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Massive financial bailout fails in the House

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posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 03:34 AM
Without continuing pressure on our lawmakers this bill will pass. This bill is a massive waste of taxpayer money. This not only will not stem the tide of the meltdown it will only line the pockets of those that sought to screw us all over with failed loans and shady deals.

Sorry Washington We The People have made our decision, you need to go along with it.

I want to find the 12 members that voted this down and thank them for their votes. They stood up against what had to be massive political pressure, in order to stop what will be seen as the worst piece of legislative bull dunk to ever grace Washington DC.

Wall Street you don't get a blank check, Washington you don't get to wast nearly a trillion of our tax money to bail out badly run businesses, and no Mr President you don't get to rob us and take away any more of our rights! We The People Have made our decision it's up to you our lawmakers to respect that decision and vote accordingly! This is a bad plan this won't work and this will only make this crisis worse.

Let it go, the ones that are successful will prosper the ones that fail will fail.

Those that have homes going into foreclosure, I am sorry but you should not have bought more house than you could afford. This is not the taxpayers fault. I did not force you to buy your McMansion I did not tell you that this is good and you can make your mortgage payments. Why the hell should my tax money go to bail you out for a poor decision on your end?

Keep up the letter writing campaigns, keep up the emails, keep up the phone calls. This is the revolution people! This is how it will go down. Without a gun, without blood, but with words and us taking our country back the right way, by forcing those in power to yield to our will.

Yes there will be a recession, it's overdue, we have to endure it. Washington can't postpone it forever. Don't throw good money after bad. Let it happen, yes times will be tough. But we as a society got through tough times before, we will get through these tough times ahead. It's not about Wall Street, it's about Main Street. It's about the middle class, it's about the people that wake up every day and contribute to the gross national product. These are the people that need to be helped. They need to be helped by making sure that those on Wall Street do not get away with bad business and loose the money of people that work hard for it.

We should NOT bail out Wall Street but Investigate Wall Street. Don't pay them for being crooks, punish them for being crooks. If they threw away your 401K cause of bad loans, they should be held accountable for that money. If they used predatory lending practices to put you in a home you can't possibly afford they should be held accountable for those practices. We shouldn't be held accountable for their criminal and felonious assault on our economy. They should be held accountable for their bad business and those that chose this path should go down for it.

[edit on 9/30/2008 by whatukno]

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 04:30 AM
Something just came to me as I cruise the threads, passing the time during my regular sleep deprivation treatment. When was the last time the Congress Critters actually listened to the American people? Does it seem to anyone else that this quashing of the bailout in response to the people’s outrage is uncharacteristic of our ‘representatives’? Even many of the talking heads on talk radio, TV and the web are suddenly on board with this supposedly spontaneous uprising.

Here’s what my late night sleep deprived discernment is telling me: This is setting up the people to be blamed for the long planned financial crash which is now being brought about. In the future you will hear repeated the mantra that the peoples ignorance caused this by not giving the bankers what they demand. It will become the excuse for eliminating democracy as the people obviously can’t be trusted to think for themselves. Why, you don’t want another financial crash do you? Then do as your told, or you may need re-education.

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 04:37 AM
Well, it looks like democracy is not dead in American after all. I hope everyone keeps the pressure up on their reps.

The government has already put up $900 Billion to stop this mess, and that massive pot of money didn't even slow this collapse down. Heck, not even a trillion is going to stop this avalanche. The government is better off saving its resouces to clean up once this hurricane finishes blowing through town.

Credit Unions are still sound and they are doing fine. If you have money, that is the place to put it. It is the big time investors who really have their tails on the line this time. I know that the visa card credit offers haven't slowed down, so how is the market so tapped for credit?

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 04:43 AM
Over and over again, I see the public discussing both sides of a completely false dialectic process.... ($700 Billion dollar bailout). Again the federal reserve is a private entity that has never been audited in its entire history, and can create this needed money from thin air. The banking system can easily be bailed out by federal reserve notes - so why did they need Congress to pass this bill?

