I remember how I percieved the world before the concept of god was introduced to me. It was a wonderous place but still it was just a place. God was a persona I had to be told about in order to believe in it. Hearsay is not proof.

I wish I had've been able to develop my own relationship with the universe ..I think it would have made my life alot more richer. I remember being told about mortal sin and saying "but I haven't done anything wrong!"; the concept of "God" never felt right to me.

[edit on 10-10-2008 by riley]

Originally posted by LuDaCrIs
What if its both?

if the universe is not random then it has intent. If at any moment something in the universe is not random, then it has intent.

What if somethings are random and some have a helping hand?

are we going to play in the "what if sandbox" now? I don't know what sort of response you're expecting. There are endless possible answers . . .

How would you distinguish between the two?

you probably can't

How can you say one is not the other?

you can "say" whatever you like

How do you distinguish coincidence with plan?

you probably can't

This thread is about understanding how we know something.

Brush up on Epistemology. It's all dependent on your view concerning the possible perception of the imperfect human brain.

How do you know the universe has intent?

i never said i did or that it does . . .

How does it "intend"?

the definition i'm using for "intent" means it would have a plan or purpose.
I may need to elucidate my terms . . .

What is the process behind it?

i don't know, but i would venture to guess that its processes are governed by the true laws which govern the universe; and not terrestrial laws.


[edit on 10/10/2008 by JPhish]

Look JPhish,

I get your game. I am not going to allow for it.

Everything you said above should be discussed, but not here. It is completely irrelevant. Do you know how I know that?

This thread is about experiments creation scientists are doing.

How many experiments have you put forth so far in our two page conversation?

None.

This means you missed the premise.

Answer me this question: Do you have any experiments to present that creation scientists are doing?

If yes, then lets see them.

If no, goodbye!

Originally posted by LuDaCrIs
Answer me this question: Do you have any experiments to present that creation scientists are doing?

off the top of my head? i don't believe i do.

*Raises Hand*

Hey, yah, just curious: Why are you asking a question to which you should already know the answer?

If there were any experiments then we would all know.
It would be on the nightly news.
The last time I checked the news, there was nothing.
Yep, it still takes faith to believe in the Bible - who'd of thunk it...

I'm guessing that you asked the question as a kind of 'gotcha' to creationists.
But it doesn't really matter because it's not going to accomplish anything.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
I'm guessing that you asked the question as a kind of 'gotcha' to creationists.
But it doesn't really matter because it's not going to accomplish anything.

Ok boys, shut'er down. Won't be needing this discussion forum anymore. I guess we shouldn't press creationists even though they constantly proclaim their ideas are scientific.

The point is, they're the ones stepping into the realm of science. Not the other way around. When that happens, experiments are in order. That's all I am asking for. If you don't want to participate, no hard feelings.

Well, I experiment by standing in a dark room and shouting "LET THERE BE LIGHT!"

Sometimes I shout it loudly, sometimes I say it nicely.

I try a deep voice sometimes, kinda booming. Other times I try a nice gentle tone.

One time, when I was experimenting, I clapped my hands for emphasis afterward, and there was light! I turned them off again and repeated it several times to make sure it worked, and it did, every time.

I thought for sure I had solved the whole creation thing then, but for some reason I can only get it to work at my Grandma's house.

I plan to keep trying though.