Nothing To Hide? CCTV In Your Home Then!

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posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 08:45 AM
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I'm really tired of the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" arguement. This is used whenever someone like myself is against ID cards or a national DNA database. So for those people who like to fall back on this arguement as their safe haven frm discussing the issues at hand. I ask, why not have CCTV in your home then?

Why not have, 24/7 CCTV surveillance, observed by the government right in your living room, bedroom, oh and bathroom? Afterall if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. Anyone who doesn't want this must be a terrorist, thief or murderer by the logic of the people who use this arguement.

I think it's about time that this little phrase died.




posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 08:56 AM
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People say "nothing to hide" not realizing their privacy is a precious thing to lose. Especially at the hands of their employees in an obvious power reversal trip.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 08:58 AM
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I mentioned this earlier. Good thread, star and flag to yee sir!


It's always the same argument, and thats what they want you to say!

If you have nothing to hide, why not let us install a camera in your home! It not as if your doing anything illegal in your house? Or is it?



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 09:38 AM
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I agree completely, I get tired of hearing that particular phrase too.

Of course, your argument does take the point to an extreme conclusion but responses to this - and I've used the same line of thought you have myself in arguments - only illustrate the basic point that people, generally, draw lines in the sand in different places.

What's acceptable to some isn't acceptable to others and when this disparity presents itself, then, for neither love nor money, can someone more willing to give up freedoms actually understand someone less willing. It just doesn't make sense to them in the same way that someone more protective of 'freedoms' just doesn't understand why some are so willing to give them up.

People just place different values on freedom. Throw a few bugbears into the ring - paedophiles, terrorists &c - and watch the stock price of freedom and privacy go into free fall.

However, eventually, everyone does draw a line in the sand, and usually it's at the suggestion of putting CCTV in their own homes. However, I honestly and genuinely think it will happen eventually. It's just a case of convincing enough people that it's for 'our protection' and wheeling out some real or imagined scenarios that could have been prevented with CCTV in our homes.

Whilst adults now baulk at the idea of CCTV springing up everywhere with databases for this and databases for that as well as mandatory checks to go with them, much of this is based on the idea that we've managed for so long without them and so we're naturally suspicious. However, right now, there's babies being born that will never know any different at all.

They in turn might grow-up under the belief that changes implemented during their own life times may seem restrictive compared to what they knew as young kids - never mind what adults know now in 2008. However, by the time their children are adults - and this isn't that far in the future - you'll have a couple of generations of people who've never, ever known any different and are more accepting to increasingly intrusive levels of monitoring.

When I was a young teen, I was signed-up for a library card and that's about it. Teenagers are now used to being part of a plugged-in network and allowing strangers to know what they've been doing, who they're doing it with and when. The idea of things like LiveJournal and FaceBook as well as signing up for this that and the other would have just been weird to a young Merriman Weir. Society has made this acceptable and the norm - for unknown strangers to be reading your thoughts, your jokes, your talking about the mundanity of you getting pissed-up the night before; all the while people are 'right click and save as' pictures of you.

I've been saying this for about 15 years; if anyone has expected a police state in Britain to happen over night and take the form of armed police dragging people away in the night, curfews and watch towers on street corners &c has been deluding themselves. It's always been about the 'drip-drip-drip'.

To be honest, I'm not wholly convinced it's all orchestrated. I'm sure some people will benefit and relish the eventual control but I'm as equally open to the idea that society is sleepwalking into a 'police state lite' thanks to well-meaning but horribly misguided groups of people.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I'm really tired of the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" arguement. This is used whenever someone like myself is against ID cards or a national DNA database. So for those people who like to fall back on this arguement as their safe haven frm discussing the issues at hand. I ask, why not have CCTV in your home then?

Why not have, 24/7 CCTV surveillance, observed by the government right in your living room, bedroom, oh and bathroom? Afterall if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. Anyone who doesn't want this must be a terrorist, thief or murderer by the logic of the people who use this arguement.

I think it's about time that this little phrase died.






I agree with you % 100 !

Here in Nottingham , we have worlds most heavily cctv'ed area . ( I still can not believe that ).

People need to learn that ;

(your) Raw Data becomes (their)Data and then it gets a Format and it's becomes Information .


Information = Power .


Toto, I’ve a feeling we’re not in Kansas anymore…



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 02:23 PM
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This "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" arguement is the last bastion of people who cannot construct a good arguement for DNA databases and ID cards. It's like they think it's a safe haven, something that cannot be refuted. It's there because they can't give a satisfying answer for the databases.

Whilst i agree that it's down to where you draw the line, it's also true that any dictator in the modern age in a western society will need to push those boundaries slowly back rather than shift them all at once. Anyone drawing a line slightly further back over and over just ends up without any sand to draw a line in.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 11:18 PM
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That woud be so cool if someone had to watch me all day. They can set one up in my bathroom as long as it is smell-o-vision and they have to sniff test me. Lol, the poor guy watching me would kill himself from bored doom.. Oh look, he ate again, he is working again, he is masturbating again, he is taking another crap... lol

It seems like cruel and unusual punishment for the government.. and I am kinda anti government but I would feel sorry for them.


