Was the holocaust a fake ?

Originally posted by B
Ofcourse it wasn't fake

But I do believe the whole "Jews" matter is blown up! I mean there were other people killed too in those concentrations camps!!! Not only Jews, I never hear someone talking about that. Imho the Jews use the Holecaust to hide themselves so no-one would criticize theyr actions in Palestina...

Of course a lot of Jews died in the Holocaust I can't deny that but we can't live in the past can't we

The actions that Israel is taking recently are way out of line!

We know all that socialists are almost all pro-palestine. It seems that they forgot something : Arafat IS A TERRORIST who started his " career " in 1972 ( Munich Olympic Games ).

Also, Israel is a democracy and Sharon have been elected. I do not remember that Arafathave been elected by the palestinians. And I wonder why you don't support palestinian opposition.

Oups, I forgot. There is NO palestinian opposition.

thanx bob..thats what the person was telling me ...that it wasnt 6 million more like 1.5..thats still alot!!!...he was also telling me some more stuff...for he reads alot on it ...you and only a couple people can put that in a polite way...and for the others..DID YOU NOT SEE WHAT I POSTED AFTER THAT..too many people that i have noticed in these threads..like to resort to sarcasm ,and name callign ...HOW PATHETIC PEOPLE !!!GET A LIFE ..WHY DONT YOU TRY BEING LIKE THAT IN REALLIFE AND NOT ONLINE

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix

Originally posted by B
Ofcourse it wasn't fake

But I do believe the whole "Jews" matter is blown up! I mean there were other people killed too in those concentrations camps!!! Not only Jews, I never hear someone talking about that. Imho the Jews use the Holecaust to hide themselves so no-one would criticize theyr actions in Palestina...

Of course a lot of Jews died in the Holocaust I can't deny that but we can't live in the past can't we

The actions that Israel is taking recently are way out of line!

We know all that socialists are almost all pro-palestine. It seems that they forgot something : Arafat IS A TERRORIST who started his " career " in 1972 ( Munich Olympic Games ).

Also, Israel is a democracy and Sharon have been elected. I do not remember that Arafathave been elected by the palestinians. And I wonder why you don't support palestinian opposition.

Oups, I forgot. There is NO palestinian opposition.

If you really can't stand me out just say it in my face mmmmkay. And to me it looks like you've lost your human aspect! You only are intrested in economy & politics...

I can assure you if you ever have a big financial setback in your life or something your toughts will change! Remember my words when that happens, remember them

Oh and may I remind you that George Bush also was "elected" .... Do I hear Florida??? Do I hear Jeb Bush??? My Two Cents > If that ever had happened in an African or Asian country, the UN would've been there before you could've sneezed

No what happend in Florida was a constitutional violation ... the Floridian supreme courts made a decision that violated the constitution, when the supreme court came in and resolved the matter, the Democrats started yelling "NOT MY PRESIDENT"....way different than what's going on in other nations when they have political disputes.

And where's the UN in Sudan? They could use a little help, hell they could have used help 50 years ago, but no help has ever come...did you know Sudan has been fighting a Civil War almost since about the end of WW2!

Sincerely,
no signature

hey guys dont call the question stupid... a lot of people have said that the holocaust was fake. of course, i cant say i agree with these people. i have no idea what is going through their heads, but to me it seems that they are trying to deny that such hatred went on in the world. and to say that the whole "Jews" thing is blown up, well, the holocaust was essentially about the Jews, but many other people (non-Aryans) were hated as well. for example, 4 million or so non-Jewish Polish people were killed in the holocaust, as were many people of the eastern-european and slavic countries. but as Elie Wiesel said, (if you havent read his book "Night", you should) "the people who deny the holocaust are corrupt" and we should revere those who died and remember them through stories and only the truth.

technically it coulda have been faked, do i belive it was, no,

i belive it was real and it happened, was it as bad as they said probably not, alot of just as cruel things dont get a mention, but it was a bad bad thing but its all in the past now, we need to forgive and forget and try to help the people who are going through the same kind of thing now...

