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Massive financial bailout fails in the House

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posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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I'm confused as to what this means...


On the news channels it's all about the markets rebound. So the day after the bailout was meant to come, after the government had told us it had to be passed quickly, this happens and there's lots of green all of a sudden? One reporter just said it was down to 'optimism that a bailout will be passed'. I suppose that might make sense if banks are thinking it can't fail twice, but i don't know.

At the same time i am seeing fear being put into the people via MSM. There seems to be lots of conflicting opinions though. Some guy was saying the markets will repair themselves another saying grave consequences if there is no bailout. i feel like they're trying to confuse the situation so nobody is sure what to do.




posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by Bunch
 


Afshin Rattansi & Max Keiser on Goldman Sachs & Toilet Paper
This YouTube interview humorously (yet so accurately!) debates the consequences of continuing money laundering proposals of the banking industry. It was posted by EvilAxis yesterday, and is a must see for ATS viewers.

The Federal Reserve is proposing to flood the market with a trillion dollars, and make the Dollar essentially worthless. It’s a money-laundering scam, and is a controlled demolition of the US financial system. The proposed bailout would allow the greatest rip off in history, and eventually would grow to sufficient proportions to make the Dollar worthless. Please see at:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvv_5Q4EfNI


The crisis was a not a crisis at all, until our President proclaimed “This sucker could go down!” That is not quite inspiring or eloquent rhetoric designed to calm the financial markets. Then out of the blue appeared a two page bill that gave over 700 billion to Paulson to spend as he pleased. Paulson was to be allowed to sell anything he wanted to anyone he wanted at any price he wanted. Paulson sells valuable assets at a loss to his friends. They reap a huge gain. The “bad paper” is now washed off the books at bargain basement prices. Corporations and insiders at Americas’ expense reap huge profits. No wonder Paulson got down on his knees and begged Nancy Pelosi for the deal! Now we have a financial Tyrant by the name of Paulson. “Please make me King of America, Ms. Pelosi, since I want to make me and mine oh so much richer!” That’s worth begging for all right.

The pertinent point is that this would result in sales of valuable assets for little to nothing to insiders, becoming the biggest piece of pie ever received by the rich. It was torpedoed, which is the best possible scenario.

Today the stock market is up 244 points as we speak. Oil went down in price when the canker sore of a bill was defeated yesterday.

When and if this or any new version mud sandwich gets passed, we could easily go the way of the Weimar Republic and reap hyperinflation.

Congress has shown absolutely no regard for the 9 million Americans that are in default or foreclosure status. It is imperative to vote against every Congressperson that voted for the bill. We have made a difference by writing and by demonstrating, and we must continue the momentum against the waste.

The power elite will not be deterred from going back again and again to ask for more pie. They have insatiable greed and PAC’s at their behest, so prepare for fight after fight against this corruption. They believe they have worn us down, and we must counter punch every new rip off variation they throw at us in the coming weeks and months. The only tool we have at our disposal is to defeat every Congressperson that voted “Yes” yesterday. I am an Independent by philosophy, but would contend that we are at the point that we are voting against people rather than for them. After all, we live in an age of political midgets.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:23 AM
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This callaspe will effect everyone. I use to be in the loan business until I lost my job. JP Morgan and BofA will be one of the last one standing because they weren't in the subprime business, but that doesn't mean the won't go down under. They too had many bad loans and I have seen it first hand, they too are bleeding right now, but r very optimistic.

Once all the foreclosure drag down home properties. Most people will stop paying because their homes are upside down, unless it's paid in full or almost paid in full. The big boys will not be able to take the pressure and will go tumbling down with the rest.

The Credit system will be no more and the unemployed will be begging for food. It is only when we are at a complete depression that things can't get any worst, but up. People say the market will work itself out, but yea it will, after everyone of us eat sh1t than than things can't get any worst but better.

See u in Canada!



[edit on 30-9-2008 by amfirst]



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by alphabetaone


That's true....although what I truly see happening is that (like you said) it just continues to stall ANYWAY, because they will throw all this 'new capitalization' into the treasuries, sit on it, and not loan anyway just to shore up their positions.




not only does the recapitalization shore up the banks or whoevers'
balance sheet... it also keeps the companies stock value up ---

just long enough for all the executives that have stock awards and options to sell their holdings are a decent price.

let's hope the fraud-squads are diligent in keeping tabs on any back-dated stock awards ... as a way around the 'excessive compensation clause' that the upper execs might get penalized with in the bailout bill.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:35 AM
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Looking into this for a deeper understanding of what's going on and I find that

1.) the U.S. fiscal year ENDS on Sept. 30th and a NEW one starts on Oct. 1st. and
2.) The Basel-II deadline for U.S. banks to be "Basel-II compliant," originally Sept. 1st, must surely come due on Oct. 1st, 2008.

