would be mad too if i was planning on bombing people in a few months.
and some country on the other side of the globe put a radar up to stop me lol

prepare prepare....

Greetings Before Time......Indeed prepare !! The unfortunate circumstance is the majority of ocupants of this planet do not know what to prepare for...
These are exciting times ....My prayer is that I will be alloyed to survive..

reply to post by deathpoet69

Do not upset! Everything will be fine! You are sure to bomb us! Try to finish with Iraq in the next 100 years and then easily bomb us always!

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by Manincloak
Russians have been known to fly strategic bombers from the Arctic, far away from any radars.

I hope the Russians think the same thing. Even during the early years of the Cold War the US/NATO had the capability to see very far across the arctic. So far that in one instance we even hesitated on telling a U-2 operating near the North Pole that is was off course. It was headed South and approaching Soviet airspace. We could even detect the Soviet fighters that were scrambled to intercept him. And all this in 1961! We did not want the Soviets to know we could "see" that far, subtle hints were made that he was off course.

All the information in this case is far from being made public. Don't believe what you read.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by WestPoint23]

Wow nice bit of sci fi going on there, next you will tell me they have the capability to tell me when I fart, if it was silent and deadly or loud and proud, maybe even subtly hint through cooking programs interupting my tv viewing, on a healthier lifestyle to rid me of the smelly farts!

Anyway you were not born in 1960's, so do not talk about something you read US propeganda on. The most advanced radars known are Russian in origin. Even they cannot detect craft beyond the signal return range.

Not to mention the computers back in the 60's, had no where near enough processing power to make them as precise as your claiming.

As far as the bombers buzzing the UK, I would be worried as heck if this was true, I have every reason to believe it to be true, numerous undetected buzzing of Us carrier groups is one reason I believe this story to be true.

It possibly was leaked, the guy who leaked it will be silenced (assuming they find out who it was lol), any cover up will be geared towards making it look like the UK knew what was going on, so as to not send the populace into panic. Russia will probly deny anything of the sort, they sent there message loud and clear. I am just glad there is no major army bases, raf airfields etc in Birmingham , less likley to see some white hot pre emptive strike.

It's called OTH-B radar. It has a MINIMUM range of about 500 miles. It can't see anything closer than that, because it bounces the signal off the ionosphere to see.

Originally posted by Saf85

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by Manincloak
Russians have been known to fly strategic bombers from the Arctic, far away from any radars.

I hope the Russians think the same thing. Even during the early years of the Cold War the US/NATO had the capability to see very far across the arctic. So far that in one instance we even hesitated on telling a U-2 operating near the North Pole that is was off course. It was headed South and approaching Soviet airspace. We could even detect the Soviet fighters that were scrambled to intercept him. And all this in 1961! We did not want the Soviets to know we could "see" that far, subtle hints were made that he was off course.

All the information in this case is far from being made public. Don't believe what you read.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by WestPoint23]

Wow nice bit of sci fi going on there, next you will tell me they have the capability to tell me when I fart, if it was silent and deadly or loud and proud, maybe even subtly hint through cooking programs interupting my tv viewing, on a healthier lifestyle to rid me of the smelly farts!

Anyway you were not born in 1960's, so do not talk about something you read US propeganda on. The most advanced radars known are Russian in origin. Even they cannot detect craft beyond the signal return range.

Not to mention the computers back in the 60's, had no where near enough processing power to make them as precise as your claiming.

As far as the bombers buzzing the UK, I would be worried as heck if this was true, I have every reason to believe it to be true, numerous undetected buzzing of Us carrier groups is one reason I believe this story to be true.

It possibly was leaked, the guy who leaked it will be silenced (assuming they find out who it was lol), any cover up will be geared towards making it look like the UK knew what was going on, so as to not send the populace into panic. Russia will probly deny anything of the sort, they sent there message loud and clear. I am just glad there is no major army bases, raf airfields etc in Birmingham

, less likley to see some white hot pre emptive strike.

The Distant Early Warning (DEW) Line was installed in 1957, and had the ability to peer well past the North Pole using various technical capabilities and "tricks" using the environment of the far north.

Radars were not computer controlled in the 1950's and early 1960's. However, talented radar operators who sat on a scope for 8-10 hours a day were often very, very accurate in their ability to measure range, bearing, elevation, etc. Having been a radar operator in the past, and having spent a great deal of time detecting and measuring Soviet military aircraft with electronic sensors, I know Westies comments to be not only accurate, but common knowledge amongst people who do this kind of thing.

Soviet / Russian military radars are interesting, and occasionally innovative, but on the whole they are crap. They are unreliable, use poorly-manufactured components, and are maintained by unskilled operators and maintenance personnel. As a former employee of a US company that produced the finest military radars in the world, I can state that with confidence.

The fact of the matter is that with regards to Russian strategic aircraft conducting long-ranged missions, more often that not we are aware of their mission prior to them even going "wheels up". And yes, I was born in the 1960's.

Originally posted by primamateria

Russian nuclear bomber flies undetected to within 20 miles of Hull

www.dailymail.co.uk

A Russian nuclear stealth bomber was able to fly within 90 seconds of the British coast without being picked up by radar, it was revealed today.
The supersonic ‘Blackjack’ jet flew completely undetected to within just 20 miles from Hull in one of the worst breaches of British security since the end of the Cold War.
RAF radar eventually picked up the plane, but the only two pairs of fighter jets used for air alerts were on other duties.

