Massive financial bailout fails in the House

reply to post by grimreaper797


They are protected by the FDIC I believe they took over, so the people with money in the bank are fine.

reply to post by grimreaper797


yes she should, tell her to run. nah, i think citibank bought them out.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


This may sound odd to you, but debt no longer matters. You think we are ever getting out of 10 trillion in debt? Whats another trillion? Its all about foreign faith in the dollar. Foreign countries would have still supported the dollar with this bailout.

This is a fiat currency, it's value is what others believe it to be. We are never getting out of debt, with or without this bill. Letting the markets crash only destroys the average americans ability to survive.

The markets aren't dropping (so far) quite as I thought they might, but the DJ took a nose-dive right after the voting was closed.

My personal take is that the markets need to be shocked into doing something, because otherwise all we do is delay the ugly death of the way the markets currently function.

The system is flawed, and before we know it, we could be bailing out every bank in America and the UK! The UK Government have just bailed out another bank this past weekend.

It can't go on - these people have created a problem, and are expecting to be saved. They should not, and I hope this defeat sends them a message.

They're just saying on BBC News 24 that Bush warned that the economy is on the "verge of very serious problems". I think we're there - I think we're just delaying the inevitable.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

the news is quoting Obama as saying that he will make sure this bill go through.

anybody think he has more power than Pelosi to do it?

reply to post by jam321


No, he won't be able to do it. It will go through eventually, but it won't matter what he or McCain have to say about it.

How much power does he have from the campaign trail, anyway?

great now I wont be able to walk downtown without having to look out for falling investment brokers!

Keep in mind though that we still had over 200 votes yea that's 200+ who voted against the will of the people...now we need to move to remove them!

reply to post by grimreaper797


That's fine and dandy, but it would have been a very temporary recovery, followed by incredible inflation and complete loss in buying power with our dollar. That's why I think it's a ploy so that the ultra rich have a buffer to get out high before the # totally hits the fan. Our debt right now is bad, but it's doable. Russia worked their way out of similar debt within a decade and are on exponential rise. We can't afford the 700 billion that will come for many reasons, including inflation and the interest on it. The more in debt we are, the more strict tax provisions get, and that affects us all.

I see now CNN is stating that the Dems did not get the revote they have been asking for since this afternoon started. Thier analysts are still stating that things are not really that bad. They seem to want to push it down everyones throat that things are fine and that this whole thing is nothing more than poilitical posturing.

But I'm a little concerned, i'm starting to wonder if anything can actually fix this mess. seems that things are going downhill quicker and quicker. I hope and pray that things will actually balanceout in the end. As living in Canada I am deeply influenced in what happens in America. Being America is our biggest trading partner and visa versa.



Now i know people are dooming and glooming this out to be an all out Riot, and destruction of the lives we live in.

My question is this....say for some reason the market actually crashes and the economy goes to crap....what kind of fallout are we really looking at here. And in that case what kind of backlash am I going to be looking at as a Canadian Citizen??

Amazing how Pelosi can mention this bailout and say she is protecting the middle class. If she wants to protect the middle class she needs to apply those 700 billion to their mortgages and credit cards. That would put money back into the bank and get rid of some of these bad debts.

edited because it didnt post what i wrote.

this sounds like bad news for me. i am a server and thats my income bc i'm a full time student (with scary student loans of course that have me increasingly worried day by day. hopefully the economy will be booming by the time i graduate!)

everyone make sure to still go out to eat at the cheesecake factory thanks, haha.

so... since i know NOTHING about economics, would anyone mind explaining to me why bailing out these companies would have helped us and not them? I don't get it... how much of an affect does this have on us as citizens? why is our money affected if its them who are failing? can somone do an economics/wall street for dummies for me?!?

i feel lost

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Seekingmyself]

reply to post by pieman


Citi isn't strong. If this bailout doesn't pass within the next month to two months, I expect citi to be one of the banks to go under. And unlike Wachovia and WaMu, nobody will buy them out, JPmorgan and Bank Of America already recently made big deals (WaMu and Meryll Lynch respectively), and Wells Fargo I don't think has the ability to buy up a failing citigroup.

Citigroups figures, unlike JPmorgan and Bank of America, do not support the move to buy out a banking institution the size of wachovia. Without the bailout I have little faith that citigroup will be able to handle the losses.

Wow,who knew these guys in congress still had some backbone left in them they just showed everyone that not only are the american people tired of the scare tatics but so are more than a few congress people as well.The House of Reps just told the president and the international bankers to DROP DEAD!!!

reply to post by grimreaper797


meh, she could always keep it under her mattress i guess!! if all the banks collapse it won't matter where her cash is as it'll be devalued regardless.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
That's fine and dandy, but it would have been a very temporary recovery, followed by incredible inflation and complete loss in buying power with our dollar. That's why I think it's a ploy so that the ultra rich have a buffer to get out high before the # totally hits the fan. Our debt right now is bad, but it's doable. Russia worked their way out of similar debt within a decade and are on exponential rise. We can't afford the 700 billion that will come for many reasons, including inflation and the interest on it. The more in debt we are, the more strict tax provisions get, and that affects us all.

