Islam: What the West needs to know., page 1
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Topic started on 27-9-2008 @ 04:28 PM by MarkAkaSilent
I don't know where to start with this post but I hope you'll bare with me. I stumbled across this video on Google and as a Christian it made me sick to my stomach to think that this maybe going on underneath our noses and we don't have a clue its happening.

You were told just after 9/11(by Bush, Blair, Rice and many other leaders and politicians of the world) that Muslims are a peaceful people and the actions of a few extremists should not be blamed on Islam, but if you look close enough and read through many verses from the Koran you will see that its not a peaceful religion at all, in fact it promotes the use of "Jihad" against the non-believers or "infidels" as Christians and Jews are called. It promotes beheading as punishment for those who do not convert to Islam.

I myself believed for many years that they were peaceful and in many ways similar to us in belief's after I watched a movie called The Message (starring Anthony Quinn) in which its tells the story of the early days of The Prophet Muhammad. The movie shows how tolerant Muhammad was towards Christians and other faiths, but what it doesn't tell you is the story after his following became larger when he became a warlord and a dictator of sorts. He wiped out the three Jewish tribes of Saudi Arabia. The Jews were either exiled or beheaded and their land and property seized .

This is a passage taken from the book "The life of Muhammad" which reads.....

"Sahi Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 448
So Allah's Apostle went to them (i.e. Banu Quraiza) (i.e. besieged them). They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment (unconditionally after 25 days of fierce resistance) but he directed them to Sad (ally) to give his verdict concerning them. Sad said, "I give my judgment that their warriors should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed."

The Prophet said, "You have judged according to the King's (Allah's) judgment." (Hadith No. 447, Vol. 5)

The sentence was Death by decapitation for around 300—600 men and pubescent boys, and enslavement for the women and children. Ibn Ishaq says that the number may have been as high as 800—900 (p. 464).
The text of Sirat [Ibn Ishaq, page 464]:
Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, 'Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!' This went on until the apostle made an end of them."

Does this sound like a peaceful and tolerant man to you? I don't think so.

I have something else to throw into the mix here as well. Maybe the Western Governments know this posses a serious threat to the western world and this is why we are at war with Iraq and soon Iran and maybe everything from oil to nuclear bomb making facility's is just a rouse to hide the fact that their trying to keep Islam at bay. And another thing why are we trying to impose a democracy in Iraq when the Muslim Sharia Law is a religious law and therefore if Muslims embrace democracy aren't they denouncing the teaching of the Koran?

Please watch the video in the link I provided and make up you own mind. I have also included a few links to other items that maybe of interest.

Thank you.

video.google.com...#

Edit spelling mistake.

[edit on 27/9/2008 by MarkAkaSilent]


reply posted on 27-9-2008 @ 05:07 PM by SauberBMW
reply to post by MarkAkaSilent


umm like i said, there is no good translation of the quran. why don't you got to a mosque and research. then you'll learn but ignorant people try to find the fast way out


reply posted on 27-9-2008 @ 05:32 PM by dooper
No. I'm not doing this. You want to remain ignorant, or foolish and mistaken, that's fine with me.

I assume you know more than the men who were at Muhammed's side. I assume you know that parts of your Qur'an was written by Abdalla bin Sa'd, the only scribe with Muhammed, who intentionally wrote falsehoods, discovered that Allah had nothing to do with the teachings of Muhammed, and that Muhammed was a fraud, abandoned Islam, and died for it?

"Muhammed ordered that certain men should be assassinated even if they were found behind the curtains of the Ka'aba. Among them was Abdallah bin Sa'd.

[the only scribe of the Qu'ran who dropped Islam after Muhammed agreed on different occasions to allow bin Sa'd to change and add to the Qur'an as he wished, which to Sa'd, conclusively proved the Qur'an was not from God.]

The reason that he should be slain was because he had become a Muslim and used to write down the Qur'an Revelation. Then he apostatized."

