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Islam: What the West needs to know.

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posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 08:08 PM
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After reading this thread, it just makes me all the more relieved that I left the Christian Church many years ago (in fact gave up religions all together). I was a Christian for over 40 years and mostly witnessed hatred and condemnation of others (just as I am seeing here).

Make no mistake about it, the Christians have ever bit as much of a jihad going on as the Muslims - and they will also stop at no end to achieve it (history bears me out on this point). I am so glad to be done with religions!


Good riddance and you religious folks just have fun with all of your "holy wars."


[edit on 28-9-2008 by whatsup]




posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by harrytuttle
 

I am not an Atheist...I am a true believer. In what, you ask?

Well, of course, I believe in whichever truth strikes me as true at the present time!

Such as ???!! You say!

Well at the moment I was born and raised in an country of Islam so of course I truly believe in the power of Islam. Praise the name Of Allah.

At the moment ??? Say What???

Yes, for a few just a few lifetimes ago I was a Christian..having been brought up as a Pagan but the powers that be convinced me of the validity of Jesus Christ so I converted.

Now that is just crazy…so you believe that you were reincarnated then..is not that a wrong belief in Islam.

Yes , it is, Islam taught me to read, so when I was on business in Pakistan I had a conversation with a man from India who is a Muslim, and he was telling me the the beliefs of the Infidels in India…and of the lies that the doctors of India put forth to indoctrinate their society with stories of reincarnation…and the lie of reincarnation struck me with some interest as I remember my past life as a Christian….so I read some books written in favour of reincarnation so it strikes me as true….

Wait..wait…You remember your past life??!!

Yes..and as I read the Koran it said…and it seems quite clear: "And you were dead, and He brought you back to life. And He shall cause you to die, and shall bring you back to life, and in the end shall gather you unto Himself." (2:28).

So nooow you are saying the Koran supports reincarnation…that is wrong!

Well , you must admit..that it could be read that way.

Well …yes it might be read that way.

So, that proves that I believe that, which seems right to me at the time, that... is what I believe.

If I believed it to be wrong I would not believe it!

Yeah..whatever turns your crank replied the friend.

(Actually I do not believe in anything I just wrote at this moment)




posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by ShooterSix
Ahh yes, Islam, the religion of peace. Let's take a quick look at some of things their great prophet Muhammad did, or advocates.

1. Have sex with nine year old girls

2. Advocate beheadings

3. Require women to cover their faces

4. Approve prostitution

5. Recommends wife beatings

6. Hits his own wife

7. Advocate suicide attacks

8. Beat children who don't pray

9. Behead boys as young as 13

10. Approves sex with minors

11. Kill those who insult him (Muhammad)

12. Keep women as sex slaves

13. (my personal favorite) Encourage the rape of women in front of their husbands

Whoo!

Wherever Muslims are, there is mass murder, rape, terror, pillagings, and demand after demand.

They come here, and expect us to bend to their religion, and expect us to change OUR way of life. Yet, if we went to oh I don't know... say Saudi Arabia, or Iran, and made demands to meet Christian ideas, or tried to preach our religion, we would be hung, perhaps publicly.

They still base their life in the 7th century, so what else are you to expect besides barbarism?

Don't give me the whole oh not all Muslims are bad, etc etc. I know this, but a MASSIVE amount are pure insane, hundreds of millions of them would advocate your Christian, Jewish, Hindu head to be lopped off.

I advise you all to check out the truth about Islam

Don't be fooled.

Excuse spelling, no time to check.


1. Yea def. a common thing in the west. Teachers and fathers here do it all the time. (also has nothing to do with the Qur'an)

2. When a robber comes to your house and kills your loved ones infront of you, I wonder what you'll do to him... Then again the Ten Commandments only tell you the Past and Present situation. "thou shall not kill", but when thou kill someone wat thou do to thou who killed someone?? Life in prison = torture or death as a punishment u decide.

3. Learn to read kid, no where does it say you have to cover your face. Cover the curves on ur body to hide your shape, yes. Dress appropriate so that the Male does not get tempted to RAPE, yes.

4. No clue where you got that from but keep trying,
.

5. Advocate suicide attacks?? Suicide is the biggest sin you can commit when it comes to islam. HOW... the HECK... does islam advocate suicide attacks??!! anyways lets move on.

6. Physical discipline is recommended for a MALE child (and that doesnt mean beat your child till he gets bruised up and bleeds to death), but you cannot hit a female child. Just look at the late night clubbers, the alcoholics, and the druggies. They give a crap bout praying or keeping a peaceful state of mind.

