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Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (FULL TEXT)

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posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 08:33 PM
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I honestly believe the purpose of the legalese and lengthy dissertation of what should be a relatively simple thing is to make sure no citizenry will review the document... but I did manage to wade through the first several pages thus far. My thanks to ATS for providing the full text of the bill.


And thus far I do not like what I am reading. This bill invests far too much power in the Secretary. As usual, it is simply a long-winded way of saying "Do what you think is right, but let us know about it". The US Congress is charged with passing legislation, that is, laws which are to be followed exactly under the supervision of the Executive Branch. This bill does no such thing. It abrogates the authority of Congress to specify monetary policy and vests that power in the hands of an unelected Cabinet-level Secretary of the Executive Branch. It also allows that Secretary to further delegate responsibility to lower-level employees (translation: bureaucrats) who have absolutely no tie to the citizenry.

It is also far too inclusive, encompassing specifically every type of financial institution I can think of and then allowing for future expansion of that domain on a whim. In short, it is an attempt to create another 'Wall Street' within the Treasury Department itself. We are already having a major economic meltdown because of the one already in existence; now we need another? This is like saying that since eating a pound of rat poison makes one ill, the proper cure is to eat two pounds of rat poison. As Spock from the old 'Star Trek' TV series would say, "That is highly illogical".

As for Congressional oversight, it appears to be lacking in substance. Far too much faith is placed in a Secretary, and we have already seen the catastrophic results of this type of misplaced faith in the Cross-Border Trucking Program. Mary Peters (head of the USDOT) has used the powers granted to her in a far, far more specific program to thwart national security, public safety, and to basically thumb her nose at both the US Congress and the American people. In the declaration of hostilities toward 'terrorists', the President himself decided to use loose wording to extend the range of the intent of the declaration to include an all-out assault on Iraq arbitrarily. We all know how well that turned out.

I have not yet even mentioned the fact that we cannot afford this bailout! No entity, be it an individual, a corporation/business, or a country, can continue to spend more than it takes in, and every dime that is taken from the people is one less dime that can go toward the public economy. Never can a government out-perform private companies in a capitalist system, because no one is at risk in the government. Should the program in question fail, the taxpayers, not the ones who administer, will bear the brunt of the failure. To believe that a person will be as thrifty and efficient with others' finances as they are with their own is pure folly.

The proper thing to do would be to allow the banks to fail, and prosecute those at fault through illegal means (such as fraud). Assets of those individuals could be legally seized to offset the problems caused by such actions. Realizing this would no doubt be insufficient, I could perhaps get behind a bailout of those common people who lost due to such actions, but I cannot condone this non-specific power grab with no real oversight from publicly-elected representatives. Of course, if the end result is a retreat from our present capitalistic system (which is responsible for over 200 years of industrial growth and prosperity) toward a socialistic system, then this all makes sense.

In short, as I mentioned on another thread about this matter, we may have won the battle today with the defeat of HR2775, but the war is far from over. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and I for one plan on maintaining that vigil.

TheRedneck




posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 08:36 PM
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I just want to add that it is not only subprime mortgage holders who are having a negative effect on the current financial situation. There are borrowers with good credit who are not in default on their mortgages that are walking out on their mortgages because the value of their homes is less than the original loan taken out on the homes. These people have what are called upside down mortgages. Some consider walking out on mortgages unethical, others have a more complicated opinion.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 

We're thrilled to have you, in our fight for eternal vigilance. Your words ring true . We have shown what a difference standing up for your beliefs has made in this fight. As Redneck said, this fight has just begun, but we will continue the fight, because we must, not For TheRedneck or the Prof, but for our children, and our grandchildren, and beyond.

On the cable news shows tonight, they interviewed several of the Congressmen and Congesswomen that had voted "NO". They said, WITHOUT A DOUBT, that the bill went down to defeat because for the last 48 hours, Representatives were SWAMPED will calls from people like us, that were 100 to 1 against the bill.

We DID make a difference. We CAN continue to make a difference.
Let's not let Jefferson's words become outdated. They created this great nation for us. Let's preserve it as a country free from tyranny, tyranny of the bankers, crooks and politicians that tried today to steal it from us.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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I'm pleased that bill didn't pass because of a few large loop holes like
all the money coming back in from this TARP goes straight into the general
national budget. Yes, no accountability and no way to back track it.

