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posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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www.libertyforlife.com...

from the source:

www.libertyforlife.com...

so, you can see there 1.000.000 of some plastic... what ???? I think, in my wishful thinking it is for flowers to grow ?

there are too many questions and no answers

so, the lack of evidence means the evidence of lack ?
and even with the evidence, there is no proof

so, lucky people will wait for the proof.
unlucky will ask as many questions as possible, to got the answer

and what do you think when you asked a question and have NO answer ?

I think, my question was TOO GOOD.

and when I hear the answer like - who told you blahblahblah this is for flowers - I am thinking, I must be really st..pid to believe in sth like this

simply. and saying that somebody has some "conspiracy state of mind" is really not an answer, as this only means that the answers are really too strange, and would make too much problem for somebody who should give the answer




posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
The majority of people are ignorant and lazy, too lazy to do anything to change their situation or perhaps complacent would be a better word. And yes I am intollerant of those who bury their heads in the sand and just think it will all go away.


Talk about using labels. Did it ever occur to you that a lot of people simply don't believe in what you consider to be the situation? It's quite unfair of you to preach being open minded, and yet accuse those who don't believe as you do of burying their heads in the sand.


People quest for the truth yet cannot handle it when its is given to them. The simple facts are that the US is turning into a Fascist State pure and simple, all the signs are there. Thats not gloom and doom that is just the plain truth.


Then you can prove this, correct? All your signs are wonderful, but based upon how groundlessly, and eagerly, I've seen people here arrive at unsupported conclusions, I simply will not trust your facts just because you say so. And please....people can't handle the truth? Are you writing a movie script here, or perhaps just being a tad melodramatic?


Try to stop labelling everything as gloom and doom and see it as an educational guide to breaking free of the system that enslaves us all.


The irony of this statement is that the majority of conspiracy theorists here offer nothing in terms of practical advice should their theories be true. They're merely spreading more woe-is-me pleas. Some education, indeed.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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Thrash, I see that you ask posters to provide info yet you have been given it but you for whatever reason refuses to believe. I said history is replete with acts of mans inhumanity to his fellow man. May I ask, are you new born, I'm sure you must of heard of World Wars, and despot nations or do you not believe in it. Stop asking people to provide evidence and do some research as I and many others do.

You dont bring anything to the debate other than being critical of others who dont back up their statments. What, you need written proof that the US is in trillions of debt, that it is fighting 2 illegal wars, that it is responsible for the deaths of 2 million Iraqis. How much more info do you need or is it just a case that you cannot believe irrespective of what facts etc. are provided.

The greatest threat to the people of any nation is its own Goverment and Rulers, that is an historical and documented fact. Do you have a problem with that or do you think its all a pack of lies. Just what do you want provided to you to make you believe and the question is are you actually able to believe. I'm not attacking you I'm asking a honest question, just what are your motives and ideas that when people publish their concerns that "you" dont believe them.

What is it that you find unpalatable in matters such as these, is it a case of it cannot happen in the US, do you see the US as the good guys and every one else is the enemy, perhaps you may want to elucidate on this matter



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 12:13 PM
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www.libertyforlife.com...



“Enclosed is the information you requested pertaining to the Army’s policy and guidance for establishing civilian inmate labor program and civilian prison camps on Army installations. This information has not yet been published (it is currently at the printers), however, it has been funded, staffed, and does reflect current Army policy. I home you find this information useful."


so, what else is needed ?

www.libertyforlife.com...

&

www.libertyforlife.com...

I hope so some people do not know this source, seems very good. I had info about it about 1 year ago, checked all informations - and I have still many questions

but, nobody want to answer them
so maybe answers are too difficult ?

[edit on 30-9-2008 by sechmet]



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
Thrash, I see that you ask posters to provide info yet you have been given it but you for whatever reason refuses to believe.


None of the evidence provided proves that these train cars are meant for prisoners. That's the whole premise behind this thread.

Even though this most basic fact is sitting on the table, most of the CT's here ignore it and push forward sowing more doom and gloom, as you call it.




I said history is replete with acts of mans inhumanity to his fellow man. May I ask, are you new born, I'm sure you must of heard of World Wars, and despot nations or do you not believe in it. Stop asking people to provide evidence and do some research as I and many others do.


Non sequitur. Why do world wars keep being brought into this mix, other than in attempts to draw emotional appeals from history in order to "prove" the paranoia surrounding these train cars. Yeah, history is replete with a bunch of bad stuff. Does any of that bad stuff prove bad stuff is going on with these cars? Of course not.



