The Pain Barrier

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to know what everyones thoughts are regarding the pain barrier i.e. a persons ability to withstand and potentially ignore amounts of pain without letting it stop them achieving their goal (survival?)

Obviously this is quite closely linked to the survival mindset and the motivation/will to survive but I was wondering do you guys have any specific techniques on how to overcome pain?

Have you heard of any tips/tricks/techniques, maybe something thats taught to members of the armed forces?

I suppose its all down to strength of mind and character at the end of the day, however I'v heard people say things like completely focusing on something else other than the pain, I'v heard people say the complete opposite and they used the pain to drive them on.

Also heard simple things such as repeating their favourite song other and other in their head helped do the trick.

Was wondering what you all thought?

Are you talking about pain in association with physical excercise or pain in association with a medical/physical condition? There is a difference.

Pain associated with physical excercise subsides and stops when the excercise stops, whereas pain associated with a medical/physical condition can be divided into 2 types - Acute pain or chronic pain. Acute being sharp but short-lived pain and chronic usually being dull (sharp at times) but long term pain.

Pain is very hard to measure as everyone has their own idea as to what level it is. Everyones 'pain threshold' is different. There are several scales that can be used, but they are not an accurate assessment of pain.

Pain can be overcome on a short-term basis by your bodys built-in ''flight or fight'' mechanism. This produces large but short-lived amounts of Adrenaline. Normally enough to get you away from the danger. I have seen trauma patients 'as high as a kite'' on their own Adrenaline.

I can remember my instructors once saying, ''Its mind over matter'' ....... ''We dont mind and you dont matter''.

[edit on 28/9/08 by Wotan]

reply to post by Death_Kron


The two methods i've used over the years is to either:

Make yourself hyperventilate, inhaling long and deep at a steady rate through the nose and fully exhaling through the mouth as soon as you feel you can no longer draw in more air

This works a treat for creating a peaceful 'spaced' endorphin-state for such things as dental proceedures

The other, more immediate method is to exhale sharply whilst, say, pulling a rusted nail out of your foot

for some reason, the sensation of pain is lessened on an 'exhale' than on an 'inhale'

Originally posted by Wotan
Are you talking about pain in association with physical excercise or pain in association with a medical/physical condition? There is a difference.

Pain associated with physical excercise subsides and stops when the excercise stops, whereas pain associated with a medical/physical condition can be divided into 2 types - Acute pain or chronic pain. Acute being sharp but short-lived pain and chronic usually being dull (sharp at times) but long term pain.

Pain is very hard to measure as everyone has their own idea as to what level it is. Everyones 'pain threshold' is different. There are several scales that can be used, but they are not an accurate assessment of pain.

Pain can be overcome on a short-term basis by your bodys built-in ''flight or fight'' mechanism. This produces large but short-lived amounts of Adrenaline. Normally enough to get you away from the danger. I have seen trauma patients 'as high as a kite'' on their own Adrenaline.

I can remember my instructors once saying, ''Its mind over matter'' ....... ''We dont mind and you dont matter''.

[edit on 28/9/08 by Wotan]

I'm talking about pain associated with a survival situation for example the pain Chris Ryan must have felt on his lone trek after the failed Bravo Two Zero mission.

What I'm trying to say is how do you deal with pain in a life or death survival situation? i.e. walking with a broken leg for example behind enemy lines, or enduring the pain of a violent assault when martial law comes into play, but you still need to "overcome" the pain to arrive at your destination, be in cache site, friends house or other...

What techniques does one adopt to overcome physical pain that they have encountered in a survival situation? Are there any things that people do to help lessen the pain?

You could liken it to a marathon runner I suppose in the case of exercise, what theyre doing hurts but they manage to pass through it, how would you deal with pain in a survival scenario ?

Originally posted by citizen smith
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

The two methods i've used over the years is to either:

Make yourself hyperventilate, inhaling long and deep at a steady rate through the nose and fully exhaling through the mouth as soon as you feel you can no longer draw in more air

This works a treat for creating a peaceful 'spaced' endorphin-state for such things as dental proceedures

The other, more immediate method is to exhale sharply whilst, say, pulling a rusted nail out of your foot

for some reason, the sensation of pain is lessened on an 'exhale' than on an 'inhale'

I understand what you have mentioned really well as I have experienced it myself. As you said for some reason, when exhaling pain seems to be lessened however I'm unsure as to the medical reason why.

I know when lifting weights its easier when you exhale to perform the rep than when inhaling, quite strange

Maybe something to do with oxygen levels, could anyone enlighten us?

