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Decision 2008- Canada

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posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 10:06 AM
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I wanted to see my fellow Canadians' take on our own upcoming election

thanks "Steve" I really didn't want to vote again anytime soon, but...

I am not a card carrying member of any of the political parties. Used to vote Liberal, won't ever vote Conservative, last election voted NDP, and this time I honestly have no clue.

Won't vote liberal again until they get a leader who has more "oomph". Stephan Dion just comes across as someone who is one dimensional. Now, I am not saying that this is the case, I am saying that is how he comes across to me. I admit I don't know a lot about the whole Carbon Tax stuff and I should investigte, I want to know more about it than the Conservative scare tactics ads would have me believe. Oh yeah another older issue, HRDC Jane Stewart, need I say more ?

Won't vote conservative. Stephen Harper scares the crap out of me. He has broken his own election rule. During the last election he ran on the premise of "cleaning up government". Doesn't seem to me he has done that. Does anyone remember him saying he didn't need to co operate with the Ethics Commissioner and that he didn't "have to" ? In my own opinion of course, I feel that Harper wishes to be too much like George W Bush for my liking. One thing I have to say in his favour though, he is one of the first Prime Ministers willing to spend any decent money on our Military and they so desperately need it. More recently the issue of the allegedly "suspicious" grant by MP Mackay to a women's advocacy group, when they had targeted thos same groups for major cuts.

NDP ? Not sure about this one. Am looking into their platform in more details.


I am tired of voting for the "lesser of the evils".

who are you going to vote for Canada, and why ? Would like to hear/read your opinions, and Please let's keep it civil please whether we agree or disagree with eachothers' points of view.




posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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Steven Harper scares the crap out of me as well....and according to the polls it looks as if he may gain a majority goverment.

I like Layton myself although I am pro life.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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can i say something why do all these candidates have to be caker

i mean some variety please, must our country constantly be at the whims of the English, i would like to see a black, Latino, Chinese, something other than what we have, even if they dont win, since "they" pick the rulers anyway

btw vote liberal - no im kidding i say dont vote because its a waste of time



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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while I do respect your choice not to vote if you do so... for myself personally, I would never do that, because I consider it a priviledge.

However, I do agree with the fact that there really isn't a lot to chose from out there, is there ?

although, 2 of our previous Prime Ministers were French speaking, Trudeau and Chrétien, so it's not necessarily the whims of the English.




posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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Well, I don't vote as I'm an American but I DO live in Canada. I moved here about 6 months prior to the previous election. Let me just say as someone coming from the States watching your elections was FASCINATING. I was pretty bummed out when Harper's government got the minority because I really liked Paul Martin.

Also, this is really unpopular amongst the Canadians I know (they look at me as if I have two heads when I say it) but after studying up on him a bit I think Chretien was amazing. I was watching some old footage of him on YouTube the other day (some of it from parliament and others from different speeches he's given) and I looked at my husband after one of them and said, "Now doesn't he make Dion look like an ignorant pansy?" He had to concede the point.

As far as this election goes:

Conservatives - Steven Harper: I would say "Bush with a twist of Maple Syrup" but I know that isn't the case. For one thing, the man is obviously far more intelligent. His use of the King's English doesn't embarrass Canadians on a daily basis, and his French seems effortless, smooth, and perfect. I don't actually speak french but I listen to people speak it daily. I know Paul Martin grew-up in Quebec but for some reason when he speaks French it sounds a bit like he's got a mouthful of marbles, and it seems difficult for him.

Policy-wise Harper is Bush with a twist of Maple Syrup. Opposes same-sex marriage;is all about the "war on Terra"; secretive and non-transparent; whittled your MASSIVE economic surplus left by the Liberals down to almost nothing (why do people equate conservatives = good with money anyway? On BOTH sides of the border that has been proven patently false OVER and OVER); his environmental policy is a joke, as is his "Minister For The Environment".

The most disgusting aspect (IMHO) is the tactics they've ripped directly out of the Republican play-book. I noticed this watching Question Period (during Parliament.) A member of the opposition (doesn't matter who: Liberals, NDP, Bloc) will stand-up and ask a question about policy. For example, "Canada's environmental plan is still non-existent. We refused Kyoto and have yet to release our own plan. What is your government going to do about this?" Stephen Harper or one of his goons will then stand up and say something which amounts to little more than: "The liberals had 13 years to fix the environment and what did they do? Nothing!" then sits down. lol Whenever Conservatives are asked about issues they don't answer the question, they bash the liberals. It's disgusting.

Liberals - Stephane Dion: It pains me to say this but I feel like the Liberals have a snowball's chance in hell of winning anything in this election. They seem like they've been floundering since last time, and their choice of leader was awful. The Carbon Tax thing is ridiculous, although in my opinion taxes for anything but corporations is little more than enslavement of the populace...so I'm biased.

NDP - Jack Layton: I LOVE THE NDP!!! If I could vote I would be all over these guys. But, I'm also a hard-core, lefty-pinko-socialist. lol I don't think that they will win anything this time, but based on their gains during the last election I think they may really surprise the Liberals and Conservatives and be big enough to do some damage (or fix some damage) in Parliament.

Bloc Québécois - Gilles Duceppe: This guy amuses me. At least he has no chance of becoming Prime Minister. I find it really interesting that a party who cares only for the interests of one segment of the population gets such a large seat at the federal table. They don't even bother trying to act like they're interested in ALL Canadians...just the Quebecois. Strange.

