manifest destiny, human nature, the ten commandments, armageddon, my white american hands are bloody............crap.....I think I'm becoming a nihilist.

stark racism,shame on you!

It took a rocket scientist to figure out the Chinese are abusing Africa for its resources. Interesting....

The chinese are not a bad people. They are doing the same thing Europeans had been doing not to long ago?

More powerful nations abuse and pillage poorer ones, that is a fact, and is human nature.

The Chinese are present day European colonists, nothing more.

Even though the Chinese cant get my Dell laptop charger working, even after 8 tries, thats a different matter.

Look folks whatever the moral debate may be about China's involvement in Africa, in the end the debate is moot.

The West has no right to dictate how China should conduct its business. The morals of the West are not a universal standard by which other groups must conduct themselves.

Additionally, it is not the West's job to stand up for Africa. Let them do it themselves. This may seem uncaring in the short term, but in the long term it will ensure that Africa gets its just deserts (without us being vilified for exploitation or colonialism).

Let China conduct its business. Hell, let them invade outright if they want. This is neither our battle nor our obligation.

we are talking about africa,if you got other chinese domestic issues to talk about,why not open another thread.china dont force african countries against their own will,it is totally their own choice,not like western colonists,using brutal force to barge into that land.

because china's friendly approach,the country is univerally regarded as positve influence and benificial for africa by african governments and people.that is the obvious truth .those who lost their monoply and strangling hand over africa may feel frustrated and piss,huh,let them depressed,africa now has alternative choices and cant be bullied around.

Originally posted by bubbapug1985
It took a rocket scientist to figure out the Chinese are abusing Africa for its resources. Interesting....

The chinese are not a bad people. They are doing the same thing Europeans had been doing not to long ago?

More powerful nations abuse and pillage poorer ones, that is a fact, and is human nature.

The Chinese are present day European colonists, nothing more.

Even though the Chinese cant get my Dell laptop charger working, even after 8 tries, thats a different matter.

Soon the entire africa will learn Chinese. Colonisation is not necessarily a bad thing. The British colonised Hong Kong and how investors flock there as they have a sizable English speaking population unlike the mainland.

If it is the US or British colonising Africa, will you be complaining? I dont think so. Every man for his own.

In the past, Hong Kong was ceded to the British because China lost some kind of opium war.

Let's face it. The weak always gets bullied.

That is life.

Originally posted by Valorian
China is doing what any capatalistic new empire would do, get as much as you can whilst no-one is looking and then answer the critics.

But i do agree with that staement that Africa is becoming very Chinese...
But then can you blame a raped continent where nothing that has been promised is ever delivered by the Wetern powers?

If China delivers then one can only blame the western powers that have ignored the needs of the many.

I am from South Africa and they are seeing the benfits of Chinese intervention already.
China is very much after African resources be it mineral or person :-)

Valorian

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Valorian]

Yup China has its head screwed on. The US and UK along with other countries are broke so couldn't try a 'Takeout' even if it tried.
The thing is though. China needs raw materials cause it has such a top-heavy export market. The US and Europe would be stuck with materials it didn't need

Raped continent?
That's debatable. Considering that the European colonists pretty much traded their way into Africa.
Having spoken and worked with S.Africans they can attest that since S Africa has been given independence things are a lot tougher and there is tons of more crime.

the choice is always in african's hand.they will be very glad to have alternatives

When I refer to "Africa" in this thread I will be referring only those most poverty and disease stricken countries on that continent. Countries ranging from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, to Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Somalia, and the Sudan.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Central Africa was doomed from the very beginning. It just wasn't a continent that civilization was made to spring out of. Its geopolitical history is long and brutal. The very geography of the continent is wild. Those that remained were destined, it seems, to toil through the hardships that is that that vast, unforgiving continent.

While Africa is now simply a playground for the powers that be, it truly was a testing ground for the emergence of the first civilized peoples. Naturally, they left the place.

I'm not saying there is something inherently wrong with Africa or its people. On the contrary, in our modern world, with sufficient capital and human resources, Africa can be transformed, and for the first time in history it is truly feasible.

But then again, what leader of a highly unstable country, in terms of its both socioeconomic and political status, would subvert the only form of income they receive in the name of principal alone? The fact is that all of Africa's income, very little of which makes its way to the people that fuel those industries, comes from multinational corporations, whose few African workers are virtually slaves.

The political leaders of Africa really have to form an affront against this cyclical corruption. But it all comes down to the people, and this new generation.

1. At the very least, African leaders must continue dialogue through the AU, and attempt at reforging all long broken political relationships.
   
2. African people must take the initiative in forming their own non-governmental organizations to fight for the most pressing issues affecting their nations.
   
3. African people must rid themselves of their subsistence on foreign aid; they must refuse to work for foreign corporations.
   
4. Africans must assault their current political leaders through the profession of Democratic ideas and beliefs; they must work in either transforming current legislature and diplomatic agreements and relationships, or if unsuccessful ultimately forming new Republics, or drafting new Constitutions.
   

