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Islam: What the West needs to know.

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posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:28 PM
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I don't know where to start with this post but I hope you'll bare with me. I stumbled across this video on Google and as a Christian it made me sick to my stomach to think that this maybe going on underneath our noses and we don't have a clue its happening.

You were told just after 9/11(by Bush, Blair, Rice and many other leaders and politicians of the world) that Muslims are a peaceful people and the actions of a few extremists should not be blamed on Islam, but if you look close enough and read through many verses from the Koran you will see that its not a peaceful religion at all, in fact it promotes the use of "Jihad" against the non-believers or "infidels" as Christians and Jews are called. It promotes beheading as punishment for those who do not convert to Islam.

I myself believed for many years that they were peaceful and in many ways similar to us in belief's after I watched a movie called The Message (starring Anthony Quinn) in which its tells the story of the early days of The Prophet Muhammad. The movie shows how tolerant Muhammad was towards Christians and other faiths, but what it doesn't tell you is the story after his following became larger when he became a warlord and a dictator of sorts. He wiped out the three Jewish tribes of Saudi Arabia. The Jews were either exiled or beheaded and their land and property seized .

This is a passage taken from the book "The life of Muhammad" which reads.....

"Sahi Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 448
So Allah's Apostle went to them (i.e. Banu Quraiza) (i.e. besieged them). They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment (unconditionally after 25 days of fierce resistance) but he directed them to Sad (ally) to give his verdict concerning them. Sad said, "I give my judgment that their warriors should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed."

The Prophet said, "You have judged according to the King's (Allah's) judgment." (Hadith No. 447, Vol. 5)

The sentence was Death by decapitation for around 300—600 men and pubescent boys, and enslavement for the women and children. Ibn Ishaq says that the number may have been as high as 800—900 (p. 464).
The text of Sirat [Ibn Ishaq, page 464]:
Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, 'Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!' This went on until the apostle made an end of them."

Does this sound like a peaceful and tolerant man to you? I don't think so.

I have something else to throw into the mix here as well. Maybe the Western Governments know this posses a serious threat to the western world and this is why we are at war with Iraq and soon Iran and maybe everything from oil to nuclear bomb making facility's is just a rouse to hide the fact that their trying to keep Islam at bay. And another thing why are we trying to impose a democracy in Iraq when the Muslim Sharia Law is a religious law and therefore if Muslims embrace democracy aren't they denouncing the teaching of the Koran?

Please watch the video in the link I provided and make up you own mind. I have also included a few links to other items that maybe of interest.

Thank you.

video.google.com...#

Edit spelling mistake.

[edit on 27/9/2008 by MarkAkaSilent]




posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:30 PM
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Here are some other links you might find interesting...

www.truthdig.com...
www.carm.org...
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:37 PM
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You don't know the half of it. I believer there is a website that you can Google called Prophet of Doom. This guy has done his homework, and you wouldn't believe the threats and vile feedback he has received from Muslims.

The thing is, he tells it like it is, and there is no reliance on one particular translation. He covers it all, all of the translations, and all of the Islamic writings.

The conclusion I came to a long time ago is that there are two types of Muslims. Those who are ignorant of the actual teachings of Islam who haven't been brought to full ripe by their teachers, and the others who would be more accurately describes as a murderous fanatic, or those who follow the letter of the religion. You'll note that the fanatics can quote Book, Chapter, and Verse. The apologists point to verses that were rescinded. The violent ninth Sura, according to Muslim scholars, was the last written and therefore supercedes previous, more tolerant scriptures.

Americans as a group are ignorant of Islamic teachings, and often rely on the statements put out by CAIR.

It is evil. And it's coming. Eventually. For everyone.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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Umm, newsflash... Christians are not exactly peaceful either. In fact, I bet more people has died in the name of Christianity over the years than any other religion.

This perceived difference between countries and religions only serve to create more conflicts in the world. Do you think its impossible to solve conflicts by other means than violence? If you think Islamic people are just animals that should be shot, then you have never been to the middle east yourself.