You dont bring anything to the debate other than being critical of others who dont back up their statments. What, you need written proof that the US is in trillions of debt, that it is fighting 2 illegal wars, that it is responsible for the deaths of 2 million Iraqis. How much more info do you need or is it just a case that you cannot believe irrespective of what facts etc. are provided.


More non sequiturs. This thread isn't about debt or the wars overseas right now. It's about a bunch of empty train cars parked outside of a FEMA camp. Please don't misuse logic by attempting to say that because I am not impressed by the evidence provided for the train cars, that I also must not believe in debt or wars.

See? I do bring something to the debate: logic.



The greatest threat to the people of any nation is its own Goverment and Rulers, that is an historical and documented fact. Do you have a problem with that or do you think its all a pack of lies.


I don't have a problem with it at all. I don't even really disagree with it. But just because the government should be kept under close watch does not mean the government is always out to get you and send you away to camps. See the stretch there?



Just what do you want provided to you to make you believe and the question is are you actually able to believe.


Facts. Pictures of empty train cars that can be used for a multitude of purposes is not going to convince me that they are prison cars. Furthermore, it is not up to me to help you along with this proof. These are your (or rather, the OP's) claims, thus it is up to him to provide such data. Again, this is a fundamental principle of debate and logic.



What is it that you find unpalatable in matters such as these, is it a case of it cannot happen in the US, do you see the US as the good guys and every one else is the enemy, perhaps you may want to elucidate on this matter


The only thing unpalatable for me here is how willing a lot of people are to completely disregard logic and reason in favor of merely believing what they'd like to. Let's call these people "reverse sheeple"; that is, they are every bit as much sheeple as the conventional definition of the word, only they believe in the opposite.

This blatant disregard for common sense and application of logic is just as dangerous as refusing to be open minded about what may be going on in the world today. Not to mention that it perpetuates a clouded gene pool.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 12:21 PM
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Why would they park trains to remove people from there? They trains would be parked in big cities.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by sechmet
so, what else is needed ?


Confirmation of said sources. I haven't had the time to thoroughly peruse Liberty For Life's website yet, but my initial response is simply that it is a NWO/conspiracy website. That doesn't mean its information is not valid, just that external verification is most likely called for.

EDIT--This website is apparently religious-based, or at least skewed along religious lines.

For instance, under the New World Order section, the author calls the agents of the NWO "worshippers of Lucifer".

Not boding well as a source.

[edit on 30-9-2008 by thrashee]



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by musselwhite
reply to post by Simplynoone
 
ok, let's say they are for hauling cars...........could you explain to me how they stack the cars? you did say the chains were for the second stack right?





It's called a "ramp". Come on people, these are rail cars used for auto transportation. Check out this link:
www.polyweb.com...
scroll down a bit and you'll see these carriers loaded up with cars on two levels by use of "ramps". Really simple and innocent stuff.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 01:46 PM
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Thras, this is just not about empty train cars, and its is quite wrong to take them out of the context in which they are presented. These vehicles are not sat at some railhead, siding, motor manufaturer or any other such place. They are parked next to what is claimed to be a FEMA camp. and what your trying to prove is that there is nothing amis with such vehicles.

You may not want people to know the truth or the fact that millions of people were transported like cattle all over Europe during ww2 to their deaths. You may think there is no connection yet just like then people like you did not believe the stories and just like now people like you do not believe the stories in fact you are trying to make people think there is nothing to fear when there is much to fear of what has taken place in the US since 9/11.

You cannot prove they are not to be used for some unconstitutional use yet you question others and expect them to provide proofs well were are our proofs, you have none do you. Your opinions carry no more weight than the next man and it would appear that you are trying to derail this thread with your style of argument.

All of the recent events in the US are connected yet you choose to isolate these events and claim that anyone who discusses them as doom and gloom sayers. Well Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma, 9/11, Patriot, illegal wars have all happened. Now you have Police on the streets of the US armed to the teeth and for what I may add not for the safety of the US people. On top of that you have 4k families a day losing their homes, falling education standards, no health care for the poor yet hundreds of billions are spent on weapons and war.

And yet you think this unimportant, that they are not pieces of the same jigsaw when in reality they are. So just what is your game plan here on ATS perhaps you could care to answer some questions as you seem fit to ask all others for their answers.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by mazengniefsmutz
 


Where in the US are you?



