Massive financial bailout fails in the House

reply to post by Flash_dancer


...

Or it could have been investors with what they have left of their portfolios debating whether or not to get the hell out of banks, or see if the Gov bails them out..

Gov did not bail them out, and they did not want to be the next WaMu, or Wachovia which was sold for .16 a share.....

Most people who had these banks in their portfolio paid a sweet prime expense for them, some banks $70 per share..

A lot of people lost a big chunk of change..

Including Sovereign Wealth Funds..

Expect consumer confidence to plummet..

reply to post by XTexan


speaking of Forbes, he just finish saying this was a big part of the crisis also and that they should get rid of it. Appreciate the site.

Originally posted by alphabetaone
reply to post by marg6043

 

Marg,

Im sure you KNOW how I feel about this bailout. I think it SUCKED.

However, I think we should ALL hold onto our hats now, because this mess just got a lot worse. I think our markets are going to react SO negatively, that irrespective of the ABSOLUTE upside to the taxpayer not footing the bill, those actually WITH all the money are going to say "ok screw you little America, you wanted failure, we'll SHOW you failure".

I NEVER EVER get scared or panic, it's not in my nature, however if anything would have the ability to do so, it IS what we're witnessing right now.

I firmly believe that our ONLY saving grace would come in the form of a complete and total Government subsidy to us, the little people to get back on OUR feet, and SCREW the globe, SCREW the wall streeters, and let US have those funds to hedge against THEIR misappropriations. Lacking that, I think we are SERIOUSLY about to see Great Depression part II, and this time, there's a WHOLE lot more people that will be affected.


AB1

I never post but have been interested in this site for years this post is exactly how I feel this crisis should be handled. Somehow ,someway these funds need to be directed to the individuals/businesses who have paid their loans back and obviously kept this country's economy from sinking faster than it is now. These are the persons and companies that have shown the fiscal discipline to manage the 700 billion,not the CEO's AND CFO's that helped create this mess in the first place. Not going to happen but it should.

Good Luck
Everybody

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Yes and hopefully in the form of three new bills/laws to form tighter oversight
1) Federal Reserve
2) Wall Street Investment banks/bonds
3) New Federal Lending regs for Mtg.

ACOUNTABILITY to the public

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Skydancer]

reply to post by jam321


It seems like it would make sense... but I'm not one to say, Im sure there's someone on ATS that can spell it out though...

Okay let's see if I have this straight:

2 eggs=1 apple
2 apples=1 squirrel
2 squirrels=1 rabbit
2 rabbits=1 hen
10 hens, 1 rooster=1 nanny goat
3 nanny goats=1 dairy cow
3 dairy cows result in cheese, milk and butter for trade

Yep bailout failed but the old barter system still works.


With the Fed dropping $630 billion into the mix today, I finally figured out how $700B meant that the national debt would be increased by $1.3T as per the original 3 page plan by Bush...rats have a peculiar smell too.

I say let the market tank to sort out the wheat from the chaff. As panic sells shore up liquidity, stocks devalue across the board which in turn strengthens the dollar by having greater purchasing power. The stronger dollar reduces the price of oil and as fuel becomes more affordable more discressionary spending can take place.

Now if we can keep politics and the re-electability jitters out of the follow up bailout revotes we should be as fine or stronger within 6-9 months.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Ahabstar]

In response to several posters -

"it's the Republicans / Democrats fault"
People really need to get a clue, there is no two party system fighting for different ideals and there hasn't been for a long time. The same money buys both sides, they work together just fine when it comes to screwing us over. The only time they really start to even act like a two party system is around election time and even that is mostly staged. If people can't grasp this concept they may as well give up and go back to watching Idol re-runs.

Look at the advisers and contributors standing behind each candidate if you want to see these people for what they really are. McCain is surrounded by school of Chicago neo cons and Obama has Z Big and Soros. If you had to vote for the real powers, these people "behind the throne" I would guess most of us wouldn't vote for either one of these guys. Just as the democrats failed to bring about change from the last election, "change" will continue to be MIA, unless you're talking about changes to our rights, freedoms, and pocket books.