If you go by the media picture of the middle east, you would think everybody sits around in caves, shooting automatic weapons at the sky... its the dumbed down version I bet a lot of people get in their heads when thinking of the middle east.



[edit on 27-9-2008 by Copernicus]


+1 more 
posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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um being a fellow Muslim myself and having read the Quran and studied it..

The info you have is all wrong.

Islam means Peace or submission to god. And the quran doesn't teach violence or hatred. Gods hates the people who hate their neighbors. So please go to an actual muslim or Mosque and not watch videos you find on the Web.

Heck i can make a video showing how the bibles tells Christians to kill children and worship satan



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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Look, I don't want to start any religious argument. Yes, Christians have killed a lot of folks over the years. One big difference. They did it on their own, and not upon the directives of their prophet of their moon-god Allah.

And I've heard this apologists denial about the true nature of Islam from every angle. The story is the same, and if you'll go back and read what I wrote, I said there were two types of Muslims. If you think it's peaceful, then you don't know your history nor your religion. And I'm sorry. But it isn't my fault.

You must be honest, and read the multiple translations of the Qur'an, the multiple translations of the writings of Ishaq, Tabari, and Bukhari. Honestly review the Satanic Verses, and see the flip-flop Muhammed did, and how Islam's own writings clearly admit his words came from Satan. This is not a peaceful religion even though peaceful folks may be found within the religion.

Islam is the only religion in the world to preach the destruction of other religions until only Islam is followed throughout the entire world.

Christianity doesn't teach that. Nor any other religion.

And if someone wants to ignore the absolute truth to be found by personal research of actual writings, teachings, and examples, and not what some teacher tells them the words say, then that state of ignorance is on their head.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by Copernicus

Umm, newsflash... Christians are not exactly peaceful either. In fact, I bet more people has died in the name of Christianity over the years than any other religion.

This perceived difference between countries and religions only serve to create more conflicts in the world. Do you think its impossible to solve conflicts by other means than violence? If you think Islamic people are just animals that should be shot, then you have never been to the middle east yourself.

If you go by the media picture of the middle east, you would think everybody sits around in caves, shooting automatic weapons at the sky... its the dumbed down version I bet a lot of people get in their heads when thinking of the middle east.



[edit on 27-9-2008 by Copernicus]


Yes.. this maybe true about the churches crimes against its own people i.e Spanish inquisition and the like but if you look at history Christian conflict with Muslims has almost always been instigated by the Muslims themselves. Take The Crusades for instance. Christians were portrayed as the "bad guys" when they set of to claim the holy land. But as most historians will tell you the Muslims invaded and took Jerusalem from the Jews and Christians in the first place so...



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by SauberBMW
um being a fellow Muslim myself and having read the Quran and studied it..

The info you have is all wrong.

Islam means Peace or submission to god. And the quran doesn't teach violence or hatred. Gods hates the people who hate their neighbors. So please go to an actual muslim or Mosque and not watch videos you find on the Web.

Heck i can make a video showing how the bibles tells Christians to kill children and worship satan
Ive read the translated version of the Koran and any peaceful verse you come across are superseded by another non peaceful contradiction and Ive also read The Satanic Verses and that gives you all you need to know.



[edit on 27/9/2008 by MarkAkaSilent]



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by MarkAkaSilent
 


umm like i said, there is no good translation of the quran. why don't you got to a mosque and research. then you'll learn but ignorant people try to find the fast way out



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:07 PM
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Maybe you should actually read the Quran before passing judgment. I have and I'm not defending the violence and hate contained within it. I am however saying that the Christian Bible contains an equal amount of violence and hate which Christian-Americans have always avoided allowing into their anti-muslim conversations.

Murder, rape, incest, child abuse, torture, mutilation, genocide; all distributed equally between Islam and Christianity (and of course Judaism as well).