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
Thras, this is just not about empty train cars, and its is quite wrong to take them out of the context in which they are presented. These vehicles are not sat at some railhead, siding, motor manufaturer or any other such place. They are parked next to what is claimed to be a FEMA camp. and what your trying to prove is that there is nothing amis with such vehicles.


That is precisely what this is about. Here's the thing that I pointed out earlier: just because these cars are near a supposed FEMA camp means, in and of itself, NOTHING. That is the only thing people here have to go on, and frankly, it's not enough.



You may not want people to know the truth or the fact that millions of people were transported like cattle all over Europe during ww2 to their deaths.


Again, you are completely misrepresenting what I said. I hope people know about this. I just cringe whenever this is brought up to apparently strengthen the comparison for these rail cars now. THAT's what I don't care for, because it brings no value to the debate at hand, other than to present emotional angles to strengthen a connection that cannot be made otherwise. See what I'm getting at here?



You may think there is no connection yet just like then people like you did not believe the stories and just like now people like you do not believe the stories in fact you are trying to make people think there is nothing to fear when there is much to fear of what has taken place in the US since 9/11.


No, sir. What I'm saying is that you have to prove a connection first. You can't just say, "Hey look, they used trains in the past to cart people off to death camps! That must mean they're doing the same thing now!"

That's absolutely, stunningly, ignorant.



You cannot prove they are not to be used for some unconstitutional use yet you question others and expect them to provide proofs well were are our proofs, you have none do you.


Sigh. Why do people like you never really understand burden of proof? It's like the first principle of logical debate. I don't HAVE to prove ANYTHING; I'm not the one making claims here, the OP is. Get it? What you're doing here is committing the fallacy of shifting the burden of proof. Don't worry, though, you have lots and lots of company there.



Your opinions carry no more weight than the next man and it would appear that you are trying to derail this thread with your style of argument.


Funny, I wasn't offering opinions, I was offering logic. Nice try, though. And my style of argument? You mean following those same principles of logic and reason? Yeah, it's a shame I do that a lot here. It's awfully inconvenient for a lot of people.



All of the recent events in the US are connected yet you choose to isolate these events and claim that anyone who discusses them as doom and gloom sayers.


Now all you have to do is prove they are connected. Good luck. And hey, don't blame me--you're the one who just claimed they were.



And yet you think this unimportant, that they are not pieces of the same jigsaw when in reality they are. So just what is your game plan here on ATS perhaps you could care to answer some questions as you seem fit to ask all others for their answers.


Again you now must prove they are pieces of the same puzzle. See how whenever you make a claim like it's clear-as-day fact, I ask you to back that up? Are you getting the hang of it yet?

My game plan is to shoot down piss-poor logic wherever I can, to be frank. There is a horrific amount of it here in ATS, and it is my HOPE that instead of people getting all icky-feeling about my insistence on logic and reason, that they instead start learning how to present their claims in much more palatable fashions. Deny ignorance, remember?



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by thrashee
 


Sorry, question was for you; Where in the US do you live?



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 02:06 PM
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Guys, I'm not going to take sides either way but to everyone saying, 'These are trains to transport cars!' Or, 'These are cattle trains!' This pretty silly. What do you expect- the government to make special trains just to haul around it's citizens en masse if this truly is what is the eventual plan?

No, they most likely would use things like this that would do the job. Germany used cattle trains to transport victims to the concentration camps.

Then to see this train outside a FEMA camp? Hello?

Wake up.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

If you are looking for 'proof,' then write to your government asking them to explain. I'm sure you'll get an honest answer.


[edit on 9/30/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 02:18 PM
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Listen Mr Disinfo Agent you may think your being smart but your not and logic, no your not using any of that either. Since the murder of JFK the US in its Foreign policy has sough to wage war, commit acts of terrorism, murder and main right up to the present day. Many of the victims are its own citizens, since before 9/11 we have had attacks on the people instigated by succesive Goverments, these events are all well documented and recorded in history yet you come here and try to make out that there is nothing amis with anything said Goverment does.

The current US policy to other countire is that we will attck you if our interests or so called friends are threatened, that is a stated Goverment policy end of and yet you cast suspicion on the intended use of rail cars.

That in isolation these rail cars are totally innocent until somebody proves otherwise, well what will it take when they are full of people then you wll believe will you. How are people supposed to prepare for a coming disaster if they are unaware of it. So using your logic you wont believe the floods coming till the waters up to your neck is that the case. And if so that does not make one a very bright person does it.