[edit on 28-9-2008 by justsomeboreddude]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by mystiq
People say "nothing to hide" not realizing their privacy is a precious thing to lose.


and people don't seem to realise that their privacy and information belongs to themselves! some people actually think that the government is generously granting us our privacy and freedom!

they don't understand that the government was put there to represent the nations citizens, not control them!



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:07 AM
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You can bet people are already watched in there homes. I have been monitored 24 hours a day since 1992. Never commited any crimes, all it takes are loons, that wants to destroy your lifes.

That nothing to hide thing, is shown up in my life, i have never done anything wrong, but this has absolutely destroyed my life.

So up yours to the if you have done nothing wrong crowd. These people do not care about that, and if you lost all your privacy, you will find, that it absolutely destroys your life.

Many americans are probably being watched in there homes, though i live in london, where the police state is flourishing.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:10 AM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


Good thread!

This is a failed argument popularized by those who want to take your privacy away, any average joe who believes this kind of idealogy is a sheeple who doesnt realize the ramifactions of us losing our privacy.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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I'm not saying that I support national ID cards, DNA databases, etc.... and I'm not saying that I oppose those. For the sake of this argument, I will remain neutral.

What I really want to comment on is the bogus argument being made in this thread. There is a huge difference between a national ID card, and having cameras filming you and your loved ones in the flesh, going to the bathroom, engaging in romantic activities, etc. It's absurd to compare the two. Having an ID card is one thing... having a room full of government employees watching me and my wife engage in reproductive activities is an entirely different thing.

There is a limit to everything. Just because some people support certain security measures does not mean that they must support ANY and ALL security measures you propose.

I could turn the argument around on those who oppose such government measures. I could say that if you are against an invasion of your privacy and being recorded on video and whatnot, then why don't you support the mandatory wearing of Mexican Luchador professional wrestling masks by everyone? Better yet, why don't you support legislation that requires no proof of identification when obtaining a drivers license? Or why don't you support the abolition of the entire government and the establishment of complete anarchy? Now can you see how absurd this argument is?

"All or nothing" arguments like this are rediculous.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by Rasputin13
 


You let them have one thing and they will do it anything. If you hear of anyone going through this, do not laugh, as your family may have to go through it one day.

CCTV is a fact, in todays society in the home. The gullible public, loved watching big brother, and they find anyone being perved on is funny, as long as its not them.

Of course id cards are not that bad, but it what it leads to, and how it can be abused, but heck we are long past worrying about, just id cards. You guys should worry about the sacred place that is your mind, in todays world, lol.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 08:05 AM
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I broadly agree with this sentiment, although there is a clear cut line between private space (your home) and public space (everywhere else).

Monitoring public spaces is acceptible in my opinion, and a valid deterrent to crime.

Obviously CCTV in houses would be an unacceptable proposition.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 08:24 AM
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Well they sort of can,,,,By helicopter and other unmanned air craft in use today.

Maybe satellite as well,,, who knows,,, but its a good bet they can.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by MinMin
 


You would have to be important to them, for them to watch you by satelitte, lol. But i would guess many believe they can do that today.

Just remember that line, "if you done nothing wrong, whats the problem". That line is bull, and the people doing the spying on people, should have there lifes invaded to see, how it feels.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:01 PM
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Reply to Rasputin13.
_____________________________________________________________

Is it though?

I mean they already have thermal imaging flyovers. cameras going up all over the place they can look at everything you do electronically, they can listen to your phone calls they can read your texts, they can basically watch you without actually watching, so why is it so far fetched to say that they would put a camera up in every new model home.

Maybe it will be something like a homeowners association rule, to help prevent robberies and keep crime in the community down, or something to that extent. It isnt far fetched and they would do it if they could they dont care about us they dont care that we have feelings, they WANT TO CONTROL US.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by caballero]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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I find the OP farcical. Look, the driver license most people use, is a de facto national ID but it does have a few shortcomings. I really fail to see how a national ID card infringes on any of my rights, which I happen to value, by the way. If anything, it will help to crack down in illegal immigration and crime, which would be a good thing.

The author of the OP uses a logical fallacy by resorting to Reductio ar Absurdum, namely suggesting planting CCTV cameras in the bathroom (reference to scatology) and in the bedroom (voyerism, anyone). Well, that's just that, a farce.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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It is a fear based defence mechanism. Has worked for thousands of centuries, keeps you disassociated from what is happening, makes it have nothing to do with you personally. Can be expected as things get worse.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


I dont know about that, but I feel violated by the DMV, they made me switch my plates this time to the ones with the little chip. Now if they are looking for me, I cannot run with my vehicle. Bummer huh?

Oh and also. I cannot drive with my headlights out either and that really irkes me...When did that change and why is it now the accepted norm?

[edit on 29-9-2008 by antar]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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yea.. 'nothing to hide' isn't the issue... look at this whole privacy 'subject' in the light of ... you personal (snail) mailbox at home.


and here's my argument.. to those that try and hold up the 'nothing to hide' theory.. then I guess you don't mind if I go to your house EVERY day and rifle/open your mail .. would you?


Yea.. it's like.. that...






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