The real answer is they DIDN'T.

But what they did need is an excuse to collapse the economy and the $700 Billion dollar bill is nothing more than a dog and pony show for everybody to get all chatty about, it changes NOTHING. But it gives the ruling the elite the excuse they need. While the puppet media is howling (because they realize they are going for the ride as well) - everything is going just according to plan, and that plan is to put you into poverty. It cannot be stressed enough - the bill is only an excuse to create an crisis, and use this crisis as a guise to tighten liquidity on the banking system and seize your assets.

It is no different than a farmer who waters his crop (loosens liquidity) and watches his crop grow (economy flourishes.) Then at the time of harvest he halts liquidity (stops watering to dry the wheat out for harvest). Then he comes in and cuts his crop down (asset seizure after credit tightening.) After taking everything fresh seeds are planted (a new economy is started) and it is watered (liquidity is reapplied) and the cycle repeats. Your grandparents were a good example of this in action as the real cause of the financial crash was the tightening of liquidity.

The Congress voted against the bill because if they had not - the ruling elite would not have an excuse to create a crisis. This is a long term plan being craftily played out. Remember AGAIN the federal reserve can create this money from nothing, they never needed the $700 Billion. As you kill a deer you hang in the garage for a week to drain out its blood. As you kill an economy you tighten currency for a prolonged period until all the businesses and people are on their knees. Then you come in and buy all the businesse for pennies on the dollar, and take control of everything.

It works great:
- You make America a 2nd world country and the people work for free.
- Through various subsidiary corporations you quietly buy up all the industries and control EVERYTHING.
- Through the guise of an economic recession you can start labour camps and raise taxation to crippling levels.

And while this is being done to you - people can feel relieved that they 'fought the good fight' and convinced their senator to vote against the bill.

What should have been on the bill is the abolishment of the Federal Reserve and the right for them to create currency. Again everybody needs to watch the documentary The Money Masters which can be seen for free at Write your senator ONLY ABOUT THE ABOLISHMENT OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE AND THEIR RIGHT TOISSUE CURRENCY. Write them about no other issue.

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 05:51 AM
Damn, this thread got big in just the few hours I wasn't logged into the 'net...

Originally posted by alphabetaone
However, I think we should ALL hold onto our hats now, because this mess just got a lot worse...

For those who have decided to put as much of their (remaining) FRN's into offshore gold/silver Trusts, it should make "hanging onto our hats" quite a bit easier...Then no matter what happens with the US Dollar, gold & silver remain a helluva lot more stable in value than the corporate scrip we've been using since 1913.

That's what most of those banksters have done with our money for decades & you can bet your sweet bippy that this is what gives them the advantage over us. So it's time we follow suit & let the excessively-overspending federal government collapse under it's own weight. That'll make it much easier to remove the corrupted career-politicians & restore our Constitution. Even if the banksters try to re-establish itself in a new government, we merely have to remember that We the People still outnumber them at millions-to-one odds!

Originally posted by grimreaper797
This may sound odd to you, but debt no longer matters. You think we are ever getting out of 10 trillion in debt?

We have no business even trying to pay off the federal deficit in the first place...The Federal Reserve Bank was a fraud from Day One & the federal government has been officially bankrupt since 1933 anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but any "debt" owed to a fraud is completely voidable under Law...

No matter how much they may want to "show us what real failure is," remember what made America great to begin with...Helping each other as fellow human beings when needed, trade value-for-value, defending what we have & working to support each other instead of supporting a government that makes the extremely oppressive policy-making that prompted the War of Independence to start with.

After all, when the US Government even has gotten our "mother country," England, pissed at us (see the Guardian's article for violating our own Laws & even International Laws, then it's time to stand up for each other.