Well the rest of the crap you wrote are just rediculous, I wont even comment on those. The ONLY thing you mentioned that IS directly from the Qur'an is the beating of the wifey. I for one would never do such a thing. But keep in mind, you are not allowed to randomly beat your wife. There are many restrictions. You see, the ONLY time you can beat your wife is when it comes to praying and worshipping the lord they call Allah. Even then beating is a last resort.

One last thing I would like to point out before you post such foolish things again. The most raping occurs where?? The most child molesting occurs where?? The most alcoholics where?? The most killing and invading of innocent people who?? Right on!! you guessed it!! based on statistics and our own media. THE WEST!!

Please, stop making us real americans who stand for "the people" and "in god we trust" look bad with your posts. Liberty and justice for all!! Have a nice day...



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by Lookdeeper
 


Hello,

I'd like to point out that you're dead wrong.

You said number one had nothing to do with the Quran, and it happens all the time here in the west. Well the differance is, Muhammad, their/your prophet had sex with a nine year old girl, while Jesus would never do such a thing. So your prophet named in your Quran having sex with children has nothing to do with the Quran? Strange!

You told me to learn to read for number three, about women covering their faces. That's strange, I think you check Sura 33:59, and my favorite, Sura 24:31 which states: "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.

So maybe you sir, should learn to read.

You said that suicide is against Islam, I agree, the term I should have used then is Martyrdom. Now perhaps you see what I saying? Suicide attacks are quite a daily occurance in the Middle East, and elsewhere where Muslims are present.

The other crap I wrote that was just rediculous I have versus from the Quran and Hadith to back them up if you would like.


Excuse my English



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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lawl, just read about the one that said muslim women dont have souls and arent considered humans. OMG OMG its right there when u open the qur'an. In plain text!! You sure you reading the Qur'an or just enjoying a playboy magazine...

INCREASE THE PEACE PEOPLE!!

The fact is, the Qur'an does not go by a 3rd party humans perspective (humans tend to forget things). Such as the Bible or many other religous scriptures. One says Jesus (pbuh) said "blah blah blah" another says wait no Jesus (pbuh) said "blah blah, blue." I see... so thas what Jesus was talking about... You see, in the Qur'an its the supreme being talking directly to the reader. Infact, when the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) first talked to the angel who brang the message of Allah. The angel told him "Ikra." "I cannot read" the prophet replied. Angel said again, "Ikra." "Im sorry I do not know how to read" again said the prohpet. Finally the angel said "Ikra," and then recited a verse that is in the Qur'an. So the prophet realized the angel was telling him to REPEAT and not READ (ikra means different things in the arabic language). Anyways the point is, when you open the Qur'an and read about this story. You only read what the Angel said to the prophet and not what the prophet replied to the angel. No 3rd party there to make any mistakes. Btw, believe it or not, the Qur'an HARDLY and I mean rarely talks about the last prophet or his life.

Can't believe I just typed that big wall of text. W/e just helping people understand one anothers point of view better
. Peace!



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by Lookdeeper
lawl, just read about the one that said muslim women dont have souls and arent considered humans. OMG OMG its right there when u open the qur'an. In plain text!! You sure you reading the Qur'an or just enjoying a playboy magazine...

INCREASE THE PEACE PEOPLE!!

The fact is, the Qur'an does not go by a 3rd party humans perspective (humans tend to forget things). Such as the Bible or many other religous scriptures. One says Jesus (pbuh) said "blah blah blah" another says wait no Jesus (pbuh) said "blah blah, blue." I see... so thas what Jesus was talking about... You see, in the Qur'an its the supreme being talking directly to the reader. Infact, when the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) first talked to the angel who brang the message of Allah. The angel told him "Ikra." "I cannot read" the prophet replied. Angel said again, "Ikra." "Im sorry I do not know how to read" again said the prohpet. Finally the angel said "Ikra," and then recited a verse that is in the Qur'an. So the prophet realized the angel was telling him to REPEAT and not READ (ikra means different things in the arabic language). Anyways the point is, when you open the Qur'an and read about this story. You only read what the Angel said to the prophet and not what the prophet replied to the angel. No 3rd party there to make any mistakes. Btw, believe it or not, the Qur'an HARDLY and I mean rarely talks about the last prophet or his life.

Can't believe I just typed that big wall of text. W/e just helping people understand one anothers point of view better
. Peace!


Hello sir,

Can you please then confirm I'm wrong? You quoted my whole post, and said basically it was hogwash, I replied to you, and saw you posted without a reply to what I said.

Thanks!