Well, I have done a lot of research into this. I say the Nazis never had plans, nor carried out mass gassings of Jews or anybody else. If you doubt, why not read Nuremberg trial transcripts and ask yourself where this evidence of holocaust is?

Did you know the Nazis were accused of killing 20000 Jews with an atomic bomb?

Did you know the 1st gas chamber was a thatched roof cottage? How did that work?

How is it physically possible to gas, plunder bodies,[ cut off hair, pull gold teeth] and burn bodies[with no fuel] at the rate of 375 per hour, 24/7? This is according to confession of Hoess that 9000 a day were gassed. A confession written in english and signed by a man who only spoke german.


1 "surviver" said that when she and the other ladies went to shower, they never knew if gas or water would come out of shower head!

The SS supposedly used mobile gas chambers to murder 1 to 1 1/2 million. Is it not surprizing none of these trucks survived the war? No pictures, no production drawings?

Has anyone read Hitlers "final solution" speech? If so, will you please tell me how this means genocide?

In short, I have not seen any plausible evidence of mass murders, but have seen fake pictures and BS witness accounts. If I see a picture of a lady walking, holding hands with 2 children, I should believe they are walking to gas chamber even though all I see is 3 people and no gas chamber, no nazis, or no barbed wire, or anything other than 3 people?

I have seen Nazi documents of executions that people claim as proof of genocide. These very documents show that only men between 16 or so, and 60 or so, were executed. Why didn't they kill women and children?

Why did the Nazis import Jewish slave labor if the goal was to rid themselfs of Jews?

If the Nazis murdered those too sick and weak to work, what was the purpose of having Bergen-Belsen?

Why did Auschwitz have a sign that read:
"4 million people suffered and died here at the hands of the nazi murderers between 1940 and 1945" until replaced in 1995 with a figure of 1 1/2 million? Why is 6 million still accepted as total number? Where did these other 2 1/2 million die?

These are but a few questions and observations.

[Edited on 6-12-2003 by Stirfry]

Originally posted by The Blade Runner
technically it coulda have been faked, do i belive it was, no,

i belive it was real and it happened, was it as bad as they said probably not, alot of just as cruel things dont get a mention, but it was a bad bad thing but its all in the past now, we need to forgive and forget and try to help the people who are going through the same kind of thing now...

Amen.....brother. Hitler was an evil man..but it probably got blown way out of proportion of what he did. It's all how much and what the media will tell you...the media is all propaganda. The masses look back on what they were told and it's all what and how much they were told when they were growing up. There are more factors involved though...like demographics...etc....but all in all...what you are exposed to (eat...hehe).....is what you are. Forget what who did to who...and move on...learn to respect....and to help one another to find the truth of getting along. People of power (NWO) don't want it that way...that would mean a world revolution....woohhhooooo...let's do it!

To believe that the Nazi Holocaust never happened is an insult to all those that were murdered!! There is far too much evidence to refute such an insulting claim. To read a point/counterpoint to the "holocaust never happened" argument, read:
shamash.org...
For some of the grisly, horrendous pictures see:
shamash.org...

Numbers of missing Jews (post-war minus pre-war):

Germany - 195,000
Austria - 53,000
Czechoslovakia - 255,000
Denmark - 1,500
France - 140,000
Belgium - 57,000
Luxemburg - 3,000
Norway - 1,000
Holland - 120,000
Italy - 20,000
Jugoslavia - 64,000
Greece - 64,000
Bulgaria - 5,000
Rumania - 530,000
Hungary - 200,000
Poland - 3,271,000
USSR - 1,050,000

Less dispersed refugees (308,000)

Total number of Jews that were exterminated = 5,721,500

ask any jew with a number on his or her arm. and im pretty sure you could ask some old SS stromtroopers too. holohcaust fake? where the # did they dig that one up?

