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Massive financial bailout fails in the House

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posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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Skimming all the posts up to now, I see most are in accord - Things Are Bad and Will Be Getting Worse.
Critically worse.

Which means something needs to be done - and fast.

So it's all only temporary.

It will pass (or a close form of it) after the new Puppet is in office.

If we even get an election in Nov.


...taps...


[edit on 29-9-2008 by silo13]




posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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I'm glad to hear this bill didnt pass, and I thank all those who contacted their reps and let them know what they thought. Good job and way to speak up. That said I'm sure the next version will pass.

On a side note, if I have a citibank credit card, and they go under, what happens with my debt on that card?



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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I heard they could revote on Thursday, or the Senate could vote on Thursday if the House passes.

Does anyone remember the Reinhart/Legatus conspiracy thread? If he's right, then Legatus' meeting in Seattle coincides with the bill's vote in Congress...then the weekend hits, and Monday (Oct 6) it hits the fan in a big way.

Let's keep an eye out!



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by pieman
 


They cannot afford to have the US fall. It is really that simple. The amount of money invested in the success of our country is disgusting. Its hard to understand, but other countries lose if they call in our debt. They don't really gain if they call in because our country would be crushed, and as a result, they would get hurt badly from the move that they made. It is self-defeating.

Also, oil is down because we are expecting a HUGE economic downturn where people won't be able to afford to spend. Oil going down is a good sign that investors expect our country to have a VERY rough future.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit
The system needs to crash. We need to get rid of the FED and start following the constitution. Lets ditch the 16th Amendment also.


As painful as this sounds, I 100% agree.

The American economic system is now all about money. It is all about new investment schemes and obtaining credit. There is no innovation. There are hardly any new goods which are being developed. Why is it that hedge fund managers make more than engineers and inventors? Why is it that corporations that produce anything are moving overseas while corporations that give us credit cards are still running strong in the highest taxed areas?



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by XTexan
 


You won't be able to get credit, at all. The credit market will freeze at that point, and unless you can pay for things with cash (assuming you don't lose your job), you are going to have to sell or default and lose big.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by grimreaper797
 


okay, look at it another way, are the countries that are invested in the US the biggest fans of US economic principles? who's the US in hoc to, china? russia? they've both been happily in crisis for decades.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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You know, in any self-respecting government administration, leaders who make continual mistakes or have major calamities during their rule (9/11, Iraq, circumventing constitutions, economic recessions) would do the right thing and step down. Bush presented a bailout package to his country. His country rejected it. Does that not show a lack of confidence in Mr. Bush's leadership abilities?
I say, "Screw the date of Nov. 4. Get that bum out of office NOW!!".



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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Let's see how long the naysayers will hang on. The dollar is getting stronger, and watch gold prices skyrocket today. Dang, dare we hope?



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by pieman
 


Their economic growth, which they are experiencing big time, depends on our success. Credit. If credit fall apart and banking collapses (our banking system and many other countries banking are connected, hence the term globalism) then china and russia can't borrow anymore either.

That is just as ugly for them as it is for us.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by grimreaper797
 


But you're re-inflating a bubble, regardless. Someone put it best here on ATS, "It's like putting a band aid on your neck after your head is chopped off." You'd simply be flooding the market with more invisible money (weakening the dollar), relying on people to go out for more credit(invisible money borrowed on unsecured assets), Short selling junk credit, and causing the bubble to only grow larger because of fiat currency at interest, junk assets, issuance of credit, and the failure that issuing credits to people who can't pay with an ever diving dollar due to FED flooding hundreds of billions of dollar in the world markets. It can only take so much until it...POPS.

These people are thinking they're going to sell these sludge debt to foreign countries when China, Japan, and Europe are all shaking their head no.






[edit on 29-9-2008 by DeadFlagBlues]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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Hunter S. Thompson was investigating 9/11 before is suicide [murder?] in which he said,

In 2002, Thompson told a radio show host "[Y]ou sort of wonder when something like that happens, well, who stands to benefit? Who had the opportunity and the motive? You just kind of look at these basic things [...] I saw that the US government was going to benefit, and the White House people, the Republican administration to take the mind of the public off the crashing economy.

[Link]

Who knows here folks, I am not going to make some outlandish predictions, but just something to keep in the back of your head.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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Does anyone have any news from the house or anything? The stocks are rising some to like -650 and I'm kind of surprised by it. Has big news been announced in the last 10-15 minutes?



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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It's time for everyone to call their representatives again and not only oppose the bail out but to ask for criminal justice. These people need to be held responsible for their actions and a judge needs to tell them to get the money and get it now. It's all on paper so it shouldn't be to hard to track down the ones who messed this up. It's time for our government to cut taxes ( corporate, excise, state & federal etc..) Are they going to just keep disagreeing and do nothing in the mean time or can they act now and cut taxes? I'm glad they voted no on the bill because it shows that it's wrong and both parties know it. It's time to clean up our free market and let it run free. Free of government involvement, speculators, unregulated lending practices etc... Call your representatives and let them no.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by grimreaper797
 

why is it ugly for them? in the long run, wouldn't russia and china be better off if the US collapses? realistically, both are pretty self sufficient, they don't rely on the US to the extent that europe does. if the US is no longer driving it gives either or both an opportunity to take the position.

short term pain is doubtless but the long term gain may be worth it.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by DeadFlagBlues
 


Tell me, if you fell from 1,000 feet or 10,000 feet, what is the difference? The amount of time before you hit the ground. A fall that, either way, is a sure shot to kill you. Thats what this is.

The only difference is if we postpone a collapse, we have the ability to change policy and try to work our way out of this. It will still be a recession, but at least it wouldn't be a collapse. Would we change policy? Possibly, but who knows.

What I do know, is that a collapse, a fall from this height, is a death sentence.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by pieman
 


So you are saying that russia and china can successfully continue their growth with a frozen credit market?



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by St Udio


(we all know that the House voted down HR3997, because is really wasn't about 'Mortgages' held by the general american population, at All ! ->
the bill was about the Wall Street Bankers & the credit creation machine for 'their' own profit!)



the expected backlash by the loud Democrat minority is in motion...
ole Barney Frank leading the mob

before i get drowned out in the stampede,
i wish to underline & highlite my view that Barney Frank & cohorts are purposely basing their whole 'Spun' on the 'mortgage' outrage...

they are spinning the heartstrings of the voting public on the false notion that the present credit market seizure an freezing is because families cannot pay their mortgage payments.

What a Spin & Lie & Deceitfull ploy !!

the $200Billion bailout/assistance takeover of FreddieMac & FannieMae the two GSEs...was the long-term solution to the RMBS problem.

think about it... the CDS and CDOs which have elements of mortgage
paper woven into that securities underlying asst value...
are ->Admittedly Leveraged at 30-50-90-to one.

so there is little Mortgage involvemment....

the rest of my previous post was 'Lost' in the ATS computerized posting program

[edit on 29-9-2008 by St Udio]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
Does anyone have any news from the house or anything? The stocks are rising some to like -650 and I'm kind of surprised by it. Has big news been announced in the last 10-15 minutes?


I was wondering the same thing reaper. What happened to cause this last minute rebound? It is down 538 now, a jump of over a hundred points in a short period of time with no apparent reason.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by lynn112
 


I'm looking around for an explaination. This didn't happen the last two times in the past two weeks that negative news came out.



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