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Originally posted by Man_Versus_AntiMan
Im not trying to be argumentative here but surely the Bail-out is a good thing isnt it?
If these middle-tier financial institutions dont get financial aid they go down. And if they go down then they are absorbed by Morgan, Rockefeller etc.
Wont the bail-out help stop monopolisation?
Originally posted by nixie_nox
You know why people don't want to help the banks?
Because when has a bank ever helped out a civilian?
Originally posted by grimreaper797
So you are ok with the loss of your job as a result, as well as a lack of a place to live?
If this market goes under, say good bye to your life. You aren't rich, you cannot up and move your assets to a foreign market. You will suffer more than any business owner.
You propose that we cut into the profits to teach those responsible a lesson, disregarding the fact it will destroy million upon millions of american lives in the process.
The taxpayer WILL pay, whether it be by a bill or a bullet. A collapse would be a bullet to the chest.
Originally posted by grimreaper797
Do you not remember history? Do you not remember what comes out of the ashes of desperation and depressions?
Hitler, Mussolini, even our own HUGE growth in centralized government, ALL happened during depressions that created desperation among the people.
You say let the system fall so that we may rebuild. Human nature and history show that what will be rebuilt will be a monster.
There is nothing here that shows me that this will be any different. Our people are more complacent than ever before.
They are more dependent and likely to look for government to save them.
If this system goes down in flames, you can bet every penny that people will look to government to save them, rather than save themselves.
At that point, the constitution won't matter nearly as much to people as survival.
HISTORY shows us that letting the system collapse, is always a bad decision.
What are we buying time for? To easy this market into a recession. To let the correction occur so we can bring balance and order back into the system.
YEARS of poor government policy got us to this point, and it will take some time, painful time, to pull ourselves out of these mistakes properly.
To do years of damage, then call for it to be paid in full in the matter of a couple weeks, is a death sentence.
Originally posted by mecheng
That's crap. Just because a bank says you QUALIFY for a $275k loan does not mean you can AFFORD a $275k loan.
I simply do not believe that most of these people were so stupid as to not know what their monthly payment would be when they signed for that $275k loan... the banks tell them that!
People who signed for sub-prime mortgages were hoping their house would appreciate, and when their equity (from the appreciation) was enough to get a standard loan, they could still have the house they couldn't originally afford.
There were no guarantees. IMO they gambled and lost... just as much as the banks. They all were simply looking for the quick buck, screwed up, and now want someone else to bail them out.
I drive around in complete and utter amazement at how many beautiful million dollar homes there are... each with new luxury cars, boats, etc. in the driveway...
and wonder where the hell everyone is getting their money from to pay for all of this. My wife and I both are smart, college educated, hard working, but still have to live paycheck to paycheck.
Now, I think I get it. This is the typical American way... make as much $$$ as you can, doing as little work as possible, and when that doesn't work, claim you were treated unfairly... Screw that!
I don't mind helping out the average, hard working Joe Lunchbox, who lost his house because of a layoff, or unforeseen circumstances. But I'm DONE bailing out the rich... the lazy... and the incompetent!
They've had their fun for the last decade on my dime.
Its always the hard working that get screwed in the end.
Now it's time for these people pay their dues.
All of these people are con-artists. Its their nature, and they are trying for the biggest con in history. Well I say tough $hit! Crash and burn baby... CRASH & BURN!
What many people refuse to acknowledge or admit is that this crisis did not start during Clinton's time or Bush's time but were in fact initiated in the mid 70's and that what has followed have all been predicted by those who created the system in the first place. This is the ultimate cost of corporate empire building and now that the host have been largely exhausted they will continue to exploit their power to extract the massive reserves of wealth that remains; the hard work has been done and the ultimate payoff is fast approaching.
Politicians accused Fuld of earning more than $500 million in bonuses and wages while working at the bank, including $106 million in 2006 alone, while failing to properly address Lehman's difficulties.
"While Mr Fuld and other Lehman executives were getting rich, they were steering Lehman Brothers and our economy toward a precipice," Henry Waxman, the chairman of the committee, said on Monday during Fuld's testimony.
He denied earning $500 million during his time at the bank, saying it was closer to $250 million, although he acknowledged it was "still a large number".
He said it was unclear why the US government did not rescue the 158-year-old Wall Street firm but stepped in to save others, and said US financial regulators knew the full scale of the bank's problems far before it folded.
But Waxman said the US could not continue "to have a system where Wall Street executives privatise the gains and then socialise the losses".
"Accountability needs to be a two-way street," he said.
Originally posted by poet1b
I think this is a pretty solid observation.
There are a number of factors that have been driving world economic swings since the seventies. Oil is probably the biggest.
The U.S. Public's love affair with the automobile has been one of our biggest problems, combined with the highly profitablity of the oil industry, and therefore their interest in keeping us completely dependent upon autos for transportation.
The recent rise of oil prices is probably the biggest factor in this crisis. By most evidence, peak oil arrived in 2005, and the easy to get high quality crude is running out, and so future production is going to get far more expensive.
This means our energy industries are going to have to re-tool, and most likely our transportation systems as well.
The looming global oil crisis is going to make the problems with these massive population growth areas very, very bad in the not too distant future. I could go on and on.
Originally posted by guyopitz
I'm surprised we have yet to see an army of the homeless wielding Molotov cocktails marching on city hall. People are probably too broke to give handouts so they can afford the vodka rags and lighters. Sad really.
Originally posted by poet1b
While I will have to disagree with your belief that peak oil has not arrived,
I will point out that my claim is not that we are running out of oil, that is not the situation.
The problem is that we are running out of the high quality, easy to get at oil. The good stuff will be far more expensive to extract than is the current situation.
Our current best hope to keep the cheap oil floating is the Arctic ocean, being that as the ice melts, and the glaciers are in fact melting, we are not able to get at the vast reserves of oil that are in the Arctic Ocean, but it will still be more expensive than drilling in the warmer regions of the planet.
All the oil located in deep water will be very expensive to tap, and most of hte discoveries of big oil deposits are in deep water.
The cost of drilling in deep water goes up exponentially as the depth increases. The remaining easy to access oil sources are not nearly as rich, and will take considerable more cost to refine.
Here is a decent link on the subject. I could find some of the better links on the subject that give a good discussion of the issue.
Sour crude is becoming a bigger and bigger source of the oil available, and that is because the sweet crude is declining in output.
Those deep water finds are not going to become available soon. The engineering challenges of getting at them are immense.
The reality is that with current demand for energy sources, alternative energy sources are going to have to be developed, and with the rising cost of oil, they should now have a chance to compete.
High oil prices, however, may make developing expensive, unconventional oil sources—and the technology needed to exploit them—more feasible than in the past.