(visit the link for the full news article)



Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
russian plasma stealth
Russian TU-160 Blackjack..

They stopped with only 20 miles to go?!

reply to post by Dan.Dare


They probably got a good look at hull and realised what a sh*t hole it is, figured any bombing would be counter productive as it would only improve the place and went home instead for vodka

Originally posted by expatwhite
reply to post by Dan.Dare

 

They probably got a good look at hull and realised what a sh*t hole it is, figured any bombing would be counter productive as it would only improve the place and went home instead for vodka

reply to post by hinky


I can verify that the US does in fact not say what they see such as the Chinese sub and this aircraft. While it is certainly possible that both surprised us, it is doubtful and the US actively deceives it's adversaries with propaganda. I have seen it first hand. That Chinese sub likely had a US attack sub sitting right behind it =). Russia is not a threat right now as they are not our enemy like they used to be. We simply do not react to thier saber rattling every time they do a flyby.

I imagine Russia is pissed that the US fly's Aurora sorties directly over Moscow on a monthly basis .

[edit on 31-10-2008 by Xeven]

Originally posted by Saf85
Wow nice bit of sci fi going on there, next you will tell me they have the capability to tell me when I fart, if it was silent and deadly or loud and proud, maybe even subtly hint through cooking programs interupting my tv viewing, on a healthier lifestyle to rid me of the smelly farts!

I can't do anything about your flatulence problem, however I can offer some information which you might find interesting.

The incident I mention occurred on 27 October, 1962, that's a very significant day, if you know your history. It might have had something to do with the Soviet response. Anyway, this U-2 flight was piloted by Capt. Chuck Maultsby. There were two U-2's that day flying air sampling missions from Eielson AFB, Alaska. Their flight path took them near the North Pole, Capt. Maultsby was obviously off course. The Soviets detected his presence and scrambled a significant amount of fighters to intercept an intruder over the Chukchi Peninsula.

I have more information on the incident if your curiosity has been peaked. However you can find mention of this incident on a documentary titled On the Brink: Doomsday

Originally posted by Saf85
Anyway you were not born in 1960's, so do not talk about something you read US propeganda on.

That's the most illogical thing I've ever heard. I have more than 40 years of declassified material and history over the people alive during that time period. If anything that gives me a huge advantage in sources and information, not to mention I have no Cold War preconceptions or hysteria prevalent during the time.

Originally posted by Saf85
The most advanced radars known are Russian in origin. Even they cannot detect craft beyond the signal return range.

Your credibility was shot from the first sentence but this just nails the coffin shut. The overwhelming majority of the "most advanced" radars currently in operation are definitely not of Russian origin nor in operation by Russia. Historically Russia has also not had a larger share of radar innovation than Western countries.

Originally posted by Saf85
Not to mention the computers back in the 60's, had no where near enough processing power to make them as precise as your claiming.

This is getting comical. Here is an easy start, List of Radars.

This is just one example.

Cobra Mist was based on the Naval Research Laboratory's experimental MADRE radar, which was able to reliably detect aircraft at ranges up to 2,000 nautical miles (3,700 km) from its base in Chesapeake Bay. With prior setup, MADRE was even able to detect rocket launches at Cape Canaveral, and atomic tests in Nevada.

With this successful demonstration, the US Air Force started plans to deploy a similar system in Turkey, providing coverage of much of the western part of the Soviet Union. Tenders for the system outline were placed in 1964, and followed the next year for bids for the actual system itself.

Cobra Mist

Clear Air Force Station in Alaska was already operation by 1960 and had enough radars to detect anything from ballistic missiles to aircraft. OTH-B radars are not "precise", they can't be at the wavelengths used. They can however detect a large formation of enemy aircraft (among other things) from thousands of miles away and give their approximate geographical location. I can't comment on other capabilities more specific than that which such a radar may offer its operators, not my line of business.

Originally posted by Saf85
...numerous undetected buzzing of Us carrier groups is one reason I believe this story to be true.

Numerous? One incident, and it was not "undetected". That event has already been discussed at length here on ATS. The aircraft were detected well in advance. The Carrier was undergoing UNREP at the time, not to mention the wind factor and, I'll admit, bad posture and reaction from the skipper.

Ask Zaphod if you require more information, I'm sure he can point you in the right direction.

Link

[edit on 31-10-2008 by WestPoint23]

reply to post by Saf85


Saf,
West Point has told you how it is and we both know it is really much better than that. Initial contacts from DEW radars included multiple reflections from the lunar surface which caused some high anxiety until it was figured out.
Russian radars are powerful but not very reliable and are susceptible to electronic trickery. They are getting better through acquisition of other countries' technologies and not through any fault of their own R&D.
Flyovers of carriers were common during the cold war but in the open ocean NO carrier group was unaware of approaching aircraft. There are many photos of Bear's flying over a carrier with USN escort aircraft. F4 Phantom's would sit down on the air flow coming over a Bear wing for the photo-op and the Bear pilots would get really nervous about that move. Gotta love them Navy zoomies.
If the carrier in question was undergoing a vertical unrep and had his deck fouled or was steaming downwind, shame on him, but it wasn't due to undetected aircraft. Maybe the CO wanted to retire early.
Pteridine