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9-11 Were Some Just Lucky?

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posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 07:53 PM
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I need help researching a few 9-11 questions. If anyone on here is willing to help with links to information or insight I would greatly appreciate it. There are so many experts on 9-11 that I humbly admit that I am coming to the table with very little and very late. My goal is to learn, not to teach or preach.

On September 11, 2001, two associates of mine chose NOT to take Flight 77 which reportedly was the flight that crashed into the Pentagon. At the time, I was merely grateful that they had not been among the victims. Over the years though, I have been nagged by guilty questions. Rather than just being grateful they survive, I have felt torn by my own thoughts and doubts over these internal silent questions. These were the kind of questions that come from your gut and just won’t go away. You see, these two people were pretty high up in the Democrat Party food-chain so maybe that alone was reason enough to question. Maybe it’s not. Hopefully you can help me decide.

It seemed like such a twist of fate that they escaped what happened to Flight 77. I have fought between the guilt of simply being grateful that they were not killed to questioning my gut which told me that there was something strange in this story.

The two passengers who decided to take a later flight instead of Flight 77 are former Democrat Party Chairman Joe Andrew and former DNC official Brad Queisser. Here is a little more about them.

Joe Andrew
Wiki

Bio


Joseph J. Andrew (born March 1, 1960) was National Chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) from 1999-2001. He served with DNC General Chairman Edward G. Rendell. Asked to serve by President Bill Clinton, Andrew became, at the age of 39, one of the youngest chairpersons in the history of the DNC. He later served as Chairman of the New Democratic Network, and in 2006 helped to found The Blue Fund, a mutual fund which invests in companies that contribute to Democratic campaigns and meet standards of environmental and social responsibility.

During the 2008 Democratic Presidential nominating contest he was one of the first to endorse Senator Hillary Clinton in November of 2007. On May 1, 2008, however, he switched his endorsement from Clinton to Senator Barack Obama[1].


Brad Queisser
Bio


Brad A. Queisser joins mCapitol Management as a Vice President and Managing Director. With offices in Washington, D.C. and Chicago, the firm forges effective relationships at all levels of government and business throughout the United States and internationally.

Mr. Queisser has also held several positions within the Democratic National Committee, including Deputy Executive Director, Senior Advisor to the President of the 2000 Democratic NatiNational Convention Corporation, and with the Gore-Lieberman Recount Committee. He has also represented the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee and the start-up of the 2004 Democratic National Convention Corporation.


Continued...



[edit on 10/6/2008 by Gools]




posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 08:02 PM
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Chairman Joe Andrew’s near miss is included here along with a few others.
Where Was God on 9-11?


Joe Andrew, a Washington lawyer and former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, had a ticket for seat 6-C on the ill-fated American Airlines flight 77 from Dulles International Airport to Los Angeles, but switched to a later flight at the last minute. “I happen to be a person of faith,” says Mr. Andrew, “but even if you aren’t, anybody who holds a ticket for a flight that went down ... will become a person of faith.”


What has always bothered me though, is the roles these two individuals played in national politics and that they would probably have been two to be warned off if such things did happen as some stories have suggested.

ATS Thread
Who Warned Mayor Brown Not To Fly...


Mayor Willie Brown who was headed to New York got a warning to be careful about flying eight hours before 911 happened. His security people took the call, but as of yet no one has released any further info on that.


There are other confirmed near-misses.

ATS Thread
Family Guy Creator Misses Flight


For those of you who don't know Seth McFarlane is a producer/creator/voice-guy for the fabulous show Family Guy and American Dad.

He was booked on Flight 11 on September 11, and was given the wrong time by his travel agent. So he showed up too late.. I was wondering, if there was some kind of 'people-switch' or even plane-switch, how many people were given the wrong time? told the flight was overbooked?


In the past year, I started to look a little deeper and have found relatively little on the passengers who were lucky on 9-11. I have found the manifests both with and without the supposed hijackers names but mostly only numbers of people who were booked but for whatever reason did not fly. My questions began with who else had reservations and did not use them.