[Edited on 12-3-2003 by KrazyIvan]

look at who published this at the bottom of the web pages. Who's to say these figures are totally correct?
Some of those publishers are Jewish...it's biased. Hitler killed all "kinds"...not just the Jews...he "weeded" out threats and the weak. After WWII...the same empowered group of people went to Russia and America...and are still in power...just to "weed" out the threats and weak. A religion is just an excuse to kill...not a right. People all around us are dying day after day..and only for one thing...MONEY!!

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
ask any jew with a number on his or her arm. and im pretty sure you could ask some old SS stromtroopers too. holohcaust fake? where the # did they dig that one up?

[Edited on 12-3-2003 by KrazyIvan]

Have you seen a jew with a tatoo? Where are the stormtroopers now? I agree about the "fakeness"...but what you learn from the media and so forth...it's not all the details either. Movies...TV news...etc..you get the idea...is owned by the jewish mafia....basically the NWO...segregate...discriminate....make the masses hate. Divide and conquer would be the better simple terms...hrmm...like a "silent" war. Answer this..who's at war with who right now? You will get the idea.

I did a search and I found that CrazyIvan lives in Russia. Hey...CrazyIvan...the same propaganda that America lives with and thinks is the "truth" to what is going on in the world today...is a huge lie. Look back to about 1947...at the end of WWII...things were chaotic...people of any denomination were dying (mostly n Russia and America...the Europe war was over by then)...it was just a simple matter of who was a threat or weak to the NWO's methods. Hitler was basically..the beginning of the NWO...and is still going on as of today. The Holocust was a terrible thing...and the "goverment" are still doing what they do best...BLOOD for MONEY!!

[Edited on 3-12-2003 by xenongod]

holocaust never happened, no gas chamberes were found in tact, the one they stidied had residue consistant with gas use for killing parasites not humans, usa are the evil ones, vietnam, timor, mayans etc etc

Originally posted by banjoechef
holocaust never happened, no gas chamberes were found in tact, the one they stidied had residue consistant with gas use for killing parasites not humans, usa are the evil ones, vietnam, timor, mayans etc etc

You got it. Hrmm...do you mean "USA" are the the evil ones? And if so...How do the mayans get involved? Or are you just thinking that it is all a lie...all of it? It's what you see in all of the media....it's brainwashing. I take it in as entertainment..not a truth. I wish more eyewitnesses would tell us what really happened...instead of what people learned off of the TV and the media.

Originally posted by jezebel
To believe that the Nazi Holocaust never happened is an insult to all those that were murdered!! There is far too much evidence to refute such an insulting claim. To read a point/counterpoint to the "holocaust never happened" argument, read:
shamash.org...
For some of the grisly, horrendous pictures see:
shamash.org...

Numbers of missing Jews (post-war minus pre-war):

Germany - 195,000
Austria - 53,000
Czechoslovakia - 255,000
Denmark - 1,500
France - 140,000
Belgium - 57,000
Luxemburg - 3,000
Norway - 1,000
Holland - 120,000
Italy - 20,000
Jugoslavia - 64,000
Greece - 64,000
Bulgaria - 5,000
Rumania - 530,000
Hungary - 200,000
Poland - 3,271,000
USSR - 1,050,000

Less dispersed refugees (308,000)