Basel-II compliant banks in Europe and elsewhere will be forbidden to do business with non-compliant banks in the U.S., effectively bringing the non-compliant banks down.

China has already suspended financial lending with the US.

We already KNOW that there is a lot of illegal activities on the books of many of our (US) major financial institutions. This "Bailout" is only designed to help make the books look honest, nothing more.

BUT!!! If that was all it was, then hey, why not tell the public exactly what's going on and promise to investigate those who receive money from the bailout (like that will really happen). But, NOooo, the Gov tells us it's all about risky mortgages, toxic paper, etc.

They talk about using the funds to buy the toxic paper. Well, ummm, excuse me but... I don't want a foreign nation to end up with any kind of ownership on my property. Seriously folks, you don't think our government would be so concerned about the American public as to NOT use all that paper as collateral for more foreign loans, do you?

Bank(er)s who illegally hide/steal money are rampant in the US. BASEL-II agreement was designed to create honesty and transparency in international banking operations. The US can't become compliant, the level of thievery is so large.

This truly will have a major impact on the US (as well as many other nations). When we (US) can no longer receive credit from foreign financial institutions, then trade will cease. No if, ands or buts about it.

This is both a curse and a blessing. A curse in that we do not have the US industry in place to replace the products we will no longer be able to buy. A blessing that it will ultimately create jobs as the factories / plants are created to make those products.

Who will be hardest hit? The Oil industry! No foreign credit means no purchase of oil. Where do most politicians have their money invested? Yep... the oil industry.

We have the option of covering the thievery of financial institutions for life to go on status quo, or we have the option of having a VERY rough time while we watch the chips fall where they may and find out which financial institutions are honest (or manage to become that way through successive buy outs of failing institutions).

Neither option is a pleasant one.

Me? I prefer honesty and transparency. I am willing to go through the rough time, if only to say to all these bankers, politicians, whatevers, that ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:43 AM
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And just to further get me aggravated for the day,


In this Article on MSNBC GWB says:



"I'm disappointed by the outcome, but I assure our citizens, and citizens around the world, that this is not the end of the legislative process."


Excuse me, but SCREW citizens around the world. ORRRRR, get THEM PAYING into this damn $700 billion.... who the hell does he REALLY care about?? We're gonna be SOOO concerned about every other friggin country in this process, then damn right they BETTER be footing just as much of this bill as WE do, otherwise I dont want to hear about "citizens around the world" crap.


AB1



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by Flash_dancer


Congress has shown absolutely no regard for the 9 million Americans that are in default or foreclosure status.




I have to disagree with that thought.
Congress voted to 'save' Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae, to the tune of $200bn

Freddie/Fannie own +$12Trillion in mortgage loans in america, pretty close to 1/2 of all residential mortgages


the gov't set up a special part of the Freddie/Fannie holding to renegotiate mortgages, restructure the under-water mortgages, also to underwrite the many Jumbo loans which they couldn't do before. Only the remaining privately generated mortgages are in question now,---& those mortgages could be bought up by the Freddie/Fannie GSE...if the commercial entities would allow the mortgage holders to turn to the GSE for mortgage help.
The banking industry & places like Countrywide want to retain these non-performing mortgages so they can leverage government bailout monies ...


All this hysterical mortgage collapse panic by the three: Bush-Paulson-Bernanke are pulling is 99% bunk. the bulk of the mortgage crash has been addressed in the Freddie/Fannie=$200bn bailout. already.

thanks,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Oh, i scanned the above post... And something suddenly dawned on me.


I the Gov't bailed out Freddie Mac / Fannie Mae for a mere $200bn

& (NYSE: FRE, FNM) ...own over 1/2 of all mortgages in the USA...

Just Why Is The HR3997; Financial Stabilization Fund... set at $700Billion ?
for the remaining mortgage related bedt bailout?




somehow & someway the estimated 20million mortgages Freddie/Fannie hold can be rectified, saved, bailed out for only $200bn

the other 20million mortgages owned by the elite banks & brokers can only be rectified, saved, bailed out...for a robust $700bn

A difference of half a Trillon Dollars ! .... Why Is That ?

[edit on 30-9-2008 by St Udio]



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:54 AM
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I have also noticed how the media wants to spin this issue, is pathetic!

Instead of going after those who voted for the bill when CLEARLY the have voted against the will of the people, they are bringing in those that voted against it and make them explain their vote. There is nothing to explain, the people dont want it, PERIOD!

The MSM is calling all of us stupid and that Congress need not to heed our will becasue we are dumb and cant grasp the emergency of the situation.