Please stop listening to bloggers and newscasters who tell you it's the poor people who took out mortgages they couldn't really afford who brought on this mess. It's simply not true. Poor, ethnic communities where housing loan programs were implemented actually have some of the highest repayment rates. The govt and the banks collaborated to extend credit to people they knew would not be able to pay it back. This was a planned failure for the purpose of building a convenient vehicle in which to hide all the bodies related to govt and finance sector fraud over the past 20 years. "BAIL-out" indeed, it's free bail for crimes they plan to get away with, period.

We've heard many alternatives, many of which would actually rebuild our economy and bring prosperity to the common people. They will not implement any of these short of a voter revolution. If you really love this country and your children / grandchildren it's time to break away from the political system, clean house from your city all the way to the DC capitol - and start voting for real people with real solutions.

They are counting on you being too stupid and too lazy to defend yourselves. They are literally bending you all over in the prison yard and most of you are only too glad to comply.

reply to post by XTexan


Hell I feel like were in a two minute drive going for the win. If this is able to give us a possible touchdown, I say go for it. The way it looks our options are dwindling. The stock market will react to what European and Asians markets are doing right now, which isn't good.

Anybody else here who deal with accounting that understand the mark to market accounting. I got an Associate in accounting but never went in that field. Those accounting laws I studied under are antique by now.

The evidence is showing that congress is listening to the people for a change......

This is amazing......


(rays of hope shine through)

reply to post by Ahabstar


you wanna barter? Hey is that the same $630 spending bill the house had passed that your talking about or is it something different?

Time to let the chips fall where they may.

It seems that the ones we want to starve are not starving however.
I get a bad feeling in my gut every time an NWO banker eats.

The banks and firms that are falling get taken out by an NWO bank.

Maybe it's time to expose the companies with the scumbags at their helm, on their boards and advisories. A permanent boycott of sorts.

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
The evidence is showing that congress is listening to the people for a change......

This is amazing......


(rays of hope shine through)

are

It's because this gonna hit everybody,the silent majority, where it hurts, and their collective senatorial and congressional butts are on the line.

reply to post by pavil


You bring forth some interesting points, and I would be honored to reply in detail!

A great article can be found at the site listed below:

money.aol.com...

“In a statement Thursday, the Fed said it had authorized the expansion of swap lines, or reciprocal currency arrangements, with the other central banks, including amounts up to $110 billion by the European Central Bank and up to $27 million by the Swiss National Bank.

The Fed also said new swap facilities had been authorized with the Bank of Japan for as much as $60 billion; $40 billion for the Bank of England and $10 billion for the Bank of Canada.

All told, Fed action increased lines of cash to central banks by $180 billion to $247 billion.”

Now this is just $247 billion that was released in the past several weeks. It has been $400 billion before that or as a part of that quite recently. I’d need to research that a bit more to comment on an actual total.

Lou Dobb’s gave the rating companies (e.g. “Dunn and Bradstreet” “Standard and Poors” “Moodys” et al) some major grief on tonight’s show over their cozy relationships with the banking operations they gave “AAA” ratings to that like failed.

The NY Times had some good journalism on punishing the corporations that had a big party and then served us the bill. It was however governmental deregulation that caused lending standards to be lowered. Congress is attempting to strictly blame the lenders, after allowing the party to get thrown in the first place.

The finger pointing won’t fix the economic problems “Phil Graham Style Deregulation” caused. Congress made a lot of mistakes, and responsible regulations need to be enacted as part of the solution. The solution is not to throw money around in a market so it won’t get lent at all. There must be an inherent corresponding duty for banks to lend to legitimate borrowers that are financially responsible; so that the beneficiaries of the Federal Reserve's largesse (the banks) do in fact lend to responsible Americans. (e.g. Lend to people in our Country, not in Uganda.)

As far as criminal liability for the financial bigwigs, they will make a Scapegoat or two. Punishment won’t gain the taxpayers a Dollar back unless it is accompanied by Civil Forfeiture, which is some Draconian stuff. The Federal government is terribly powerful, and can punish anyone regardless of true culpability for the crisis. They might grab some black guy from a lineup that "fit's the suit," but what about the big contributors?

It would benefit Americans to see Federal lawsuits filed to regain assets from the CEO’s that profited so handsomely. Follow the money and grab some back in Federal Turnover actions.