The only fair solution is clear; remove all public displays of religion



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:14 PM
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okay whatever, believe what you guys want to believe

im not going to argue cause its like talking to a wall, no matter how many times you tell it to move, it wont move.

all your guys research is based on the net but you won't go to an official source like a mosque but that's okay. Im not gonna force you guys nor preach you. it's up to you guys.

please don't tell me you know more than me please. I've studied Islam for 8 years so i know what i'm talking about



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by SauberBMW
okay whatever, believe what you guys want to believe

im not going to argue cause its like talking to a wall, no matter how many times you tell it to move, it wont move.

all your guys research is based on the net but you won't go to an official source like a mosque but that's okay. Im not gonna force you guys nor preach you. it's up to you guys.

please don't tell me you know more than me please. I've studied Islam for 8 years so i know what i'm talking about

So what your saying is...
"The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and a cry. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they understand nothing" (2:172).



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:32 PM
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No. I'm not doing this. You want to remain ignorant, or foolish and mistaken, that's fine with me.

I assume you know more than the men who were at Muhammed's side. I assume you know that parts of your Qur'an was written by Abdalla bin Sa'd, the only scribe with Muhammed, who intentionally wrote falsehoods, discovered that Allah had nothing to do with the teachings of Muhammed, and that Muhammed was a fraud, abandoned Islam, and died for it?

"Muhammed ordered that certain men should be assassinated even if they were found behind the curtains of the Ka'aba. Among them was Abdallah bin Sa'd.

[the only scribe of the Qu'ran who dropped Islam after Muhammed agreed on different occasions to allow bin Sa'd to change and add to the Qur'an as he wished, which to Sa'd, conclusively proved the Qur'an was not from God.]

The reason that he should be slain was because he had become a Muslim and used to write down the Qur'an Revelation. Then he apostatized."

Tabari BIII:178 / Ishaq:550

We next find out what happened to this man who knew the truth:

"Abdallah bin Sa'd fled to Uthman, his brother, who after hiding him, finally surrendered him to the Prophet. Uthman asked for clemency. Muhammed did not respond, remaining silent for a long time. Muhammed explained, 'By Allah, I kept silent so that one of you might go up to him and cut off his head!' One of the Ansar said, 'Why didn't you give me a sign?' Allah's Apostle replied, 'A prophet does not kill by pointing.'" Tabari VIII:179

Now you can claim I know nothing of Islam, and I could not care any less. The reason? If you'll believe what you've said so far, then the actual truth will mean nothing.

And that too, proves my point.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:44 PM
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Well, if one looks at all of the Abrahamic religions, it becomes clear that they are filled with violence and trechery. The Muslims basically still live by the eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth philosophy....So, I think that speaks for itself

[edit on 27-9-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:52 PM
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I suggest everyone review this thread that I posted a while back and take consideration about what is going on in this world today.


Islam and Christianity's quest for control

[edit on 27-9-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 02:56 AM
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Originally posted by SauberBMW
um being a fellow Muslim myself and having read the Quran and studied it..

The info you have is all wrong.

Islam means Peace or submission to god. And the quran doesn't teach violence or hatred. Gods hates the people who hate their neighbors. So please go to an actual muslim or Mosque and not watch videos you find on the Web.

Heck i can make a video showing how the bibles tells Christians to kill children and worship satan


Yes you are right, the info is all wrong, in both islam and christianity, Religon is a fraud, a divide and conquer gimick.. The qoran and the bible was not written by any god of the sort, it was written by men!

There for i dont believe a word of either of them.. Religon brings in billions of dollars every year, The money that religon brings in could feed the world twice over, its a fraud! Religon is evil disguised as good.. How many people have died in the name of religon? Religon promotes peace? Wake up people..



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 03:04 AM
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Originally posted by Copernicus

Umm, newsflash... Christians are not exactly peaceful either. In fact, I bet more people has died in the name of Christianity over the years than any other religion.

This perceived difference between countries and religions only serve to create more conflicts in the world. Do you think its impossible to solve conflicts by other means than violence? If you think Islamic people are just animals that should be shot, then you have never been to the middle east yourself.