The simple facts are that we the people may not ever be told the truth till its to late or never at all. Your logic is flawed in that you are stating that unless somebody provides absolute proof that the Goverment or those behind it want to incarserate millions of people you dont and wont believe it will happen ever yet again history is replete with such actions and proves you and your so called logic completey wrong.

You either believe that the Goverment past and present has commited the aforementioned acts or you do not its got nothing to do with logic or anything else. You either accept the known history and facts or you disbelieve it. And again one wonders what your agenda is here on this thread.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


HAY THERE I AM TRAIN ENTHUSIEST,I PHOTGRAPH TRAINS AND COLLECT MODEL TRAINS, AND I CAN TELL YOU WHAT THE RAIL CARS ARE, THAY ARE "AUTO RACKS" THAY CARRIE AUTOMOBILES NOT PRISONERS,THEASE CARS ARE LIKE THE CAR CARRIEING TRUCKS THAT YOU SEE ON ANY HIWAY OR CAR DEALER SHIP,THAY ARE ENCLOSED TO KEEP VANDELS FROM HARMING THE CARGO,YOU CAN SEE THEASE CARS PICTUER ON ANY RAILROAD,RailPictures.net ,IS ONE SITE,THE CHAINS KEEP THE AUTOMOBILES FROM SHIFTING AROUND WHEN THAY ARE IN TRANSIT,AND THE"BENCHES"ARE WALK WAYS,AND THERE ARE FOLD UP RAMPS THAT GO FROM CAR TO CAR SO THE AUTOS CAN BE DRIVEN OFF THE RAIL CARS,THE CARS ARE OPEN ON THE ENDS SO THAT,THAY CAN BE BACKED IN TO A TERMINAL AND OFF LOADED OR LOADED,THERE COULD BE A DOZZEN REASONS,THE RAILCARS WERE SET OUT THERE,I CANT ANSWER THAT PART...MAYBE THERE IS A AUTO MANUFACTERING PLANT OR LAGE DEALER SHIP SUPPLYER NEAR BY...OR THE LOCAL RAIL YARD WAS FULL....BUT NO THOSE CARS WERE NOT FOR PRISONER TRANSPORT,...NOW IF IT WERE PASSENGER CARS WITH HEAVY DOORS AND BARS ON THE WINDOWS THEN I WOULD WORRIE...YES PRISON CARS DO EXIST ....BUT THAY HAVE NOT USED THEM IN ABOUT 100 YEARS....FDG...RAIL FAN



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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This thread has turned it's participants into the ATS equivalent of congress. Us Vs. them.... we've created our own two party system, and we've spent 22 pages arguing back and forth rather than investigating and seeking the truth.

Now, lets see. As you're average US citizen, I probably would not be allowed to use one of these rail cars to store half the junk from my garage. My question is, who exactly would come to stop me from doing so. These cars are obviously not public property, so someone has to own them. If they're cattle cars, for hauling cattle, it's reasonable to expect that somewhere on the cars would be a placard or the like indicating who the cars belong to. Same if they're for transporting vehicles. Essentially, there should be somewhere, something identifying a transport company that sent them to be parked where they are. The U.S. Government, last time I checked, wasn't in the business of moving cattle or cars from A to B. Now, if it turns out to be impossible for John Q. Public, through reasonable investigative measures, to determine the rightful owner of these cars, then the bells and whistles in my head begin to make some noise.

Could be as simple as XYZ auto transport owns the cars, and has them parked there because it's a convenient stretch of rail that they can remain stationary on while their yard, 1,652 miles away lays some new track or something.

Or... could be traced to a Haliburton subsidiary, who's official purpose has nothing to do with cars or cows, and just purchased them from XYZ auto transport without declaring intent. The CEO is found to be the second cousin of the brother-in-law of the guy who founded Blackwater, and who's face can be found in footage outside of a Bilderberg meeting in Alex Jones' "End Game"...

The point is, I just read 22 pages, and nobody has actually ferreted out any additional information on why these particular cars are parked where they are. However, there seems to be plenty of bickering back and forth. Not exactly how I'd approach the concept of denying ignorance.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
Guys, I'm not going to take sides either way but to everyone saying, 'These are trains to transport cars!' Or, 'These are cattle trains!' This pretty silly. What do you expect- the government to make special trains just to haul around it's citizens en masse if this truly is what is the eventual plan?


Why is that silly? Suggesting that train cars are being used for what they were designed to be used for seems less silly than suggesting alternative purposes for which you have no proof, wouldn't you say?