That knocked me out of my chair ... why not dump it into my general operating fund. I'd love a newer home too!

Will someone send Congress a 101 book on general accounting practices.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Skydancer]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus

We DID make a difference. We CAN continue to make a difference.

Yes, we did, and yes, we can.

As we battle, it is wise to understand our enemy. We fight not against people, but against attitudes. I list a few of these below:

  • "I always vote _______". Politics is not a football game. In football, one generally picks a favorite team over location, alumni status, the colors of the jerseys, or even because one likes the name. Should they win, they receive 'bragging rights'. Should they lose, they are tormented for a few days by the fans of the opposing team.

    But in politics, if one 'loses' (picks a champion who does differently than they would desire), one receives much more than a few days of friendly ribbing. Instead, the stakes are loss of ability to provide a living for one's family, the loss of rights to do as one pleases, the loss even of freedom as one's own actions may be deemed illegal. On the other hand, if one chooses a winner (meaning someone who acts appropriately and in one's interests), the rewards are far greater than the ability to brag. One may well gain financial prosperity, a higher standard of living, and continued freedom to do as one chooses.

  • "I don't have time to keep up with politics". Oh, really? If one has not the time to stay informed on issues, then one abrogates their input into the political process, and allows their fate to be determined by those one was too busy to investigate. It is entirely possible that those who don't have enough time today, will have too much time tomorrow while sitting in an unemployment line.

    With all the time already spent on trivial pursuits, such as sports and mindless entertainment, I doubt anyone really doesn't have time to stay current on at least the major issues of the day. Perhaps they don't have the desire...

  • "How does that help me?" No man is an island; we all are interconnected in this world. Should one industry suffer, the total economy will suffer to some extent, and that will trickle down to the fellow sweeping the floor in the local factory. As a wise man once said, "Crap rolls downhill."

    The same philosophy works in the realm of self-interest (as in social programs). If one votes entirely for selfish reasons, without taking into account the future ramifications of their cations, one will inevitably vote for future catastrophe. Short-term gains are nice, especially for the people who are obsessed with immediate gratification (like the majority of society), but they pale in comparison to long-term paybacks.

  • "My vote doesn't matter." This is the one I hate the most, because it is indicative of one already defeated and hopeless. The person who believes this must be shown that their vote and their opinion does indeed matter.


Yes, call your congressman. Yes, write letters, start or sign petitions. Make your voice heard through forums and editorials and any other public avenue you can think of. But don't forget to fight the above enemies as well. One voice alone among millions can do little, true. But one voice can also call to others, who can call to still others, until it reaches a crescendo that no politician, no financial tycoon, no elitist can ignore.

One voice can indeed make a difference. Your voice can indeed be heard.

But only if you speak it enough.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 05:05 AM
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At the risk of oversimplifying, I want to appear helpful though, but uncomplicating and unmuddying this current situation. Many think they can't understand why we would not pass a bill, or that these matters maybe over the heads of the average citizen, they maybe not and I think people understand the ramifications of the vote against, but I fear those that voted for the bailout maybe confused and I'm trying to help you understand at a gut level what you see happening today, ok? Markets go up and go down, the second law of thermodynamics still holds, sometimes we have to feel these effects in order for the world to become a better and stronger place. We get what we deserve and what we need, and I don't fear this since I've been waiting for this moment for most of my life when we can finally promise the liberty that some of us learned about in school as kids and appear for the kind of world we want our children to inherit. I am not afraid, as Nietsche would say, I stare into the abyss and do not tremble with fear....afterall money doesn't really exist anyway, there maybe some things in life that money can't buy. Those scared maybe looking at their bank accounts and homes in the cayman islands and telling themselves those things appear all that exists, well gravity has a way of correcting that assumption.