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by ShooterSix
reply to post by Lookdeeper
 


Hello,

I'd like to point out that you're dead wrong.

You said number one had nothing to do with the Quran, and it happens all the time here in the west. Well the differance is, Muhammad, their/your prophet had sex with a nine year old girl, while Jesus would never do such a thing. So your prophet named in your Quran having sex with children has nothing to do with the Quran? Strange!

You told me to learn to read for number three, about women covering their faces. That's strange, I think you check Sura 33:59, and my favorite, Sura 24:31 which states: "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.

So maybe you sir, should learn to read.

You said that suicide is against Islam, I agree, the term I should have used then is Martyrdom. Now perhaps you see what I saying? Suicide attacks are quite a daily occurance in the Middle East, and elsewhere where Muslims are present.

The other crap I wrote that was just rediculous I have versus from the Quran and Hadith to back them up if you would like.


Excuse my English


"And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms" Yea cover ur face right there look!! Cast down their "looks"... that means to look down?? and Which of the many "Hadiths" about the 9 year old girl are you talking about? In one shes 14, in another shes 9 heck in another shes 16... On top of all that he refused to marry her the first time because he told Aby Bakr she was too young. It was the 2nd proposal he accepted. And even after that he was engaged for 2 more years... on top of all that it was from a Hadith. Suicide bombings are common just like all the other things that are common in the west. But its not their religion that makes them do it is it now?? "Now perhaps you see what I saying?"



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by Atharee
Ironically the Jews were being judged according to their own law! The very thing that the author of this post is trying to call brutal and unfair is actually the law that is found in his own Bible:

Deuteronomy 20:10-12

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies

This argument keeps going in circles!
These are stories in the Bible! Not teachings or law or any sort of guidelines, just stories! So stop quoting stories! We live by law set forth by us the people, democracy and judicial law. Whereas Muslims live by Sharia law which is not modern but centuries old and still barbaric by any standards. The removing of limbs if you steal, being stoned to death if you have an affair, being hung if your a Homosexual or a young teenage girl being molested by a married man. I ask you wheres the peace and tolerance there?



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 01:01 AM
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When a MALE gets out on bail and has been holding his sexual urge for a FEMALE for years. Here comes a girl all ready to hit the club late at night in her mini tight skirt. Whats that broke brother going to do to that little girl? When he see's a sister who he really cant make out the figure, I DOUBT he'll get tempted to rape her eh?



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by Lookdeeper
 


Hello sir


I have to disagree with you on suicide bombings being "common" in the West. Who are you trying to fool? Sure, there might be a few in the past 100 years, but c'mon now... your kinda stretching it here. I'm sure there have been more suicide bombings in the past two months in Muslim areas than the West has had in 100 years.

How do you feel on Muhammad personally beheading hundreds of infidels? Was he just? Is he a good example for people to follow?

Thanks!

Excuse my English



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 01:06 AM
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Edit: Sorry not relevant to original post.

[edit on 29/9/2008 by MarkAkaSilent]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 03:45 AM
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Personally I feel he is the best example for me to follow. Let me give you a hypothetical situation:

Suppose you are a military commander fighting against "infidels". These infidels have murdered your citizens, raped your women and pillaged your lands. There are more groups of infidels ready to pounce on you even if you win this battle. In your opinion, what is the best way to deal with these infidels who have no morals and no values?



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:17 AM
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reply to post by ShooterSix
 


I am a new member so please let me know if I break any rules. Thanks.

I think his example is the best example to follow. Let me pose a hypothetical situation. You are a military commander. You have some prisoners of war who have commited crimes against your own people. What do you think would be the best course of action?

I also recommend that instead of misquoting facts, you should analyze the context and all the relevant information. Look at situations objectively rather than imposing your own bias upon yourself and others. Thankyou.


Prisoners of war constituted a problem awaiting resolution because it was a new phenomenon in the history of Islaam. The Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam consulted Abu Bakr and Umar bin Al-Khattab as to what he should do with the prisoners. Abu Bakr suggested that he should ransom them, explaining this by saying: "They are after all our relatives, and this money would give us strength against the disbelievers, moreover, Allaah could guide them to Islaam." Umar advised killing them, saying, "They are the leaders of Kufr (disbelief)." The Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam preferred Abu Bakr's suggestion to that of Umar's. The following day, Umar called on the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam and Abu Bakr to see them weeping. He showed extreme astonishment and inquired about the situation so that he might weep if it was worth weeping for, or else he would feign weeping. "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allaah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wise. Were it not a previous ordainment from Allaah, a severe torment would have touched you for what you took." [Qur'aan 8:67-68] The previous Divine ordainment went as follows, "Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom) or ransom." [Qur'aan 47:4] Which included an area providing permission to take ransom, that is why no penalty was imposed. They were rebuked only for taking prisoners before subduing all the land of disbelief. Apart from this, the polytheists taken to Madinah were not only prisoners of war but rather archcriminals of war whom modern war penal law brings to justice to receive their due sentence of death or prison for life.


www.sunnahonline.com...