And yet, even while the country's attention was on this "bailout bill," Bush & Attorney General Michael Mukasey managed to sneak in even more surveillance power to the FBI...As can be seen from this letter from the ACLU. Even the Washington Post is starting to tell who's "pointing fingers at whom" nowadays too!

Well, since so many people have been asking I suppose I'll have to show something...Even though this link leads to a map, there's another link on the page that shows the vote-tally. I hate to admit that I've got my District Representative to vote against when the election comes up, no matter what I wrote or called him for...The other two State Reps are still okay though. And that one was doing a semi-reasonable job (for a politician) until now.

Oh well, you know what they say...It only takes one "Aw, $#|+" to wipe out a thousand "Atta Boy!"

Originally posted by marg6043
I will agree with this if the bill will become stagnat, but if the bill is pushed again then we may see it as nohing than a ploy.

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty; power is ever stealing from the many to the few." -- Wendell Phillips
Granted, we've gotten a significant victory against White House shenannigans here, but there's no time to rest on laurels...Bush has done a lot of damage to this country in 8 years (building on an infrastructure designed to cause damage) & there's still a long way to go!

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Um, you realize that the entire system would literally COLLAPSE if the banking sector goes under, right? First it starts with frozen credit markets. Smaller businesses suddenly can't get money to pay for anything. Farmers can't borrow to buy fertilizer, etc. Next, the banks start closing and millions of jobs are lost. More than 5 million people in the US work for banking institutions.

More businesses start to close because they have no credit flow. More jobs are lost. Unemployment skyrockets. That means tax revenue plummets. Job cuts are needed in the government to keep the government from defaulting. That continues the cycle. Its an utter collapse.

The government would go under, and that debt would be impossible to get out of.

The chain reaction that results from a collapse of the banking sector is a full out, point of no return, collapse of the entire system. Everything is connected in this age. We will all go under should banking collapse.

Ummmm....You do realize that excessive borrowing on a debt-based economy is what got everybody into this trouble in the first place? Restore the gold/silver backed economy & it'll settle...In the meantime, people have to rely on each other instead of a corrupted government & banking system. It's a system deserves to crash, because it's been the very same thing bleeding everyone dry for decades.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Once countries loss faith in our governments ability to back currency, that is when I will agree with you. Until then though, I don't agree.

Do you realize that the government hasn't been able to back our currency since 1933? The only reason that our military has been grabbing Middle Eastern oil reserves is because they've tried to keep a strong dollar-oil link...That's the reason why Bush lied about Hussein's WMD's, why they sent the military into Iraq & why they want to extend into Iran. All with a military that's already over-extended into over 130 country's world-wide.

Again I reiterate...It's a system that deserves to crash because the fraud has already perpetuated for far too long as it is. If we had never let the government default back in 1933 (no, I wasn't born that long ago; I use "we" figuratively) & kept the gold/silver backing for our money, this would never happened...The USA never had a debt until after the Federal Reserve Bank went into operation!

Originally posted by Trayen11
But I'm a little concerned, i'm starting to wonder if anything can actually fix this mess. seems that things are going downhill quicker and quicker. I hope and pray that things will actually balanceout in the end.

What we need to do is abolish the Fed Res, get our money linked back with gold/silver (get rid of that damn "fiat" corporate scrip), get industry & GNP back up in the US (instead of "outsourcing" it all) to create jobs for Americans (instead of illegal aliens), bring back our military & secure our borders from more of the "civilian invasion."

Granted it will take time & it'll be hard at first, but just as We the People denied "welfare payoffs" for them, we've also got to stop begging our own government for help too. When the government fails in its Oath-bound duty, the People have to roll up our sleeves & get to work cleaning up the government's mess...Even if it means dumping it in the compost first.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Because people aren't expecting the kind of depression we will be facing. The majority of people simply don't see whats happening here. Today was a wake up call, but they still don't see how far reaching it will be in this new globalization system we are in.