Total number of Jews that were exterminated = 5,721,500

Yes, I have seen these pictures and more. The piles of shoes crack me up. Inmates were issued wooden shoes.
That shrunken head is labeled property of South African museum.
The picture of a cremation ditch is interesting. It was supposedly taken by an inmate and smuggled out. Let's say it is real. If these murders were secret, why are they burning bodies within the camp? Wouldn't people getting off the train see?It would make it tough to get them to go to the shower! I thought the idea was to not let them suspect anything.
One of the execution photos strikes me funny. Are those Russian soldiers? What branch of german military do those uniforms belong to?
I saw a picture on Holocaust website that claimed it was a "surviver". The man in the picture is standing in front of a crematory oven. The man sure is neat and clean! Even his shoes are shined like a mirror!
I have seen picture of old woman "about to be executed". There is snow on the ground and the soldiers are dressed in cold weather clothes. The woman is dressed in summer clothes! Just like the photo of naked women, it is a cut and paste job. Look at the photo of the women "executed" Do you see any blood? Can you explain how they have remained in kneelling position after being shot? Can you explain the lack of shadows? My explaination is they were cut and pasted. Why would someone fake pictures? Where is the real evidence? Can someone explain why the total number remains 6 million after Austwitz total was reduced from 4 million to 1 1/2 million?
According to Chambers Encyclopaedia the total number of Jews living in pre-war Europe was 6 1/2 million.
The World Jewish Congress Unityin Dispersion states "The majority of the German Jews left Germany before the war"
Statistics show that there were only about 3 million Jews in all of occupied Europe.
As I said, I have researched this and can only conclude the holocaust is a lie.

[Edited on 6-12-2003 by Stirfry]

A letter from SS-Sturmbannf�hrer Jahrling to SS-Generalmajor Kammler, specifying the cremating capacity of the five Auschwitz crematoriums as 4,756 per 24 working hours. Source: Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, J.C. Pressac, The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York, 1989.

I get the impression, Xenongod and Banjochef, that you think I have a problem with Germans because of what the Nazis did. I assure you this is not the case. I don't even hate the Nazis for their actions. They were weak minded and brainwashed by a very influential man. I am also well aware of the USA's atrocious behavior and destruction of those deemed unnecessary or inferior. That doesn't give me the right to deny what happened in Nazi Germany, however.

This is from a recording that exists today in the national archives, if you care to research it:

Speech by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler at Kharkow, April 1943
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 572-574]

I mean the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish
race. It's one of those things it is easy to talk about, "the Jewish
race is being exterminated", says one party member, "that's quite
clear, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, and we're doing
it, exterminating them". And then they come, 80 million worthy
Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are
vermin, but this one is an A-1 Jew. Not one of those who talk this way
has watched it, not one of them has gone through it. Most of you know
what it means when 100 corpses are lying side by side, or 500, or
1,000. To have stuck it out and at the same time - apart from
exceptions caused by human weakness - to have remained decent fellows,
that is what has made us hard. This is a page of glory in our history
which has never been written and is never to be written.

I ask of you that what I say in this circle you really only hear and
never speak of. We come to the question: how is it with the women and
the children? I have resolved even here on a completely clear
solution. That is to say I do not consider myself justified in
eradicating the men - so to speak killing or ordering them killed -
and allowing the avengers in the shape of the children to grow up for
our sons and grandsons. The difficult decision has to be taken, to
cause this Volk [people] to disappear from the earth.

[This speech was recorded; the magnetic tapes are in the national
archives in Washington, DC]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Order of Commanding General in Serbia, October 4 1941, ordering mass
execution of concentration camp inmates for the killing of 21 German
Soldiers
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals -
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XI, p. 976]


2. In all garrison towns in Serbia all Communists, male residents
suspected as such, all Jews, a certain number of nationalistic and
democratically inclined residents are to be arrested as hostages,
by means of sudden action...

3. If losses of German soldiers or ethnic Germans occur, the
territorially competent commanders up to the regimental commanders
are to decree the shooting of arrestees according to the
following quotas:

a. For each killed or murdered German soldier or ethnic German (man,
woman or child) 100 prisoners or hostages.

b. For each wounded German soldier or ethnic German, 50 prisoners
or hostages.