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:48 AM
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The hate-mongering in this thread makes me cry.


ALL religion is NECESSARILY evil.
YOU do not need to listen to them. THINK AND BELIEVE FOR YOURSELF. DO NOT BELIEVE A SILLY BOOK.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by MarkAkaSilent
 


I was replying to the original poster who pulled a "Fox News" type of journalism. Do not Jews follow the Law of the Bible today? As far as your modern democracy it is working out so well for you. Your top 1% owns everything and your elected president is about to rob you for 700 billion to give more money to the elite. Never mind the billions going towards the "war on terror" which ends up in the hands of corporations. Even if your not American, is not America the leader and example of the "free world?"

If you are an atheist, then religious legislation would not apply but my response is to the Christian who originally posted this. So, if you are a Christian then you have gone against your own book:

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach Matthew 23:1-2

Jesus may have never killed anyone, but he never condemned any part of the revelation before him. He only criticized those who did not practice what they preached.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by Lookdeeper
When a MALE gets out on bail and has been holding his sexual urge for a FEMALE for years. Here comes a girl all ready to hit the club late at night in her mini tight skirt. Whats that broke brother going to do to that little girl? When he see's a sister who he really cant make out the figure, I DOUBT he'll get tempted to rape her eh?


What? This sounds like you're saying Islam justifies rape if the woman is not covered properly. And considering it's the woman who gets stoned to death for adultery and not the man, this whole "anti-woman" thing is very offensive my modern, 21st century mind.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by ShooterSix
reply to post by Lookdeeper
 




You said number one had nothing to do with the Quran...


Actually, it is not in the Quran, it is in the Hadeeth texts. Most of you copy and paste rhetoric from Christian sites and don't really know what you're talking about. Everyone uses this type of argument: "Muhammad did this! Jesus never did that!" But the problem is that the Bible is filled with stories of righteous killing for God's sake, and Jesus never condemned any part of the bible according to the gospel, only those who did not practice what they preached.

Just a few points: suicide missions are not martyrdom but is in fact suicide which is a major sin in Islam. An extremist sect amongst the Muslims know as the Khawarij are mostly responsible for the "Islamic Terrorism" that exists, through distorted understanding of the religious texts and straying from the understanding of the early Muslims. As a matter of fact, the Prophet Muhammad foretold of them and warned the Muslims about them. al-Qaidah, Hamas and other "sunni" terrorist groups fall into the category of Khawarij and all of these modern day groups take their ideology from a philosopher named Sayyid Qutb who was not inspired by the texts of Quran and Hadeeth, but by western revolutionist philosophers.

In a National Review article, journalist David F. Forte accurately describes the link between contemporary radical movements within the Muslim world and the writings of Sayyid Qutb:

"In other writings, I have asserted that this form of extremism has been inspired by the writings of influential modernist radicals, such as Sayyid Qutb of Egypt, who believe that virtually all Islam is in a state of unbelief and needs to be reconquered. Thus, in its modern form, Bin Laden's kind of extremism has much more in common with Stalin, Hitler, and Mao than it does with Islamic tradition. Like those state terrorists, Bin Laden is at war with his own people. And finally, I have boldly asserted that Bin Laden and his extremists are evil, pure and simple, and Islam is not."

As for the marriage of Aisha, like it or not, the marriage was not consummated until she reached puberty. Aisha went on to become one of the most, if not most, major sources for Islam as a narrator of Hadeeth, with intimate details that no friend or companion could narrate. She is highly regarded and respected as the mother of the believers. Due to her age she aided the religion of Islam after the Prophet died. Her character is an example to be followed, her life with her husband is full of beautiful examples of a husband and wife. One other thing to consider is this, out of all of the things that the Prophet Muhammad was criticized about from the Jews and pagans at that time, they did not use this issue of marriage to a young girl against him. Why? Because this was not an uncommon thing at that time. And besides, this is something that was restricted to him from the wisdom of the Creator which resulted in preserving the religion. Pick up any book of Hadeeth and you will commonly see "Narrated Aisha, that the Prophet said..."