No, they most likely would use things like this that would do the job. Germany used cattle trains to transport victims to the concentration camps.


How many times do I have to say this? Just because they can be used for something else doesn't mean they will be. Either provide evidence this is the case or quit insisting on it. And Germany? Really? Hey everyone, did you know the US is soon to begin an Aryan nation push? You didn't? Well, don't you know there are train cars parked outside of a FEMA camp, and because this is like WWII, doesn't that mean we're going to become Nazi Germany?



Then to see this train outside a FEMA camp? Hello?

Wake up.


Wake up yourself. You are drawing the vaguest of correlations without any real support other than proximity. How's that for logic?



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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Trash, I see your still at it, it would appear that you don't want to answer the akward questions yet you still attack those who post their views. Get it into your head, these rail cars or any other can, may and would be used to transport people if required in a martial law type of situation. You have people in the US on peacful demonstrations that are openly attacked by the Police and private security companies and your still asking for proof. TROLL ALERT.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
Listen Mr Disinfo Agent you may think your being smart but your not and logic, no your not using any of that either.


Oh please. Can't you sorts come up with any better come back other than simply calling me a dis-info agent? Pathetic.

And I am being smart, and am using logic. I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and guess that your further points of refutation won't actually address my logic, but rather your assumptions of what I'm trying to say. Because people like you can never debate logic with logic.



Since the murder of JFK the US in its Foreign policy has sough to wage war, commit acts of terrorism, murder and main right up to the present day. Many of the victims are its own citizens, since before 9/11 we have had attacks on the people instigated by succesive Goverments, these events are all well documented and recorded in history yet you come here and try to make out that there is nothing amis with anything said Goverment does.


Hmm, it would appear that my guess is right. I love the mention of JFK and the drivel that passes as current US history, but what does this have to do with my logic? That's right--absolutely nothing.



That in isolation these rail cars are totally innocent until somebody proves otherwise, well what will it take when they are full of people then you wll believe will you.


What will it take? Hey, it's not my claim, it's the OPs. How about ANYTHING that even faintly resembles fact or logic? Sorry, comparing things to Nazi Germany doesn't cut it. Neither do photos of empty rail cars. Neither to hysterics over the NWO. Barf up something that comes close to evidence, or admit you're here merely to cry woe-is-me, the NWO is coming.


How are people supposed to prepare for a coming disaster if they are unaware of it. So using your logic you wont believe the floods coming till the waters up to your neck is that the case. And if so that does not make one a very bright person does it.


Oh PLEASE. None of you have really said ANYTHING about how to prepare; you just endlessly say people need to. What does that mean, exactly? Face it--you're not here to help people out, you're here to reinforce your conspiracy beliefs.



Your logic is flawed in that you are stating that unless somebody provides absolute proof that the Goverment or those behind it want to incarserate millions of people you dont and wont believe it will happen ever yet again history is replete with such actions and proves you and your so called logic completey wrong.


Actually, it doesn't. I don't believe in groundless things just because you can scrape together similarities throughout history. That's idiotic. My logic is this: I have NO REASON to believe in your claims unless you give me a valid reason to do so. So far you haven't. That means you failed, not I.

My logic stands.



You either believe that the Goverment past and present has commited the aforementioned acts or you do not its got nothing to do with logic or anything else. You either accept the known history and facts or you disbelieve it. And again one wonders what your agenda is here on this thread.


Sure it does. Why can't you get this through your head? Trying to say that because Germany used cattle cars in the past to cart Jews off to death camps DOES NOT PROVE that America is planning on doing the same.

How on God's green earth can you actually use a computer and yet not understand this most basic of facts?

I'm sure you wonder what my agenda is; the fact that you continually question it only proves my point that people like you care more about the conspiracy belief--seeing things that aren't there--than you do about spreading any real truth.



posted on Sep, 30 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
Trash, I see your still at it, it would appear that you don't want to answer the akward questions yet you still attack those who post their views. Get it into your head, these rail cars or any other can, may and would be used to transport people if required in a martial law type of situation. You have people in the US on peacful demonstrations that are openly attacked by the Police and private security companies and your still asking for proof. TROLL ALERT.


Bah. Resort to ad hominems if you like, it doesn't strengthen your position, it only demonstrates that you are incapable of addressing me in a logical and reasonable way.

What questions have I not answered for you? "can, may, and would be used"? Now you are claiming they WILL be used in a martial law situation.

Prove it.



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