Tabari BIII:178 / Ishaq:550

We next find out what happened to this man who knew the truth:

"Abdallah bin Sa'd fled to Uthman, his brother, who after hiding him, finally surrendered him to the Prophet. Uthman asked for clemency. Muhammed did not respond, remaining silent for a long time. Muhammed explained, 'By Allah, I kept silent so that one of you might go up to him and cut off his head!' One of the Ansar said, 'Why didn't you give me a sign?' Allah's Apostle replied, 'A prophet does not kill by pointing.'" Tabari VIII:179

Now you can claim I know nothing of Islam, and I could not care any less. The reason? If you'll believe what you've said so far, then the actual truth will mean nothing.

And that too, proves my point.


reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 05:54 AM by themuse
Hi Mark & all

I recommend you see the doco by Natgeo called aptly 'The Koran' before you make such a single minded judgement on the moslem people and the religion.
It explains how the diverse factions of the religion stem from the different interpretations or translations of The Koran across the world.
here the site for the doco

natgeotv.com.au...

The Koran has been modified for political purposes in many countries and hence has created different factions, ie the traditional head dress/burka varies HUGELY in Cario across the different factions of Islam - from the full net over the eyes/full body black sheet to just a headdress or not at all. Depending on the persons heritage the factions differ.

The doco shows how the Koran thats printed in Saudi, if i remember correctly, actually uses words like 'kill with missiles, tanks guns' or things to that effect in the holy text and is different from Korans printed elsewhere. All Koran versions were translated from 1 ancient text and the ancient arabic script has been translated incorrectly and 'guesstimated'.

I am not moslem or christian, however i grew up with heaps of moslem from christmas island, i was learning arabic when i was 9 with them and considered becoming moslem at that time - purely so i could hang out with my mates more as they were always at the mosque or learning scriptures!!

My take on why Islam has such 'strong and active influence' , so to speak, on its devotees as opposed to Christianity is because The Koran is actually more of a 'Way' or 'code' to live by, as opposed to the Bible which is more abiguous in its lessons on behaviour and personal responsibilty in the eyes of 'God' so to speak.

Anyone thats lives by a Way or ie a strict code will find their behaviour modified at every action and reaction they think or make. for example Samurai - Way of the Warrior, the basis of this code is the Virtue - Honour, Respect , Loyalty, Benevolence, Integrity, Justice, Truth. To Honour themselves and their Way is to live these Virtues.
This 'Way' internalises the responsibilty of all actions of the Samurai, making him/her responsible for his/her reactions.

The same can said of Followers of Islam. This is why the Fanatics are so err fanatical in their actions. The corrupt versions of The Koran they are instructed in compel them to be internally responsible for their Way.

If Ive not exlpained this clearly please let me know, i tried to simplify whats in my head...

Anyhow I can say the basis of The TRUE Koran is Love and if you read a 'good version, i found it a 'better read' or if i was so inclined, a more believable story than the bible. ---- I mean this loosely, im not trying to say the Bible/Christianity is any less or more valid than Islam or any religion. Anyone whose going to get upset - Please take that as figuratively speaking. Im not bagging Christianity or Islam or any religion.

I believe if your beliefs truely fulfill you in the way that mine fulfill me, then nothing is more beautiful. For what a belief system does to fill a soul is awesome.

I posted this reply as I feel key to us moving forward as beings on Earth and surviving we need to gain understanding between us.
We need to have less opinions and more perceptions. One persons opinion is one 'emotive' perception - that means there are many perceptions to every situation. Perception is Everything.
Also anyone who puts anothers way or person down in the name of the accusers being the better 'way' is hypocritical of who they say they are. A better way is not one built on judgement and misunderstanding and i urge people displaying this behaviour to redefine their honour.

Have the Best Day

*jumps off soapbox*

themuse


[edit on 28/9/2008 by themuse]
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