Maybe an analogy can go like this, we maybe in a plane flying and maybe about to run out of gas. The solution being propsed by two pilots amounts to siphoning gas out of the tank to put more gas into the tank. I'm trying to explain how we appear to have a overgeneralizing about the vote against the bailout, it was a smart vote and attempt to land the plane so we can live to see another day. While the bailout just wants to keep us up in the clouds rather than face reality. We can either land the plane now and face the uncertainty of being able to get to ground before we run out of fuel or we can fly on and pretend gravity will not affect us because we are unique in all of history.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 05:20 AM
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keep you copies of this bill, I bet it's gonna come back in a newer better form...
this was the public's viewing of it. they left for a couple of days, but I bet they take the issue back up when they get back, with a more urgent attempt...then it will pass...and well, when you compare the two bills, there will be vaste differences in them....
I'm beginning to wonder if maybe those that like to play with the numbers and dates might not be on to something here....9/11, 777, ect.
could they be just sending a single out to their elite buddies? don't take this too seriously?
don't know, but well since the markets closed yesterday, the dow has gone up...it's only a couple hundred points off what it was before the "rumor" hit last week and everyone started laying their bets that it would go through. we are sliding down, but well, it's not as big as the 700point drop would seem to indicate.
someone's gonna make a killing, they are at the fire sale picking up the bargains, because they know....
congress will come back and pass a bill that was even worse than this one was!
betcha!



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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He must've said "Yeeha!"



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 07:01 PM
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OK I keep hearing that the Senate is going to vote on the bailout bill TOMORROW!!! As in 10/1/08.

CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THIS???

I heard it on Lou Dobbs today.

We need to find out if this is true and call the Senate Switchboard TOMORROW to voice our opinions.

Senate Switchboard: (202) 224- 3121

Flood their switchboard with calls and let them know!!!



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I have to agree with you, I have been looking over this bill and it really is a travesty. The constitutional power that is being handed over via this bill is staggering.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 07:32 PM
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I found a confirmation, looks like their voting tomorrow night with 2 additions.




Senate to vote on bailout tomorrow — with an added tax cut

Just in: The Senate will vote on the bailout plan tomorrow night — with one big addition to the $700 billion plan the House rejected yesterday.

Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and GOP Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said they will include a tax-cut package already rejected by the House on Monday. The plan would also boost federal deposit insurance limits to $250,000 from $100,000.


Source


Doesn't look any better, how can we give tax cuts at the same time we give $700B away?



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:19 PM
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What seems to be going on, is similar to what medical insurance companies do to us. They use any excuse to reject your claim, and when you counter their rejection, they go to plan B, another excuse. Eventually, many people just give up. I think Congress is hoping that we'll tire of fighting them, and they can get their way.
Make no mistake about it, this "bailout" bill is a transfer of funds from the taxpayers to the crooks. They've all got their hands in the cookie jar, and if we let them, there won't be any cookies left for us, our children and our grandchildren.
I've called my Congressman again, and told him I expect him to hold firm. We all have to do the same.
The FDIC limit increase is probably not a bad idea, but the last thing this nation can afford is a tax cut right now, not with a 11.3 trillion dollar deficit facing us.
Legally, the House CANNOT reintroduce the same bill, according to the House parliamentarian, so changes HAD to be made. These changes DO NOT significantly alter the BIll. It is a still a BAILOUT, and we need to stop it.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:35 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 

Great Post Redneck. Those are words of wisdom that we all should adhere to. I, for one, cherish my vote, and would never default on that honor, privilege and duty.



"My vote doesn't matter." This is the one I hate the most, because it is indicative of one already defeated and hopeless. The person who believes this must be shown that their vote and their opinion does indeed matter.

As for those that don't think that their vote counts, you only have to go back to the 2000 Presidential Election and the state of Florida, to put that myth to rest. A few hundred votes in Florida decided the fate of the nation for 8 years. Who knows what would have happened if those votes had not been cast?

Many brave Americans fought for us to get and keep the right to vote. Vote wisely, and as Redneck said, make it an educated vote. Don't just listen to the spin of the MSM, because they have an agenda that is not necessarily the best for you or the country. Before voting for a candidate:
- learn the specifics of what he/she proposes to do as President
- learn his/her record and accomplishments
- judge the character of the candidates- IT DOES MATTER
- does your candidate take a firm stand on issues?
- is your candidate able to handle crises? Have they?
- ignore things that have no bearing on whether the candidate will
fulfill his/her duties, such as looks, hairstyle, musical preference,etc.