Turnover actions can certainly be brought where a company is put in voluntary or involuntary bankruptcy. The Federal government, being the largest creditor of many of these companies, has the power to bring the extravagant bonuses back in under turnover actions. 1-The Federal Government puts the culprit company in Bankruptcy to Reorganize it, and 2-Compels turnover under State law of Fraudulent Conveyances (5 year reach back to seize fraudulent transfers) or under the Federal Law of Preferential Transfers (Alas, a mere one year reach back period).

Wouldn’t it be ironic to see the same companies that lobbied for Bankruptcy Reform becoming the “Test Cases” under the new reforms!

It just seems so tantalizingly right, yet twisted in a beautiful sort of way!

reply to post by Rockpuck

Well, markets are driven by confidence. When the President of the US says "This sucker could go down'' it tends to force stocks down.

Perhaps if The President had checked with his own Party first, all of this could have been avoided altogether. Since he didn't (and his own Party wisely refused to perpetuate his fear tactics with our money) the Stock market did what the President told it to! Don't that beat all?

Pelosi: “It is a crisis that never had to happen. It is now the duty of every Member of this body to recognize that the failure to act responsibly blah blah blah..."

If Pelosi had acted responsibly Bush would have been impeached by now. But I digress.

Max Keiser compares the collapse of the US banking system to the controlled demolition of WTC 7.



[edit on 29-9-2008 by EvilAxis]

reply to post by jam321


No that is $630B that the Fed dumped into the market today to finacial institutions. Ron Paul mentioned it as part of the problem. See, I think the original plan between Bernake, Paulson and Bush was that since the amount of bad paper in the market is upwards of $13T-$31T (no one really knows exactly since most of it is hidden in Bistro type deals and other little bundled packages as well as open faced CDS [Credit Default Swaps]) That the Fed would slip in $630B with the $700B Bailout package and that Paulson with impunity would secretly cover that $630B.

When you look at how vast the amount of old bad bits of paper bought and sold go then you have to wonder how $700B would do anything. It would be like offering the guy coming to collect $10K for a loan shark $10 as a show of good faith. He will thank you, still break your leg and tell you that he will be back tomorrow for Big Tony's other $9990. But by dropping $1.3T and just calling it $700B it would be easy ask for more since this $700B had such a wonderful effect.

Now notice that MSM isn't talking about that $630B the Fed slipped in today? Had the Bailout passed, that would have been the story of the day. Since it did not, the failure to pass is the story. Either way that base was covered.

And before you ask, I noticed because I studied both magic performers and con artists as a youth. I watch very, very closely when the right hand is giving a misdirection as to what the left hand is doing.

Let it fall. Collapse will open the eyes of most.

From the most 'uneducated' to the 'self-righteous bigots' on the internet. Everything is taken for granted, and I think this could get us on a less materialistic approach.

A fallen empire would teach one hell of a lesson on this grand stage called Earth.

I just took my time to write my Congressman who vote in favor in this piece of crap and he is up for reelection.

Firs time in my life that I do such a thing, but after sending the email it felt great.!!

FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM ACT OF 2005
The United States Senate
May 25, 2006
Sen. John McCain [R-AZ]: Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.
The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.
The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.
For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.
I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.
I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.

Alas, thanks to the Democrat Party and the special interests of the left, both of these attempts to reform the banking system were still born.

But isn’t it funny how our watchdog media missed this story?

reply to post by Ahabstar


I agree. That is weird how that is the same amount as the spending bill. Talk about de ja vu. Here some quotes you might find interesting from Paulson on the economy.

July 12th, 2007 "This is far and away the strongest global economy I've seen in my business lifetime."
CNN

uly 20th, 2008 "I think it's going to be months that we're working our way through this period, clearly months. Of course the list [of difficulties] is going to grow longer given the stresses we have in the marketplace, given the housing correction - but again, it's a safe banking system, a sound banking system. Our regulators are on top of it. This is a very manageable situation."
CBS

September 19th, 2008 "We're talking hundreds of billions of dollars - this needs to be big enough to make a real difference and get at the heart of the problem," he said. "This is the way we stabilize the system."


CNN

source


Many more of his quotes in between. Talk about a liar.Good time line of quotes.