For Instance...

Flight 11


7:59 – 8:02 AM American Flight 11, a Boeing 767 with a capacity of 181 passengers , loaded with 23,980 gallons of fuel, departed from Boston's Logan Airport, 14 minutes after its scheduled departure. [See - Los Angeles Times 9/20/01; ABC News 7/18/02; CNN 9/17/01; Washington Post 9/12/01; Guardian 10/17/01; AP 8/19/02; Newsday 9/10/02; 9-11 Commission Report 6/17/04]

The original take-off was scheduled for 7:45. There were supposed to be 92 passengers and crew on board American Airlines Flight 11; but according to the official manifest, published on CNN.com, there were only 86. See - 911Timeline.net...


Flight 93


8:01 AM In Newark, United Airlines Flight 93, a Boeing 757 with a capacity of 200 passengers, loaded with 11,489 gallons of fuel, pushed-back from the gate, with 44 people aboard bound for San Francisco, California. Flight 93 would be delayed by 41 minutes prior to taking off. Flight 93 reportedly had to wait in a line of approximately a dozen aircraft before it can take off. [See - USA Today 8/12/02] There were supposed to be 44 passengers and crew aboard, yet according to the official manifest, published on CNN.com, there are only 33.


Flight 175


8:14 AM United Airlines Flight 175 a Boeing 767 with a capacity of 181 passengers and, reportedly, with 23,980 gallons of fuel, departed from Boston's Logan Airport, 16 minutes after the scheduled departure time. [See - CNN 9/17/01; Washington Post 9/12/01; Guardian 10/17/01; AP 8/19/02; Newsday 9/10/02] It was headed for Los Angeles, California. The take-off was originally scheduled for 7:58 AM. There are supposed to be 65 passengers on board; according to the official death manifest, published on CNN.com, there were only 56 aboard.


continued



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 08:09 PM
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Flight 77


8:20 AM Flight 77 departed the Dulles International Airport, ten minutes later than the scheduled departure time. [See - CNN 9/17/01; Washington Post 9/12/01; Guardian 10/17/01; 9-11 Commission Report 6/17/04; AP 8/19/02]

American Flight 77 was a Boeing 757 with a capacity of 200 passengers and reportedly 11,489 gallons of fuel. It departed Dulles International Airport, located 30 miles west of Washington D.C., bound for Los Angeles, California. The take-off was originally scheduled for 8:01. There were supposed to be 64 passengers and crew on board, according to the official death manifest list, published on CNN.com, there were only 56.


It is even difficult to find accurate numbers on passengers who were on the plane as the following site has different figures. I will also share HERE an analysis of the emptiness of the planes because I have tried to research both sides of the question…


“The percentage of seats occupied on the aircraft -- also known as the "load factor" -- on September 11, 2001, was 51%, compared to an average load factor for Flight 11 of almost 39% on Tuesdays over the three months preceding 9/11. Thus, the load factor on this flight was slightly above the norm".
Staff Report 3 from the 9/11 Commission



So then you think, ok, maybe that is normal…until you see something like this…

Something Strange About Flight 93


23 (and counting) of the 44 people on Flight 93 were not supposed to be on the flight that day. Is this really just a coincidence?

Many people have asked questions about the small number of passengers on each of the hijacked planes on Sept 11th, each flight was on average a quarter full. Flight 93 in particular had a very small load on board, only forty four people in total, including four suspected hijackers. Thirty seven passengers (excluding crew) on a plane that holds around two hundred people would make you wonder how an airline could possibly make a profit on such a flight. The mainstream press have speculated that this was careful planning by the hijackers, booking into flights that were already under booked so as to reduce the likelihood of confrontation with other passengers.

Someone pointed out to me the large number of people who were only on the flights 'by chance'. There are numerous stories about people who originally planned to take another flight but decided to take the opportunity to get home early and so on. I originally dismissed this as being coincidence since there didn't appear to be enough of them to be significant.