What I see is that you're one of those people who really want to see the type of globalization that so many others don't want...Does the term NWO mean anything? Yeah, the same system that's failing in the US now is the same type of crushing debt-based economy that would blanket the whole world...I sure as hell don't want to see future generations trying to grow up in that kind of mess.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Forget the 1920-1930 economics, learn about globalism and how connected we are to eachother. Learn how connected wallstreet and mainstreem are.

I'm not comparing today's credit/debt-based economy with the 1930's...Other than to point out that there wasn't any debt on such a widespread basis. The problem is that everything is too connected & most developed countries have "over-specialized" in the labor-sectors...Those that have grown too dependent on a corrupted debt-based system for an over-specialized job are the ones that'll feel it first & worst. Life will go on for those who can adapt to a changing environment...Those that don't adapt won't.

Becoming too over-dependent on a system built & sustained by lies & deceit is where the pain really starts. If the dollar crashes before the system can get changed for the better (it's time for our so-called representatives in government actually worked for the nation instead of the Federal Reserve) & we get back to a value-based economy, then who needs the dollar? It's worth only what the Fed Res says it's worth anyway...Can you survive on a diet of dollars? Why not start trading your labor for food with a farmer? I think the farmers are going to need help in the fields. Need to put a new roof over your head? You can't build it out of paper dollars, can you? Do you have a saw to cut some wood? Why not gather together with other people like yourself & work as a group on projects that you all need doing instead of borrowing paper from a bank anyway?

-----------Continued Below----------

[edit on 30-9-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 05:53 AM
-----------Concluded From Above---------

Originally posted by SectionEight
Banks will go under but shareholders will get judgements and your credit card debts will stand even though your financial institution no longer exists.

Maybe, but if/when the Fed Res Bank also goes out & the government is reformed back to Constitutional levels, then there's no legal standing left to collect on FRN's because they won't exist anymore...After all, the only "backing" for FRN's is the government's promise, so if the government's reformed, that promise is void too...

Originally posted by whatukno
Its a good thing that these markets are falling like the house of cards they are. This way we can rebuild and give every American the chance to invest in the markets and make a killing.

Actually, from the research I've been getting into lately (for the obvious reasons) indicates that investing in actual commodities (like gold, silver, platinum, timber, steel & other such items that are really needed, even worldwide) is the best bet...Leave the money markets/stocks alone.

I think some people are severely underestimating the Power of People, compared to the illusionary power of banks. Humanity didn't need "credit" to survive before & we still don't need it to survive now.

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 06:36 AM

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Im not saying the human race will end. I'm saying the life we know will end for a long long time.

Life as we know it is not going to 'end' because one paper economy folds. Life wouldn't even have ended if all nuclear weapons were detonated at ground level in the mid 80's so frankly this doom and gloom nonsense just wastes time and distracts people from concentrating on how to best keep the bankers from looting the public treasury for further weakening a currency by providing credit at such high interest rates.

Not a couple years or a decade. I'm talking long term failure. Many people WILL die because they do not know how to survive without these necessities.

People are dying in their hundreds of thousands all over the United states due to preventable diseases and this has in fact created millions of jobs and a whole economy that 'treats' them, without curing them, while extracting dollars by the bucket load. Death is a growth business and i am sure the bankers will find a way to cash in on this as much as they have on almost everything else.

People won't know what to do when farms stop being able to afford to grow food, supermarkets stop getting shipments and close house.

Why would any of this happen?

Our world is completely dependent upon the interconnectivity of businesses and their survival.

No it isn't but it's certainly what they have been and are desperately trying to do to ensure that the system does become too unwieldy and interconnected to be allowed to fail in the future. There are still plenty of nations that can survive this economic shock without serious consequence and while things might get worse before they get better they almost always do any ways.

The services they provide. We no long know how to live without them.

Speak for yourself.

Decades, maybe even centuries of progress, will be erased if we allow this to happen.


Or we will forever repeat our rise and destruction, never furthering as a species. We will erase our progress everytime we make some. By condoning us to erase the progress we have made with such a collapse, we doom ourselves to limitations as a species.