The shootings are to be carried out by the troops.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes From Diary of SS-Doctor Kremer, while in Auschwitz
['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press,
NY, 1988, p. 256-268]


The Auschwitz camp plays a special role in the resolution of the Jewish
question. The most advance methods permit the execution of the
Fuehrer-order in the shortest possible time and without arousing much
attention. The so-called "resettlement action" runs the following
course: The Jews arrive in special trains (freight cars) toward
evening and are driven on special tracks to areas of the camp
specifically set aside for this purpose. There the Jews are unloaded
and examined for their fitness to work by a team of doctors, in the
presence of the camp commandant and several SS officers. At this point
anyone who can somehow be incorporated into the work program is put in
a special camp. The curably ill are sent straight to a medical camp
and are restored to health through a special diet. The basic principle
behind everything is: conserve all manpower for work. The previous
type of "resettlement action" has been thoroughly rejected, since it
is too costly to destroy precious work energy on a continual basis.

The unfit go to cellars in a large house which are entered from
outside. They go down five or six steps into a fairly long,
well-constructed and well-ventilated cellar area, which is lined with
benches to the left and right. It is brightly lit, and the benches are
numbered. The prisoners are told that they are to be cleansed and
disinfected for their new assignments. They must therefore completely
undress to be bathed. To avoid panic and to prevent disturbances of
any kind, they are instructed to arrange their clothing neatly under
their respective numbers, so that they will be able to find their
things again after their bath. Everything proceeds in a perfectly
orderly fashion. Then they pass through a small corridor and enter a
large cellar room which resembles a shower bath. In this room are
three large pillars, into which certain materials can be lowered from
outside the cellar room. When three- to four-hundred people have been
herded into this room, the doors are shut, and containers filled with
the substances are dropped down into the pillars. As soon as the
containers touch the base of the pillars, they release particular
substances that put the people to sleep in one minute. A few minutes
later, the door opens on the other side, where the elevator is
located. The hair of the corpses is cut off, and their teeth are
extracted (gold-filled teeth) by specialists (Jews). It has been
discovered that Jews were hiding pieces of Jewelry, gold, platinum
etc., in hollow teeth. Then the corpses are loaded into elevators and
brought up to the first floor, where ten large crematoria are located.
(Because fresh corpses burn particularly well, only 50-100 lbs. of
coke are needed for the whole process.) The job itself is performed
by Jewish prisoners, who never step outside this camp again.

The results of this "resettlement action" to date: 500,000 Jews.
Current capacity of the "resettlement action" ovens: 10,000 in 24
hours.
------------------------------------------------------------------
But I guess all of this documentation, and hundreds more, are bull# as well. People will believe whatever suits their conscience, I suppose.

What about this document?
www.codoh.com...

The numbers claimed to have been cremated by ovens is simply not possible. The method of open ditch cremating, as described by Muller, is not possible.
Documented coke deliveries do not add up to numbers claimed cremated. You cannot burn bodies without fuel.
It is interesting that the amount of coke delivered does add up to the documented number of people who died of "natural" causes and were cremated.

Most people are too shocked by these photos of mass graves and horror stories to question the events. Yes, A lot of people died. That doesn't mean they were gassed.
Most pictures of mass graves, including the film of bulldozers pushing bodies in a pit, were taken by the British after liberating Bergen-Belsen. This was a camp that people too sick to work were sent. Nobody, to my knowledge, claims this was an extermination camp.
Naturally, the death toll at Bergen-Belsen was very high.

People should be aware of the fact that starvation and disease had reached masive proportions by the end of the war.
I believe the Nazis treated the Jews much the same way blacks were treated in the US.
I researched the holocaust because like most people, I wanted to believe the powers that be, were telling the truth. I cannot ignore facts, and the holes in the holocaust story are too numerous to hold water.

I am not pro-nazi, or anti-jew. I just want the truth.

[Edited on 6-12-2003 by Stirfry]

I personally know a woman who was in one of the Nazi camps. When she was 6 yrs old, they branded her back, just below the shoulder blade. I saw the brand it left, it's a horrible thing to see that, so the next time anyone decides to disbelieve it ever happened, remember, wars and hate never cease because there are ignorant people who forget and thus, History repeats itself once again.