We need to see a new wave of originally African political leaders, and in their efforts they must depose of old regimes and establish new governance. Economically, during this transition period, it would be tough. The continent would have to pool all its intellectual resources in the formation of their own, uniquely African industries. They can no longer depend on income from multinational corporations, and they must stop all foreign aid.

The major tragedy is that Africa is so entrenched in foreign exploitation, and so abused by international socioeconomic regulations, the CAP (Common Agricultural Policy), for example, that they are especially incapable of starting afresh, even if they unanimously and immediately rejected all foreign influence, and by extension those nations' leverage over Africa's people. They are unable to compete in the basic industry that all nations must start out on, and that is agriculture. Any agriculture that is done on that continent will have to be done for subsistence alone, as their product can not possibly compete with those of Europe's highly socialized, mechanized and subsidized industries. At the moment the purchase of their products is dependent on largely fair trade agreements, and the good will of like-minded individuals from across the world.

The only form of economy that would truly benefit those countries, it seems, in the current state of global affairs, is a state run, centralized economic model, based on 5 year agricultural and industrial plans. The governments would have to take out international loans to provide income to those industries, directly planned by the state, which would otherwise make no financial sense, as they are not profiting from it on the international market. Access to food and water would provide a stable basis for which Africa can emerge from the depredation at the hands of foreign powers. The second wave of five year plans would focus on the extraction of natural resources, and the development of rather arbitrary economic industries; the only purpose of these industries being economic stimulation. Finally, the plans are culminated by a new independence from foreign corporations and the ability of African firms to capitalize on whatever they so choose. Naturally, the continent would then flow into a more mainstream free market capitalism, with of course all the social regulations necessary to keep that system in check. Of course, this African transformation would be consummated by the birth of a fierce African nationalism, which would bring about the end of all foreign influence on that continent for the rest of time.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by cognoscente]

[edit on 2-10-2008 by cognoscente]

Originally posted by cognoscente
Africans must assault their current political leaders through the profession of Democratic ideas and beliefs; they must work in either transforming current legislature and diplomatic agreements and relationships, or if unsuccessful ultimately forming new Republics, or drafting new Constitutions.

Seriously, by the tone of your post you sound very sincere and logical. I have to ask where are you from? To me it sounds like advice from aliens that exist in a distant galaxy.

Are you at all familiar with sub-saharan Africa? What goes on in Africa? African’s living in other countries for centuries? You are preaching logic. Do you have any idea how out of place that is?

[edit on 2-10-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by cognoscente
Africans must assault their current political leaders through the profession of Democratic ideas and beliefs; they must work in either transforming current legislature and diplomatic agreements and relationships, or if unsuccessful ultimately forming new Republics, or drafting new Constitutions.

Seriously, by the tone of your post you sound very sincere and logical. I have to ask where are you from? To me it sounds like advice from aliens that exist in a distant galaxy.

Are you at all familiar with sub-saharan Africa? What goes on in Africa? African’s living in other countries for centuries? You are preaching logic. Do you have any idea how out of place that is?

[edit on 2-10-2008 by Sonya610]

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're trying to say. Is it that I am being too pragmatic? Of course, all these things I mentioned seem so much easier to accomplish in words than is probably true. I did define my "Africa" at the beginning of the post, by the way. I'm aware that sub-Saharan Africa is a region largely driven by nomadism and the Caravan trade, that it is a highly diverse region geographically speaking; it is home to many ethnicities, and represents a wholly different life then the picture I painted in my latest post.

There was also a reason for my confidence in my logic. My post was meant to convey an inspirational overtone, one that Africans themselves would value.

Now, to address your own response to my post, I offer you a question.

Do you honestly believe that Mugabe's legitimacy as President in Zimbabwe should not ever be questioned? In fact, I think his rule should be deposed without question. He is driving the country into the ground. He venerates foreign investment, and by extension the multinational corporations, which exploit the local population and extract the country's resources without any obligation to the compensation of the citizens of that country, whose resources are in fact their common right by heritage alone. Very few locals are employed by those companies, and those that do are virtually slaves. How does Mugabe expect capitalism to work in his own country when he is constantly bombarding his own citizens with unfair competition from foreign industries. This guy is bat # crazy and will not leave office until he dies. He has only his own interests in mind. Any form of political congruity in the past months have only been a ploy to further his own position of power. He will act diplomatic and sign various accords, and then blatantly disregard their ever existing. Tell me that an African should tolerate living under a Despot such as himself for the rest of their undoubtedly miserable lives.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by cognoscente]

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
I hate to say it, but I really do question whether Africa is capable of self-governance.

I really don't think most of those countries are capable of it either. Not in the sense of maintaining large cities, feeding larger populations, sustaining an infrastructure of clean water, basic medical care, etc...

I do not think they will ever be capable of it. But they won't have to take responsibility because they can always blame it on their previous oppressors, or their future oppressors.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by Sonya610]