My Congressman voted for it, and I let him know for sure that if he votes for this crap in the next go around he wont have my vote.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by XTexan
I'm glad to hear this bill didnt pass, and I thank all those who contacted their reps and let them know what they thought. Good job and way to speak up. That said I'm sure the next version will pass.

On a side note, if I have a citibank credit card, and they go under, what happens with my debt on that card?


Another company buys the debt and then increases your interest rate? At least that would be my guess.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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Austr alia PM calls for U.S. lawmakers to pass bailout plan

U.K .'s Brown disappointed in U.S. bailout vote


Mr Rudd said Australia, along with Britain and European powers, was working to convince US lawmakers to put aside domestic politics and approve a plan that would allow the Treasury Department to buy up toxic assets from struggling banks.


World leaders express disappointment at banking bailout rejection

Why all these people getting into our domestic policy process? Isn't there a diplomatic unwritten rule that pecludes foreign diplomats or officials to try to intervene in other countries domestic policy and political process?

People should be outrage at this also!

If these countries want to help these companies why they dont pony up 700 billion dollars, euros, pounds or whatever and come up with a bail out of their own!!!



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by Bunch
 


cause they are heavily invested and could lose if market keeps declining. In other words many markets are pegged to ours. Amazing how they want us out of their affairs but are now butting into ours. Shows what goes around comes around.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:08 AM
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Are all of you praising this outcome, totally insane?

Im no fan of Bush but I cannot agree more it's better to spend 700 more billion when a loss was reported of one trillion Dollars the other day.

America has done enough damage already to itself and the world. They should try everything possible to prevent this crisis from escalating even further.


[edit on 30-9-2008 by Mdv2]



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:09 AM
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ZIETGEIST THE MOVIE! IS IT COMING TRUE ? Large banks eating up small banks,a depression around the corner and all is needed is a major incident to happen or has it already (9-11).Then if it all goes according to the corrupt U.S GOVERNMENT eg. bankers,arms dealers and oil billionaires plans. Only thing left WORLD WAR III.OPEN YOUR EYES U.S.A



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by Truther
 


Sorry if this has been previously posted however this is a video of Ron Paul and his response to the overturning of the Bailout.
ca.youtube.com...



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:11 AM
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If you were a member of Congress on March 31, 2008, How would you interpret this paragraph from the Treasury Semi-Annual report?


Recently, conditions in the real estate market have worsened. At the same time, credit markets are being affected by problems associated with subprime loans. Together, these events are putting pressure on financial institutions, including those supervised by OCC and OTS. Accordingly, Treasury needs to ensure that it has the capability to monitor and take prompt action to address potential problems at other institutions should economic conditions worsen.


PDF file



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by antar
 


Give each American a million dollars, that is the reality I want to create.
Just 1 million per person. We would recreate the world as we know it.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by Mdv2
 


Is not about praising the outcome, is about holding people accountable and if government intervation is need it to make sure that:

1. Tax payers are protected

2. Legislation is meaningful

Right now the one to pass legislation for the sake of "getting something done", this bill introduced by Paulson and the White House doesn't address ANYTHING!. They have been flying in the dark for months now and they just HOPE that this action MIGHT help, there is no assurances here NOTHING.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by Mdv2
 


One trillion dollar lost but when the market rebounds How much of a profit do they make? Just because we invest 700B doesn't guarantee that there won't be any losses or that it will fix the situation. Many of us also believe that the government was plenty aware of this crisis and chose to allow it to become a crisis. Regardless of what politicians say on paper about this being for Main street, it isn't. We have had oversight prior to this and it wasn't done. CEO's will still get their bonuses in form of higher salaries, and main street people will still be paying part of their debt through bankruptcy court. This bill isn't to take care of main street no matter who says it is.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Mdv2
 


One trillion dollar lost but when the market rebounds How much of a profit do they make? Just because we invest 700B doesn't guarantee that there won't be any losses or that it will fix the situation. Many of us also believe that the government was plenty aware of this crisis and chose to allow it to become a crisis. Regardless of what politicians say on paper about this being for Main street, it isn't. We have had oversight prior to this and it wasn't done. CEO's will still get their bonuses in form of higher salaries, and main street people will still be paying part of their debt through bankruptcy court. This bill isn't to take care of main street no matter who says it is.


And thats the problem with this bill, you approve 700 billion now, what if dont work? Then we go back to doom and gloom again and what's next? Socialism? Communism? I mean we have already nationalize a big chunk of the financial system. We are socializing the losses of these companies, so whats next?

With all these government intervention they have forgot about a very fundamental thing : sometimes you just got let the free markets be free.

[edit on 30-9-2008 by Bunch]



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


Stocks are going up because most people think there is no way that the bill is getting shot down come thursday. Many simply dismiss the idea that there WON'T be a bailout by closing bell thursday. I hop they are right.



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