So bailing out the bankers is basically a evolutionary necessity in our view? Is there any way i can , like you, get paid to think up and/or repeat such nonsense?


posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 07:33 AM

Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by TheOracle

Because we are operating under globalism. Fiat currency is not a US exclusive operation. Neither is credit. The countries will fail because they all rely on businesses to function and produce to support the value of their currency. Businesses without the credit market will fail because none of them have the on hand capital to function for any length of time.

Forget the 1920-1930 economics, learn about globalism and how connected we are to eachother. Learn how connected wallstreet and mainstreem are.

Again I am not saying countries like China and Russia will not be affected, of course they will.
My point is they arent addicted to credit and spending like we are, therefore the consequences will be less dramatic for them. Not to mention that many in those countries arent living to our standards. I have spent some time in Russia and many people dont even have credit cards.
They wwill cope much better than us if something realy bad happened.

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 07:51 AM
I sense and underlying theme coming from all the cable news networks. It is that somehow the American people are going to hurt most because of the financial crisis.

Ali Velshi from CNN spent most of the afternoon and evening yesterday with his charts and graphs extolling the virtues of banks and trying to drive home the point that WE need bankers and even stated that WE shouldn't "cut off our nose to spite our face." He was selling it! Is it normal for a news station to have such an obviously biased view on the topic. If this goes on for much longer, this guy just might have a meltdown of his own; on air.

Is this a threat coming from the industry? Is this some kind of shakedown? One fundamental truth I know about the industry, which ,oddly enough, I was once proud to work in and considered making it a career, is that Bankers are Middle Men. There is nothing that can change this. The money is not their money! Often when the middle man is removed, value is created, not destroyed.

So why is it that all I hear is how critical it is to save this industry? Is that what we do now? What happened to survival of the fittest? I don't personally follow this belief, but the last time I heard it used, I heard it from the mouth of a co-worker at the very large bank I worked for.

My point in posting is this: You don't often get opportunities like the one that has presented itself in this banking crisis. This is all of your chances to see if what these people are saying is true. They say, "YOU NEED US", I say, "PROVE IT."

The dead and dying shouldn't be dictating terms to the living. I require proof of their assertions, I hope you do as well.

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 07:56 AM
Has anyone noticed how the tide has turned and suddenly the American public is being portrayed as "angry" that this bill has failed? We ARE the American public and because we did not approve the bill that they were trying to pass now we are being talked down to. "They don't understand what will be faced.", "It needs to be explained to the American public." "The education job was really bad." And our Representatives that voted the way we asked them to are being ripped to pieces this morning by the press and their fellow Congressman.

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:07 AM
Even the liberal San Francisco Chronicle is holding its nose. The question is why aren't Dodd, Obama, Kerry, Raines, Schumer, Frank, Gorlick and Reno under indictment?
The average American listening to all the news of bank failures, and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (who?) being taken over by the government, and now a “bail-out” of large, privately owned and well known companies, is at first bewildered, and then angry. The average American should be furious.
But whom should Americans be furious? That seems to be the big question as political fingers are pointing in every direction. Was it greedy CEO’s with their “golden parachutes?” Was it the Democrats? Was it the Republicans? Was it Wall Street? (Who, exactly IS “Wall Street?”) The simple answer is that it is all of the above.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, Jr., and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke were on Capital Hill taking a verbal beating from some of the very people who should not be asking the questions, but answering them and answering those questions under oath.

Senator Chris Dodd, (D-Conn.) and Congressman Barney Frank, (D-Mass.) are the first two who should be grilled, not by fellow politicians, but by an independent and hopefully very clever, angry, and mean attorney hired by the American people. No one from the present Justice Department need apply. Both should be asked how much money they have taken from lobbyists hired by the CEO’s of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Since that is public record, they should then be asked what Fannie and Freddie got in return for that money.