I could see atheists having trouble with this issue, but Christians should be careful considering what exists in the Old Testament (the one that Jesus never condemned). Since we are in modern times, why don't Christians spend more time on the over obsessed and commonly deviant sexual practices of their priests, ministers and congregations. Go to Thailand and stop all those westerners from having sex with underage boys. America produces and watches the most violent movies like SAW which is in it's like 10th squeal? Toothpaste is sold by women in Bikinis, yet Muslim women cover like Mary and are attacked or labeled oppressed even though in some western countries women are coming to Islam more than men. Why? Because they have seen though the hippocracy.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by Atharee
reply to post by MarkAkaSilent
 


I was replying to the original poster who pulled a "Fox News" type of journalism. Do not Jews follow the Law of the Bible today? As far as your modern democracy it is working out so well for you. Your top 1% owns everything and your elected president is about to rob you for 700 billion to give more money to the elite. Never mind the billions going towards the "war on terror" which ends up in the hands of corporations. Even if your not American, is not America the leader and example of the "free world?"

If you are an atheist, then religious legislation would not apply but my response is to the Christian who originally posted this. So, if you are a Christian then you have gone against your own book:

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach Matthew 23:1-2

Jesus may have never killed anyone, but he never condemned any part of the revelation before him. He only criticized those who did not practice what they preached.

I give up, it seems like Im banging my head against a brick wall! I talk about how Islamic Law is brutal (beheading, stonings and removing of limbs) and you answer me back with my Government is robbing me! Let me tell you something, Id rather have them rob me that chop off my hands and feet for stealing a loaf of bread or stone my sister for having an affair with a married man or...... The list goes on.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by Matrix1111
What? This sounds like you're saying Islam justifies rape if the woman is not covered properly. And considering it's the woman who gets stoned to death for adultery and not the man, this whole "anti-woman" thing is very offensive my modern, 21st century mind.


I didn't post this, but I have to respond to Lookdeeper. Rape is not allowed in Islam, it would be considered a crime worse than fornication or adultery. However, men and women contribute to a corrupt society by conducting themselves in immoral manners. If food is left out, mice will come. Women's beauty is often exploited by men in the west, thus it has promoted criminal attacks upon women. Rape is an epidemic in America, a majority Christian nation.

A rapist is subjected to be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, depending on the severity of the attack.

Only women are stoned in adultery? You guys really don't want the truth do you? This is such a common lie, so much so I have to ask where is your proof? Let me break it down for you **SNIP** : In the Shariah, if a man or woman is married and has sex with other than their spouse it has to be proven by 4 reliable witnesses' or by confession. Then if proven, the punishment will occur. However, if the guilty flea punishment, than they are to be left alone and not pursued. They now have to deal with the consequences on the the day of Judgment.

Stoning is for adultery, lashes (not death) are for fornication - both men and women.

As far as I know, the people punished for this crime during the Prophet's life confessed and asked for it to expiate the sin. Even the Prophet tried to turn away from one of them 3 times but she persisted, and he commanded the people not to speak ill of her after she died and said she was destined for heaven due to her high faith.

There is no authentic report that singles out women only for stoning, men and women are equal in this regard.

LOOK FOR THE PROOF FIRST THEN ESTABLISH A BELIEF OR OPINION! NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

Admin Edit: removed unnecessary name calling

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 29-9-2008 by Crakeur]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by MarkAkaSilent
 



You are the original poster of this post right? You said you are a Christian right? So now that the proof is against you you are "banging your head against the wall" with me? If you attack Islam based on this incident, than you attack Moses and the other prophets for engaging the enemy in the same manner. As a Christian, you say Jesus is God so you are saying that Jesus was the same one who said:

Deuteronomy
Chapter 2, 32-37
And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us

Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

Deuteronomy 20:10-12
10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies

This is why I left Christianity, no foundations just make it up as you go: man made. Seems like I'm the one beating my head against the wall with you, you just don't see the contradictions of your own belief!
You are the original poster of this post right? You said you are a Christian right? So now that the proof is against you you are "banging your head against the wall" with me? If you attack Islam based on this incident, than you attack Moses and the other prophets for engaging the enemy in the same manner. As a Christian, you say Jesus is God so you are saying that Jesus was the same one who said:

Deuteronomy
Chapter 2, 32-37
And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us

Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

Deuteronomy 20:10-12
10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies

This is why I left Christianity, no foundations just make it up as you go: man made. Seems like I'm the one beating my head against the wall with you, you just don't see the contradictions of your own belief!


Admin Edit: fixed the quote box. It's far easier to use reply to when you want to respond to the entire post.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Crakeur]




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