I was in the forces and while there wasn't a 'set' doctrine on this I did notice some quasi 'tricks and methods'. The physcological effects and outdoor mentality combined with a higher degree of fitness is one method.
General fitness improvements means an increased threshold for pain.
Longdistance running / marching is easier in a fairly tight formation/group than solo. However, on broken ground keeping in a good formation is tricky for those unused to it. Even so a spread out group usually means the a better pace is set.
The reasons for this are legion; more people together means the people behind are sheltered a bit by the slipstream effect on the move.
Unless the group is a bunch of good-for-nothing layabouts you tend to find that no-one wants to let the group down by lagging behind and dwaddling.
Pain tolerance is a funny one, every person has a pain threshold BUT this also fluctuates.
If adrenaline is pumping and you're in the fight wounds and strains will barely be noticeable (typically).
It serves as fight or flight, so if you need to get the hell out of, or the hell into a situation you can do so with even crippling wounds.
An example is in the film Hamburger Hill where a shell explodes near to the radio man wearing a torch. He's still manning the radio immediately afterwards not noticing a thing until his buddy points out that he's had his arm blown off.
A spec ops dude (SAS retired) mentioned when interviewed that although they wore heavy body armour when they stormed the Iranian Embassy they hardly noticed it due to the adrenaline that was coursing through them. In his words 'It was like wearing a T Shirt'.
Alcohol is another cheap and legal method for raising how much pain you can take.


[edit on 28-9-2008 by WatchRider]

[edit on 28-9-2008 by WatchRider]

A technique I learned for dealing with pain is, rather than struggle to "get away from" the pain, open up to it. FEEL it as fully as one can.

What I discovered with this technique is that very shortly after embracing the pain, it no longer hurts. Very weird, it is.

I believe it is a Buddhist technique... Could be wrong on that.

I always thought the objective of survivalism was to be trained, equipped and prepared to a point that you dont end up suffering pain ?

any silly sausage can rough it in a wood at night, getting eaten alive by mossies, sleeping on rocks, eating cold beans etc, but the objective is not to play SAS soldier wearing only a bin liner. But to use your brain to plan and equip yourself so you have the skills and knowledge to survive comfortably?

Mind you, what ever turn you on ?

reply to post by Amaterasu



I agree. Physical pain is nothing to me, as above.

Mental pain is the problem.

Conditioning yourself for the unknown is one way, but like Wotan said, adrenalin will take care of the fight or flight situation for you.

Don't worry about it, the human body is pretty tough when it needs to be.

I'm with NR on this one, there is no way 'embracing the pain' is my thing or idea of overcoming pain.
It almost makes it into some quasi S and M fetish!

Keep clear of the pain!

Originally posted by Amaterasu
A technique I learned for dealing with pain is, rather than struggle to "get away from" the pain, open up to it. FEEL it as fully as one can.

What I discovered with this technique is that very shortly after embracing the pain, it no longer hurts. Very weird, it is.

I believe it is a Buddhist technique... Could be wrong on that.

I agree, one comes to a point when you can embrace rather than reject the pain your suffering and its almost as if it becomes a part of you but a part that no longer hurts, its just "there" but stops affecting oneself.

As you said, feel the pain use it as a motivating factor something to push you forward.

Personally, I tend to get angry when I feel pain either physical or mental and I do use it as as something to push me on, depends on your mindset I think really.

Originally posted by Northern Raider
I always thought the objective of survivalism was to be trained, equipped and prepared to a point that you dont end up suffering pain ?

any silly sausage can rough it in a wood at night, getting eaten alive by mossies, sleeping on rocks, eating cold beans etc, but the objective is not to play SAS soldier wearing only a bin liner. But to use your brain to plan and equip yourself so you have the skills and knowledge to survive comfortably?

Mind you, what ever turn you on ?

Your completely right, however I'm talking about dealing with physical pain either through injury or if you've been attacked, how do you deal with that?

I know alot of people who would drop and give up at the first hurdle as soon as they get hurt, they might be able to give it but can they take it?

Originally posted by Fillet ask a
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

I agree. Physical pain is nothing to me, as above.

Mental pain is the problem.

Conditioning yourself for the unknown is one way, but like Wotan said, adrenalin will take care of the fight or flight situation for you.

Don't worry about it, the human body is pretty tough when it needs to be.

As you said the human body is pretty tough when it wants to be and it can withstand alot more than what most people believe, interesting point to note fair enough maybe physical pain doesnt hurt you in comparison to mental pain...