Barney Frank should be questioned about his House Bill, H.R. 3838, that is clearly designed to keep Fannie and Freddie afloat as long as possible despite all the signs that there was serious trouble ahead. But all his bill did was make the hole bigger in the side of the Titanic. Basically all H. R. 3838 did was: “To temporarily increase the portfolio caps applicable to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, to provide the necessary financing to curb foreclosures by facilitating the refinancing of at-risk subprime borrowers into safe, affordable loans, and for other purposes.”

Barney Frank and his counterpart in the Senate, Chuck Schumer, (D-N.Y.) did everything they could to delay and cover-up the outright fraud and book-cooking that was going on within Freddie and Fannie.

As far back as 2003, Freddie and Fannie were $9 billion dollars in debt because of bad loans that continued to be accepted on a daily basis. Pressure from liberals in Congress to continue giving out bad loans was relentless and for years it continued with CEO’s, who happen to be friends of Dodd, Frank, Schumer, and Clinton, leaving with millions in their bank accounts as the companies they ran went under.

The truth is that this financial disaster for the American taxpayer didn’t begin under George Bush, or Bill Clinton, or George Herbert Walker Bush, or Ronald Reagan. It started under Jimmy Carter . It started with the passing of The Community Reinvestment Act in 1977. Basically, this act pushed local community banks and lenders, to “bend” the rules a little and give loans to low-income families. Like many liberal schemes, it seemed like a good idea at the time. There was a provision that protected the nervous lender in the clause that stated that loans should be given “in a safe and sound manner.” This gave the bank some leeway and choice in the loans that were given out.

Under Bill Clinton, The Community Reinvestment Act was revised. Basically, the revision started to put pressure on lenders to take more financial risks. It was felt that lenders were not being “fair” to minorities and the poor who only wanted to share in the American dream of owning their own home. Janet Reno began to outwardly threaten banks and mortgage lenders with prosecution if home loans were not approved for those who wanted to purchase homes that, in truth, they could not afford.

Fearing federal retribution, loans started being approved for people who had no down-payment, no jobs, no collateral, and absolutely no hope of ever being able to meet any mortgage payment after the grace period of low interest ran out.

Then, the greed took over. Banks would “bundle” up loans, good and bad, and sell them to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, making all their money up front for loans they knew would default eventually. As these loans did default, in larger and larger numbers, even Fannie and Freddie could no longer stand up under the hemorrhage of money loss. Wall Street panicked and so did the federal government.

Were there warning signs that a disaster was looming? Of course, there were. But there was money to be made and politicians and CEO’s alike were not about to give up the gravy train of money being crammed in their pockets. The CEO’s of Freddie and Fannie would hire lobbyists to slip money into the pockets of Senator Chris Dodd, (D-Conn.), chairman of the Senate banking committee, who was supposed to be overseeing the banking industry, to the tune of $133,900 since 1989. Barack Obama was number two at the trough with over $120,000 which was no small feat since he has only been in the Senate for three years. Dodd and Obama were closely followed by the last Democratic nominee, John Kerry, (D-Mass.) and then Senator Hillary Clinton, (D-N.Y.)

What were these lobbyists buying for the millions they sprinkled around the Senate and House of Representatives? They were buying a blind eye. They were buying little or no oversight into the juggernaut that has finally crashed on the heads of the American taxpayer. CEO’s got rich, politicians got rich and they got votes, being able to tell minorities and the poor, “See what we are doing for you?” For years, the red flags were stuffed under the desk and ignored.

Early in his administration, George Bush sounded an alarm over the small amount of working capital Fannie and Freddie had on hand. He urged them to sell more shares to increase their reserve in funding and put them on more stable ground. He urged them to be more selective in the loans they bought. This suggestion was declined because the current stockholders would n ot make as much profit.