However, on further examination of the stories of the flight 93 passengers I found something quite startling. The following table details all the passengers and crew that were on this flight by chance - mostly moving from other flights.



Not to go on and on which I could do with the amount of questionable data out there - I will try and summarize.

I have asked if Joe Andrew and Brad Queisser could have been warned. I have suggested that at least one flight that seemed at a normal capacity that day would have been woefully under booked if other flight passengers had not been transferred onto Flight 93 at the last minute. So I will lay out a really guilty question. Were these two possibly holding spaces in reservations to keep the seats from filling up as others may have been? Has anyone found a list of passenger reservations for that day on these flights and compared that list to the manifest? Are there any other high-profile near-misses that would beg similar questions?


I appreciate any information and/or links you could provide. Searching for the truth.

Done...for now.
EDIT: trying again to fix this link...otherwise I'll try later. Thanks.

[edit on 28-9-2008 by AlWhite]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 08:30 AM
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Here is a very notable cancellation of travel plans....


Pentagon Generals Cancel Travel Plans

Twice a week, the “Threat Committee,” a group of top intelligence officials and diplomats, meets in the White House complex to review dozens of terrorist threats at home and abroad. In late June the CIA warned of possible terrorist action against U.S. targets, including those in the United States, for the Fourth of July. Nothing happened, but then in July the agency again warned about possible attacks overseas. The threat seemed grave enough to force U.S. ships in Middle Eastern ports to head for sea.

Three weeks ago there was another warning that a terrorist strike might be imminent. But there was no mention of where. On Sept. 10, NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:21 PM
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Interesting that you bring this up I have often wondered if they were deliberately trying to minimize the casualties that day. The terrorists ability to pick four planes that were virtually empty for there size interested the 9-11 Commission so much that they devoted some of their precious time to researching it. As you mentioned they determined that the planes were filled at average or below average but basically at a normal level based on a monthly average for every Tuesday. They mentioned though that during this average Tuesday always had the lowest amount of passengers. One has to wonder how the terrorists knew this. The surveillance flights they took which were less than five were taken to understand the procedures of the flight crew and to plan the takeovers. The other reasons why I wonder if someone was trying to minimize the casualties are as follows.

First, They hit the towers at 846am and 903am, this seems like a very early time to attack a target if your goal is to kill people. The 93 bombing took place around noon and it is well known that there were are more people at the towers at that time than there was at 9am. Many people had still not arrived to work yet or were on there way up. I dont buy the reason being that they wanted to get a new cross country flight loaded with fuel which is why they hijacked the morning flights. The cross country flights are just that no matter what time of day they leave, all loaded with plenty of fuel.

Second, the hijackers managed to pick the one section of the giant pentagon that was under construction. Not only that but the construction that was being finished up at that point was being done to make the building bomb proof. Major upgrades, including blast proof windows that in some cases seem to have not even cracked after being impacted by a 757. Because of this there were hardly anyone occupying this section.

The next one may be reaching a little and I understand that b/c you would have to believe that the buildings were intentionally destroyed but here goes.

I have also wondered if the buildings really were brought down by cd one has to wonder if they waited untill 1, everyone that was basically possible to get out was out of the building at the time of collapse. 2, that once the calls from authorities had started going out that they were finally coming close to the actual damaged sections the first collapse began. Could this be why the second tower hit collapsed first, if I remember correctly they were able to make it to the damaged section of the south tower first. We have also been told that the stairways at the time of collapse were basically empty (with non responders) and that the majority of the victims were the trapped ones above the damaged sections.

Regardless of what you believe, the fact is that there could have been a tremendous amount of more victims that day. Dont forget the first estimates of the death toll at the wtc's was 6000 to 10000 people. If the hijackers had chosen to attack around noon this would have surely been the case and had the section of the pentagon been full that day it would have had thousands of people in it instead of hundreds. So if you ask me..Yes some were just extremely lucky that day.




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