I used to say the exact same thing, but sometimes it can hurt mentally knowing your hurt physically, if you understand me ?

reply to post by Death_Kron


I'm not sure I understand.

Do you mean, for example, if one suffered multiple fractures & couldn't protect ones loved ones, then the mental pain of not being able to help would far out weigh any physical pain?

If so then yes, I agree with that.

I still think we're pretty well equipped to take care of ourselves & others if we need to. The natural adrenalin kind of takes care of it, within reason I guess.

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by Northern Raider
I always thought the objective of survivalism was to be trained, equipped and prepared to a point that you dont end up suffering pain ?

any silly sausage can rough it in a wood at night, getting eaten alive by mossies, sleeping on rocks, eating cold beans etc, but the objective is not to play SAS soldier wearing only a bin liner. But to use your brain to plan and equip yourself so you have the skills and knowledge to survive comfortably?

Mind you, what ever turn you on ?

Your completely right, however I'm talking about dealing with physical pain either through injury or if you've been attacked, how do you deal with that?

I know alot of people who would drop and give up at the first hurdle as soon as they get hurt, they might be able to give it but can they take it?

if your an individual struggling to survive attack or injury it depends on your state on mind at the time, If you are a family guy and your wife and kids are at risk the question should be irrelivent, you should be willing to endure anything to protect your family ( My feelings anyhoo :@@

reply to post by Fillet ask a


No, I'm talking about how demoralizing it can be mentally to know that you have sustained an injury that could possibly reduce your chances of survival.

People seem to be misinterpreting as to what I'm getting at here so I'll give an example:

Imagine you was stranded in the middle of the desert, you needed to tab 100Km to safety, as your walking down a wadi you trip and break a leg, how would you deal with the pain of the broken limb in regards to your survival?

What things/tips/tricks would you do to overcome the pain and arrive at your destination? Knowing that otherwise you would die ?

reply to post by Death_Kron


Hmm, I see what you mean now.

I don't know, I'm afraid.

I'm not qualified to answer that question competently.

I'd like to say it would be a case of mind over matter, but I'd recommend reading one of Ray Mears books on survival before listening to myself or others online!

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Hmm, as a nurse in Trauma & Orthopeadics I would say it would depend on the fracture ....... certain leg fractures would make it virtually impossible to tab 10km let alone 100km. Then again, I have seen someone with a fractured neck of femur walk 20m with no signs of pain.

With pain also, it can depend on where and what type of pain you are suffering from. Fracture pain tends to dull down after a while unless the person moves. Two of the worst kinds of pain areas are from earache and tooth abscesses - these can be very dibilitating and can cause you to not think straight. Both of these are extremely painful, sometimes more so than a fracture.

It is very hard to gauge how one would react against pain. It would depend on the type and where it is. I recently have had a fractured shoulder and a tooth abscess ...... personally, I would prefer the shoulder fracture over the tooth abscess.

Good questions and responses. For myself, I think many times pushing through pains have been a function of having experienced similar injuries previously, and knowing that they are survivable.

I'll give you an example: Three times in my life I have been kicked in the testicles ( I KNOW, huh? MIssion #1 - avoid that).... It FEELS life-threatening, even though you know intellectually that it is probably not immediately so. The third time, I was under attack by three young men..... I knew it was survivable, plus I was battling for what could have been my own continued existance, so I was able to push through the sensation of extreme pain and protect myself.

I agree with WatchRider & Wotan in that much of non-chronic pain can shut a person down psychologically. It's related to what you are familiar with. My Bride has a much higher pain threshhold than I do, as she has suffered chronic pain in four of her joints for more than 20 years. I don't get frightened over external injuries, as I have had MANY, some severe, and I know for themost part how to deal with them. Internal pains scare me.

I learned some techniques in gathering energies while becoming acquainted with the motions of Tai Chi Chuan. I know, I know, it sounds like wingnut fodder....... the truth is it doesn't matter to me if it is self-created or external or a combination of both...... if I need more strength or need to resist, I can dig deeper. I suspect we all can do this, it's just a matter of what your own personal triggers or methods of invoking it are.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
A technique I learned for dealing with pain is, rather than struggle to "get away from" the pain, open up to it. FEEL it as fully as one can.

What I discovered with this technique is that very shortly after embracing the pain, it no longer hurts. Very weird, it is.

I believe it is a Buddhist technique... Could be wrong on that.

It's a long-standing childbirthing technique

And it does work.

In any situation, the pain gets worse when the body and the mind tense up against it rather than just let it come.