Um, you realize that the entire system would literally COLLAPSE if the banking sector goes under, right? First it starts with frozen credit markets. Smaller businesses suddenly can't get money to pay for anything. Farmers can't borrow to buy fertilizer, etc. Next, the banks start closing and millions of jobs are lost. More than 5 million people in the US work for banking institutions.

More businesses start to close because they have no credit flow. More jobs are lost. Unemployment skyrockets. That means tax revenue plummets. Job cuts are needed in the government to keep the government from defaulting. That continues the cycle. Its an utter collapse.

The government would go under, and that debt would be impossible to get out of.

The chain reaction that results from a collapse of the banking sector is a full out, point of no return, collapse of the entire system. Everything is connected in this age. We will all go under should banking collapse.

reply to post by jam321
Pelosi and others for this bailout are now getting reamed by thier wall street contributers,jam I bet W is now curled up in a fetel position in the oval office affraid to answer the phone!

Originally posted by grimreaper797

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
That's fine and dandy, but it would have been a very temporary recovery, followed by incredible inflation and complete loss in buying power with our dollar. That's why I think it's a ploy so that the ultra rich have a buffer to get out high before the # totally hits the fan. Our debt right now is bad, but it's doable. Russia worked their way out of similar debt within a decade and are on exponential rise. We can't afford the 700 billion that will come for many reasons, including inflation and the interest on it. The more in debt we are, the more strict tax provisions get, and that affects us all.

Um, you realize that the entire system would literally COLLAPSE if the banking sector goes under, right? First it starts with frozen credit markets. Smaller businesses suddenly can't get money to pay for anything. Farmers can't borrow to buy fertilizer, etc. Next, the banks start closing and millions of jobs are lost. More than 5 million people in the US work for banking institutions.

More businesses start to close because they have no credit flow. More jobs are lost. Unemployment skyrockets. That means tax revenue plummets. Job cuts are needed in the government to keep the government from defaulting. That continues the cycle. Its an utter collapse.

The government would go under, and that debt would be impossible to get out of.

The chain reaction that results from a collapse of the banking sector is a full out, point of no return, collapse of the entire system. Everything is connected in this age. We will all go under should banking collapse.

How close do you think we really are to that kind of collapse? seems like it may be just around the corner but im not sure for certain...what are your thoughts?

Originally posted by jam321
Amazing how Pelosi can mention this bailout and say she is protecting the middle class. If she wants to protect the middle class she needs to apply those 700 billion to their mortgages and credit cards. That would put money back into the bank and get rid of some of these bad debts.

As much as I want to fully blame the goverment for this mess, and the banks, the American people deserve just as much blame. Just because people were offered so much credit, no doc mortgages, and so on, doesn't mean they needed to take them. People need to start learning to live within their means, not living the life of the credit card. I remember when layaway was the way to buy stuff you couldn't afford at the time. Now it's credit-credit-credit.

So while many of you may have been super responsible, the majority of Americans have gone nuts with their credit cards, and buying houses they simply can't afford. People look at a mortgage of 1300 and think that their house costs them 1300, which is ludicrous. They don't even ponder upkeep, taxes, insurance, and so on. I'd guess a huge % of Americans are living in a house much more expensive than they can afford.

So yes, our government and Wall Street have been a bunch of buffoons and greedy ceos, but like someone who smokes: don't blame the company for your inability to stop smoking. People brought this onto themselves as much as anyone. Why should they bail out our own stupidity? If it's not good for Wall Street and the banks, it also should be the same for the regular joe. There is too little accountability for these issues.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Wachovia is down more than 80%. My sister has funds in wachovia and she wants to know if she should remove her funds from the bank. I'm on the fence right now.

Keep them in dont pull them out yet.

Someone spoke with a senior legislative aid on the Hill and was told that the bailout is definitely dead for today and Tuesday in light of the the Jewish Holiday.

Pro-bailout negotiators will begin reaching out to Reps who voted Nay to tweak the deal and change their minds. A vote to reconsider is possible for Wednesday, but more likely for Thursday or Friday. It is a major blow toboth Nancy Pelosi and the Administration that the Taxpayers prevailed in round one. Expect arm-twisting of epic proprtions in round two.


"The process of this bailout reminds me of a panic-stricken swimmer thrashing in the water only making his situation worse." - Ron Paul


[edit on 29-9-2008 by ModernAcademia]