Be an EDUCATED VOTER!



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by bubbabuddha
 

I certainly agree.
Last night, on another thread, they were debating what Bush was going to talk about this morning. It was amazing how many people really thought Bush was going to declare a national emergency, cancel elections, etc. etc.
Here was my reply:



Calm down everyone. Take a few deep breaths.

He is most probably going to:
1.) Announce what most people already know, namely that the Fed has printed up $630,000,000,000 to release to the banks to ease the cash flow. I posted this information on the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act Thread several hours ago.
2.)Ask for a bipartisan effort to come up with a bill that is acceptable to the American Public.

I think too many people have been listening to Alex Jones. I saw the sun set tonight, and I assure you that the sun will rise tomorrow, and the world will not end. What we need to all do is remain calm. The crooks tried to sell this Bill with FEAR. They are now using the MSM and their minions to convince you that their bill must be resurrected. Don't fall for the trap. The markets will eventually recover, but not before the trash is swept away. This correction needed to be done. Remember, the same crooks that caused this problem hold millions of shares of their companies. They will not let this continue. They are just having a hissy fit, like a child that did not get his/her way. The rich have temper tantrums often, much more than the common man.


This morning, I saw the sun rise, the world did not end, and the Dow recovered 65% of what it lost yesterday, and yes, I watched the sun set from my front porch tonight.

FDR said it best, at his first inauguration:
"The Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”

The Politicians and Media RELY on FEAR to get their way.

Bush successfully played on the fear of the nation, in convincing people we HAD to invade Iraq.

Bush, Pelosi,Frank, and the MSM tried to use FEAR to get their crooked Bailout bill through the House..

Today, Bush tried again to instill FEAR into the nation.

We've all seen the teasers on TV for the late night news:- "World to End at Midnight, Details on the 11:00PM News".

For those that have a few minutes, I strongly recommend you check out this link, which gives lessons to sales people on how to use fear to sell:

www.salesitch.com...

Don't BUY on FEAR, not from salespersons, politicians or the media.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 09:23 PM
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Here is a link to a more detailed description and analysis of what Wednesday and Thursday will bring. Warning. Reading this article may make you sick. They are quoted as basically saying that they are going to stick it to us:
afp.google.com...
(AFP is a world-wide journal)



WASHINGTON (AFP) — The US Senate will vote Wednesday evening on a revised 700 billion dollar Wall Street bailout, after the House of Representatives sparked economic turmoil by rejecting the original package.

A Democratic Senate aide speaking on condition of anonymity confirmed the surprise vote would go ahead and the bill is expected to be considered after sundown on Wednesday at the end of the Jewish Rosh Hashanah holiday.

The bailout bill is expected to have a much easier path through the 100-member Senate than in the House, where in a shock vote, members voted to knock it down by 228 votes to 205.

The bill as seen as a much-needed package to boost a US economy on the verge of collapse due to the bursting of the housing bubble, a credit crunch, a squeeze on banks and utter chaos on Wall Street.

In a bid to build Republican backing for the bailout in the House, the Senate bill will include votes on extending tax cuts which are set to expire and an extension of federal insurance for bank deposits to 250,000 dollars.

"Senate Democrats and Republicans believe it is essential that we work quickly on this important legislation to restore confidence to our financial system and strengthen the economy," said Senate Majority leader Harry Reid.

"It is my hope that with the improvements we have made to the administration's proposal the Senate will pass the legislation tomorrow and the House of Representatives will follow suit soon after," he said.


Democratic Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Reid told Bush in a letter that they would keep working with him to revive the bill.

"Working together, we are confident we will pass a responsible bill in the very near future," they said.

Senate Banking committee chairman Chris Dodd had also predicted the bailout would soon make it through Congress soon.

"I am quite confident that we are moving in the right direction, and that we should end up with a very positive outcome in the next 24 or 48 hours," Dodd said.

"I do know that some of those who cast votes yesterday are having second thoughts about the situation that they placed us in."


We need to act quickly. Start making those phone calls.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:30 PM
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Bailout Bill adds Three Trillion Dollars to the statutory limit on the public debt.

www.govtrack.us...