Franklin Raines, the Fannie Mae CEO from 1999 to 2004, decided to retire early, taking millions with him, under a cloud of accusations that he had cooked the books to make it appear the company was making money instead of going head-long into debt. Another player in this financial kabuki dance is Jamie Gorelick. That name should ring a bell with every American. She seems to surface right at the heart of every American disaster in the last 15 years. Ms. Gorelick was vice-chair of Fannie Mae from 1997 to 2003. Like all the others, she left with millions in her pocket while declaring that Fannie Mae “is among the handful of top-quality institutions."

The next year it was found that Fannie was $9 billion dollars in the red. Oddly, this $9 billion had been overlooked in the books Ms. Gorelick and Mr. Raines kept.

Let’s put Mr. Raines and Ms. Gorelick on the stand. The American people deserve to hear how much they gave lobbyists to pass on to their friends in Congress to keep the blinders on. That number is a staggering $16.2 million dollars since 1997. That amount bought very large blinders. And, it bought time. It bought time for the likes of Raines and Gorelick to make their millions and bow out before the bottom fell out.

Republican nominee John McCain raised the alarm two years ago but his plan for more oversight was killed in the Democrat-controlled committee. Over 20-year span, McCain took $20,000 but this did not stop him from voicing his concerns. The problem was that Democrats didn’t want to hear about it.

President Bush’s warnings were also ignored. Should Bush have done more? Yes. Unfortunately, Bush was distracted by the 9/11 attack and wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. So now, nearly every hour Americans watch as a pompous Chris Dodd or Barney Frank struts to a microphone to declare the “failed economic policies of the Bush administration are responsible for this mess.”

No, Senator, he is not. YOU and your greedy friends are responsible. It took three decades to reach the point of no return and some were there with their hands out nearly all of those years.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation is launching a full investigation into all of this. This investigation will abruptly end should Barack Obama win in November. The last thing Democrats want is the American people learning how complicit so many of them are in the illegal practice at Fannie and Freddie that led to the taxpayers bearing the brunt of the their unbridled greed.

While politicians want oversight over the “bail-out,” there has been little outcry for an investigation into how all this evolved.

It’s time for Americans to go to their windows and throw them open and yell, “We are mad as hell and we aren’t going to take it anymore!”

Then, in November, vote the lot of them out of office.

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:09 AM
Think this is just an American problem?

Looks like a lot of the worlds markets are tanking. Asia'n markets have fallen drastically today and now Russia has stopped trading:

Regulators Halt Trading on Russian Stock Exchanges

MOSCOW — Regulators quickly halted trading on Russia's two major stock exchanges Tuesday after share prices dropped sharply in response to the economic bailout turmoil in the United States.

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:23 AM
And another thing. This may be just me and my twisted way of perceiving reality, but it seems to me that the failure of this industry is coinciding with the gradually fading away of the terrorist threat.

Are these bankers Al Qaeda? Isn't that what banks have been known to do in the past; finance both sides of wars?

I consider it a very real possibility that these bankers are the terrorists. I don't have any proof, but I think the only way to tell is to let them die and then wait and watch armed conflict die with them. If you save these bankers now, then you might as well take your kids to the recruiters office and get the paper work out of the way.

As each day passes it becomes clearer and clearer that the only correct response, the only acceptable response, is to let this industry be destroyed. Not by what we did, but as a result of the choices they freely made. We are in the middle of a war and this is what they do? You must be kidding me. That is Treason! For treason the penalty is death.

This is not just America, but global. The world is waiting to see what we do over here first before they decide. Be a leader and let this industry blow up, this is ridiculous.

[edit on 30-9-2008 by bruxfain]

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:28 AM

Nice video here. I love how we have video record of dealings in Congress.

Barney Frank sounds like the Bill Murray character from "Caddyshack", but I bet the Murray character is smarter.