If you go by the media picture of the middle east, you would think everybody sits around in caves, shooting automatic weapons at the sky... its the dumbed down version I bet a lot of people get in their heads when thinking of the middle east.



[edit on 27-9-2008 by Copernicus]


So the things carried out in the name of christianity are vile or the basis of the religion is vile? there is a huge difference. The basis of islam is 'kill whitey' in a nutshell. Of course there are the convert and enslave options, but thats pretty much how it goes down.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 03:23 AM
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I just had a notion! I know its kinda off topic but i just recently finished watching Stargate season 10 on DVD and noticed how similar the Book of Origin is to the Koran in that it promotes the killing anybody who does not convert. Maybe MGM was told to make up a bad guy similar to Muslims.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 05:54 AM
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Hi Mark & all

I recommend you see the doco by Natgeo called aptly 'The Koran' before you make such a single minded judgement on the moslem people and the religion.
It explains how the diverse factions of the religion stem from the different interpretations or translations of The Koran across the world.
here the site for the doco

natgeotv.com.au...

The Koran has been modified for political purposes in many countries and hence has created different factions, ie the traditional head dress/burka varies HUGELY in Cario across the different factions of Islam - from the full net over the eyes/full body black sheet to just a headdress or not at all. Depending on the persons heritage the factions differ.

The doco shows how the Koran thats printed in Saudi, if i remember correctly, actually uses words like 'kill with missiles, tanks guns' or things to that effect in the holy text and is different from Korans printed elsewhere. All Koran versions were translated from 1 ancient text and the ancient arabic script has been translated incorrectly and 'guesstimated'.

I am not moslem or christian, however i grew up with heaps of moslem from christmas island, i was learning arabic when i was 9 with them and considered becoming moslem at that time - purely so i could hang out with my mates more as they were always at the mosque or learning scriptures!!

My take on why Islam has such 'strong and active influence' , so to speak, on its devotees as opposed to Christianity is because The Koran is actually more of a 'Way' or 'code' to live by, as opposed to the Bible which is more abiguous in its lessons on behaviour and personal responsibilty in the eyes of 'God' so to speak.

Anyone thats lives by a Way or ie a strict code will find their behaviour modified at every action and reaction they think or make. for example Samurai - Way of the Warrior, the basis of this code is the Virtue - Honour, Respect , Loyalty, Benevolence, Integrity, Justice, Truth. To Honour themselves and their Way is to live these Virtues.
This 'Way' internalises the responsibilty of all actions of the Samurai, making him/her responsible for his/her reactions.

The same can said of Followers of Islam. This is why the Fanatics are so err fanatical in their actions. The corrupt versions of The Koran they are instructed in compel them to be internally responsible for their Way.

If Ive not exlpained this clearly please let me know, i tried to simplify whats in my head...

Anyhow I can say the basis of The TRUE Koran is Love and if you read a 'good version, i found it a 'better read' or if i was so inclined, a more believable story than the bible. ---- I mean this loosely, im not trying to say the Bible/Christianity is any less or more valid than Islam or any religion. Anyone whose going to get upset - Please take that as figuratively speaking. Im not bagging Christianity or Islam or any religion.

I believe if your beliefs truely fulfill you in the way that mine fulfill me, then nothing is more beautiful. For what a belief system does to fill a soul is awesome.

I posted this reply as I feel key to us moving forward as beings on Earth and surviving we need to gain understanding between us.
We need to have less opinions and more perceptions. One persons opinion is one 'emotive' perception - that means there are many perceptions to every situation. Perception is Everything.
Also anyone who puts anothers way or person down in the name of the accusers being the better 'way' is hypocritical of who they say they are. A better way is not one built on judgement and misunderstanding and i urge people displaying this behaviour to redefine their honour.

Have the Best Day


*jumps off soapbox*

themuse


[edit on 28/9/2008 by themuse]



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