13 SEC. 122. INCREASE IN STATUTORY LIMIT ON THE PUBLIC
14 DEBT
15 Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United
16 States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limita
17 tion contained in such subsection and inserting
18 ‘‘$11,315,000,000,000’’


www.uscode.house.gov...


(b) The face amount of obligations issued under this chapter and the face amount of obligations whose principal and interest are
guaranteed by the United States Government (except guaranteed
obligations held by the Secretary of the Treasury) may not be more
than $8,184,000,000,000, outstanding at one time, subject to
changes periodically made in that amount as provided by law through
the congressional budget process described in Rule XLIX (!1) of the
Rules of the House of Representatives or otherwise.


That is a difference of $3,131,000,000,000.

The stock market lost $1.1 trillion on Monday and we are all still in business.
So why do they need our chump change? If I give all of my change to the beggars on Wall Street I will have to go on welfare myself.



posted on Oct, 1 2008 @ 08:29 AM
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Maybe we need to organize a national strike, and planned demonstrations.
It is pretty obvious from interviews of House and Senate members, that they are pretty sure that they have the votes for this travesty.
By putting in the extended tax cuts for business, the Extension of the AMT, and the raise of the authorized limit of the FDIC insured amount, they have switched enough members in the house to get this through.
The FEAR tactics that the Administration and the Congressional leaders have used, seem to have worked for Congress.
Did it work for you?
I still believe that in essence, this is still a BAILOUT of the crooks.
I have not been able to send an email to Congressional leaders this morning. I know yesterday, they claimed that their server was down.
Perhaps this is their way of ignoring us, so that they can say they received no protests of the "new bill".
Both candidates are pushing this bailout bill, so if that does not tell you that they are both in the pockets of Wall Street, then PLEASE buy my bridge in Brooklyn. I need money, since Congress has stripped my family and yours of virtually all that we have. In addition, as I've said many times, they also will have their fingers in your childrens' pocket, your grandchildrens' and the next several generations.

They are nothing but CRIMINALS.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:45 AM
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About the Act maybe this is no a good practice in ats but sorry please my other post about the act:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I try to read the full act, i really dont know but its my intuition that this is about
tax or control Renewable Energy, let say if you use solar, wind power, biofuel, etc.

This about to buy Toxic assest, not about Carbon Sequestration i think, for example?
***********************************
page 179
‘‘(34) the carbon dioxide sequestration credit
14
determined under section 45Q(a).’’.
***********************************

Sorry if i'm wrong, i'm not a lawyer, but its better ask.

Thanks



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 04:13 AM
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We keep hearing about "Toxic Paper" and I am trying to understand what this means, in the search for understanding, I found a few loose strings that when braided together, seem, in my opinion, to form one heck of a noose.

Rep Sherman talks about how this money is going to bail out foreign investors (as well as the scare tactics and threats incorporated into the efforts to pass this bill) www.youtube.com...

China and Russia are mentioned as these investors. Russia is planning grand scale military exercises and cranking up the arms race www.independent.co.uk...

Then I find this



Daily Real Estate News (from the National Association of Realtors)
January 2, 2007

Beware of Latest Mortgage Scam

In a scam known as shotgunning, thieves are applying for multiple home loans simultaneously. When they get the money — sometimes millions — they take it and leave the country.

Authorities are blaming Eastern Europeans affiliated with what is known as the Russian Mafia. "It's the fraud of the year," says Paul Doman, director of Title Insurance Co.’s Lenders Advantage Equity Division. "They can pull in excess of a million dollars out of the home, enough so they can live a good life back wherever they came from."

Source

So if I am even warm here, Russian Mafia has been scamming on mortgages. Those mortgages get securitized and sold, [back] to Russia, China, and whoever else is in the market. Then the people who pulled the scam in the first place, realize they just got stuck with their own scam.

So they want the US to buy back the "Toxic Paper" that they were responsible for creating in the first place!!!

Gotta say it, that's a pretty intricate scam, they are gonna get the money twice over!! No wonder Russia can afford to spend so much money on it's military... We're stuck with the bill!

edit to add the 10 mgts on 1 property line

[edit on 10/3/08 by redhatty]





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