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:31 AM
A lot of people have written that Washington has finally listened to what the people had to say. At first, I was under the same impression until I started reading more about the vote. Seems from what I have read Washington cared more about their chances of reelection rather than what the people thought. Most of the ones who voted NO did so because they are facing election and would have a hard time getting reelected with this hanging over their head. I am willing to bet that the Senate will pass their version and then the House will pass theirs with the explanation being that they had no choice. Then you will see both parties hit the media for interviews that they were looking after Main Street. Their stories will be filled with sad situations of how main street would have been hurting worse if they had not passed legislation. Maybe we would have. But that is a lame excuse to socialize government and bail out companies because of their irresponsible mismanagement. Once again government is going to show us that are voice no longer matter. The Republicans have been stubborn about this plan and most of the reason is that it is a form of socialism. But in the end they have to vote for it or risk getting blamed if the economy sinks to epic proportion. From what I can tell about the Democrats, they were already aware that Paulson was looking to extend his power according to the sources I posted on page 20 of this thread. I still believe that all of government was aware of this crisis way ahead of time and chose to take no action sooner that would have been less drastic and costly.

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:36 AM

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Has anyone noticed how the tide has turned and suddenly the American public is being portrayed as "angry" that this bill has failed? We ARE the American public and because we did not approve the bill that they were trying to pass now we are being talked down to. "They don't understand what will be faced.", "It needs to be explained to the American public." "The education job was really bad." And our Representatives that voted the way we asked them to are being ripped to pieces this morning by the press and their fellow Congressman.

I certainly have noticed this. Now its time for the American people to communicate that we are quite aware of what we are doing and it is they who are mistaken, "about a great many things."

When they ask, "Americans" they ask people walking around downtown New York. Go to Hillsborough, Illinois and ask someone walking down the street and see what they say concerning this bill.

These people are naked and shameless and its time to put them down!

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:45 AM
reply to post by bruxfain

Amen to that bro. Ain't nobody over here in Champaign that gives a damn about those snakes either.

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:49 AM
Not to mention,

See how the markets rebounded this morning? Is this RIDICULOUS or what? I mean think about it, if the market CAN REBOUND AT ALL, it means that the entire market and OUR money is being held hostage by the bankers, plain and simple.

The argument? That it went back up because the investors are waiting on further news? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? Ok, fine so keep the g_damn news on the rail and let them THINK IT may happen 'anyyyyyy dayyyyyy nowwwwww' and maybe, just maybe, this entire mess will be cleaned up by those HOLDING our money hostage by way of default.

I seriously just can't help but laugh....


posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:03 AM
If the 'bailout' = Financial Stabilization Fund is enacted....

we immediately return to the rat-race where hundreds of finance entities and credit /loan makers are required to keep the money conveyor rolling along.

And here is a wake-up slap-in-the-face... When all the frozen assets are bought at the designated, unreasonably high prices (at a value the companies decide they are worth) There is absolutely No Guarantee that the banks & financial houses will open their vaults to the credit and loans which are nearly non-existant right now.

These same recapitalized banks etc. are not required to make loans or credit available at 2%-4%-6% ....
they can (and likely will) make loans available at 12% or more...
using the same money 'we' the tax-payer bailed them out with.

All-in-all the banksters can either keep the credit markets open at outrageous profits or they can sit on the cash from the bailouts of the otherwise unmarketable 'securities' - and the economy still stalls

exactly what we the public & congress were threatened with if the bailout bill was not approved.

characterize the situation as
A) saving the economic system
B) a dam-if-you-do-dam-if-you-don't 'box'

posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:10 AM
reply to post by St Udio

That's true....although what I truly see happening is that (like you said) it just continues to stall ANYWAY, because they will throw all this 'new capitalization' into the treasuries, sit on it, and not loan anyway just to shore up their positions.

Meanwhile We the People, get higher inflation, less jobs, no credit (which i think is a good thing and I havent used credit in over 20 years anyway so im not affected), and no visible ROI.

I say, just let it all stall. The bankers will have NO CHOICE but to do business with us unless they are suicidal. Lets put THEIR backs to the damn wall, and effectively say to them 'now you do what *I* want, you work for me'.


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