Originally posted by antar
I cannot drive with my headlights out either and that really irkes me...When did that change and why is it now the accepted norm?

It's been proven that running daytime headlights reduce the chances of you getting into an accident. Further, you can claim reduction in insurance you pay (I do) and be effectively paid for this. In addition, you automatically comply with having the lights on when it rains and potentially saved yourself a ticket or two.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
What I really want to comment on is the bogus argument being made in this thread. There is a huge difference between a national ID card, and having cameras filming you and your loved ones in the flesh, going to the bathroom, engaging in romantic activities, etc. It's absurd to compare the two. Having an ID card is one thing... having a room full of government employees watching me and my wife engage in reproductive activities is an entirely different thing.

I couldnt disagree with you more. You may attribute more privacy to what you and your wife do together, but personally if it was between giving up my social security number and other info, and showing a little skin, you better believe I'd rather be stripped of my clothes than stripped of my personal info.

Originally posted by scientist
but personally if it was between giving up my social security number and other info, and showing a little skin, you better believe I'd rather be stripped of my clothes than stripped of my personal info.

I don't get it. You are not required to parade with a huge placard showing your SSN. The National ID card does not contain info on whether you like spicy food or how much you spend on booze every week. It's just that, an ID. Most countries have it (I've seen a few) and it's hardly an infringement of anything.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I don't get it. You are not required to parade with a huge placard showing your SSN.

are you familiar with RFID technology? Its even worse than wearing a huge placard. At least if you have a placard, you could tell who was looking at your info. With RFID, someone could just casually walk by, and obtain a perfect copy of your i.d.

If you still don't "get it," then further explanation won't really convince you. Let's just way I am more sensitive about information than your average bear. You don't have to agree, or understand.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by scientist]

Originally posted by scientist
are you familiar with RFID technology? Its even worse than wearing a huge placard. At least if you have a placard, you could tell who was looking at your info. With RFID, someone could just casually walk by, and obtain a perfect copy of your i.d.

If you are saying the technology is not right or mature enough, you get no argument from me -- I agree with you. All I said applies to the situation when it works. I thought that was a given.

Let's just way I am more sensitive about information than your average bear. You don't have to agree, or understand.

Indeed! I still wonder whether you find that your current driver license betrays a lot of private info.

Yessiree,and right on.Starred and flagged.I will use this.I can already hear the squealing sycophants saying,"but they would never do that!",but this should put some perspective on the matter.Good post.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I find the OP farcical. Look, the driver license most people use, is a de facto national ID but it does have a few shortcomings. I really fail to see how a national ID card infringes on any of my rights, which I happen to value, by the way. If anything, it will help to crack down in illegal immigration and crime, which would be a good thing.

Sadly though that isn't correct at all, it won't stop very much because criminals always adapt. There will always be employers happy to emply illegal immigrants andpay in cash. Furthermore, my fingerprints are my property, as is my DNA, therefore i shouldn't eb asked to surrender it.

On top of that being DNA and fingerprinted is what happens t criminals, making me feel like one (which this would) isn't something i'm after. Also, every tyranical government loves stuff like this, we have a democracy now but who knows what can happen in the future.

Before putting power into the hands of your government you have to ask the question, what will happen in the future? At the same time you need to take a sobering look at the past and what governments with power have done.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
The author of the OP uses a logical fallacy by resorting to Reductio ar Absurdum, namely suggesting planting CCTV cameras in the bathroom (reference to scatology) and in the bedroom (voyerism, anyone). Well, that's just that, a farce.

I'm not resorting to anything. The original arguement is "nothing to hide, nothing to fear". Therefore if you have nothing to hide then cameras in your home really shouldn't be a problem. This is obviously just where we decide to draw the line, but lets be clear. The less of a line you draw then the easier it is to be abused in the future. Will you also accept a microchip if they decide to bring that out?

That isn't paranoid conspiracy either, they've developed the chips, just check out verichip and see for yourself. Being treated like i've done something wrong before i've done it isn't freedom to me.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Indeed! I still wonder whether you find that your current driver license betrays a lot of private info.

My current driving license and passport include hardly any of my details. My address i don't mind, my name i don't mind, but i do take issue with being forced to give fingerprints and eventually DNA. That i have a large issue with as it basically treats everyone as guilty and suspected criminals before they've ever done anything.

When someone has committed a crime i'm right there with you thinking they should be DNA sampled, fingerprints taken, photos of all identifying features and everything else besides. Only when they've actually commited the crime though.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Let's just way I am more sensitive about information than your average bear. You don't have to agree, or understand.

Indeed! I still wonder whether you find that your current driver license betrays a lot of private info.

ha, well I'm a bad example. I don't even let my complex put my name into the security box. because I don't want my last name posted. It may be paranoia, but to maintain sanity I just call it privacy.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by scientist]

Ok ill say it it will put a whole new look to Homemade porn!!!!! sorry
I understand the point here "if you have nothing to hide Blah blah"

Why stop there how about door to door drug testing door to door sniffer dogs loking for exposive resedue "For your safty! hay if you have nothing to hide it wont be a problem for you"

Sniffer dogs patroling streets, stations, concerts.

Big brother gone mad.

Its your safty folks If you have nothing to hide you will be fine.

I see the point!!

Would it happen in your home? I doubt it but the other stuff i have mentiond could and does to some degree.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

I don't get it. You are not required to parade with a huge placard showing your SSN. The National ID card does not contain info on whether you like spicy food or how much you spend on booze every week. It's just that, an ID. Most countries have it (I've seen a few) and it's hardly an infringement of anything.

Youre right so lets get some over here after all the government will be able to track whereever we are all the time, so if we get lost in the forest these things might come in handy or if we are kidnapped.

Lets one up it and get microchipped that way we wont ever forget to bring our ID card with us. That way we can fully resemble cattle and stop BSing ourselves that we are somewhat more intelligent, because comments like yours are completely idiotic.

The biggest things that the idiots who agree with big brother forget is that power corrupts, over time people with power want more power and want to stay in power longer. So absolute power, the power to see everything everywhere all the time will corrupt rapidly and definately. There will be no question "Oh, are they corrupt yet?", you will be able to see it they will be able to break down your door and haul you off for even thinking of something thats wrong with their way of running things.

Nothing they do is good for us, WE HAVE TO BALANCE THEIR POWER! The more power we give them the more Power they can use AGAINST US, NOT FOR US.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by caballero]