Anyway, at least we've only got to sit through a few weeks of campaigning, and not the three-year endurance trial we have to go through in America. My prediction for the outcome: Harper wins. I don't like it but I think it is what will happen. NDP isn't big enough yet to roust him, and the Liberals screwed up and chose a leader no one wants. I hope I'm wrong....but most of all I hope he doesn't get his majority.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by Malynn
 


Wow thanks for your reply, I am humbled that the person who has the most in depth post on here so far is not a Canadian, but rather an Amercian who lives here. Perhaps that gives you a more objective opinion than most of the rest of us ?

O love your George Bush with a twist of Maple Syrup analogy by the way




posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by RealMckoy
 



Perhaps that gives you a more objective opinion than most of the rest of us ?


Perhaps. I didn't have any prejudices against any of your parties when I came here, except the Conservatives. But that was based on their name alone. I naturally equate the word conservative with Republican.

However, I've since learned that Canadian Conservatives are a whole different ball of wax from American Republicans. Their core values may be similar, however their deeper nature is much more humane, and tolerant than Republicans. I still don't like them



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by Malynn
 


Interesting comments

What is your opinion on Canadian Election Process vs American Election, like the fact that it last less than 40 days (not like 2 years in the USA).

More civilized, less civilized?

It is simple (not relying too much on machine, punching hole, etc.), hand ballot.

Where are you to heard French daily?



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:25 PM
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Any gov't that says that anything that the Ombudsman's Office publishes has to be vetted by the Prime Minister's Office(PMO) is leaning precariously close to a dictatorship. Harper will never get my vote. My problem is that I'm in a True Blue riding. I'll go to the polls and mentally flip a coin on the Lib's and NDP.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 



You know Intrepid, I had forgotten all about the anything and everything was supposed to be vetted through the Prime Minister's Office rule of thumb that had come out, how in the heck did I forget about that ? thanks for reminding me !



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by PopeyeFAFL
 


Well, as I alluded to in a previous post I like the fact that your election cycle is so short. By the end of an American Election we all feel fatigued. The type and sheer volume of political adds is a lot to take in. You guys "go negative" as well, but somehow it seems a lot less negative than the States. Maybe it doesn't seem as bad because we only have to deal with it for a few weeks.

I like the Parliamentary system much better. It seems far superior to our two-party congressional system. Having four federal parties to choose from is pretty cool (and of course you have a few more fringe parties as well.)

Your Prime Minister has to stand up in front of Parliament on a regular basis and field questions from the opposition, and he very rarely gets any slow-pitch softballs. All this in full public view on your equivalent of C-Span, and I can't remember what that channel is at the moment. If George W. Bush had to answer to Congress every day and defend himself and his decisions I think the mess we're in now wouldn't be quite as devastating. Mostly because I think he'd have problems talking his way out of a paper-bag.

Plus, there's nothing like seeing a leader you despise called the political equivalent of a goat-licker, to his face, on national television. Priceless. Watching congressional stuff on C-Span is like watching paint dry. Watching Parliament in Canada is like fight-night. HIGHLY entertaining.

The fact that you haven't turned over the process of voting to a huge corporation to do on machines with no paper trail is fabulous. That almost goes without saying. The odds of Canada having rigged elections is pretty damn small.

What I Don't Like

The fact that Canadians don't vote for their Prime Minister. They vote for their Member of Parliament. For any Americans reading this thread who don't know what I'm talking about (and please Canadians...correct me if I'm wrong on how I describe this):

When Canadians have federal elections all the MPs come up for election at once. There will be a Conservative, Liberal, and NDP candidate for each riding (ridings are kind of like Congressional Districts), and Bloc if the riding is in Quebec. Canadians vote for which party they want to represent their riding. At the end of the election whichever party has the most MPs elected gets to form the government, and supply the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is selected by the party members ahead of time. I'm not a big fan of this. I don't have any suggestions on how else you could do it, I just know that I'm not crazy about Members of Parliament getting to decide who will be your Prime Minister. Canadians only get to cast votes for which party they want.



Where are you to heard French daily?


Winnipeg. It has the largest French speaking population outside of Quebec. They even have their own French neighborhood: St. Boniface and I used to live there. All the businesses have their signs in French and the stop-signs say Arret. They have a really neat French festival every winter called Festival du Voyageur (sp?). Even though I no longer live in that neighborhood I still hear French every day: at the grocery store, walking down the street. Lots of Francophones here, although they also seem very proud of their Canadian heritage at the same time.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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Any gov't that says that anything that the Ombudsman's Office publishes has to be vetted by the Prime Minister's Office(PMO) is leaning precariously close to a dictatorship.


Intrepid, I agree with you in context but I would like to remind you that other PM's have been equally controlling. Chretien and Trudeau especially come to mind. The latter being a communist sympathizer and basically a self-centered narcissist who had little use for anyone with an opposing viewpoint. So your comments are not lost on only Conservative voters (ie. moi) A la prochaine!



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Cynic
 


True but Trudeau kept Canada Canadian. This path we are going down with Harper essentially would be like removing the border. I don't vote party, voted Tory before, not in this instance. "Harper, not worth the risk."



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Oh please, I thought you were a little more objective than that. What are you planning to do then, hold your nose and vote ABC?



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by Cynic
 


I thought Canadians were above the partisan tripe that we see on the board and in American media. Sadly I was wrong. Since when did I become the topic?



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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"anything that the Ombudsman's Office publishes has to be vetted by the Prime Minister's Office(PMO)"

That's a good point, one I actually was not aware of (Ombudsman's publishings). I knew Harper had a tight leash on his MP's with regards to speaking with the media but this is different.

It's these incremental steps that should be of concern to the average citizen. Harper currently in office is at a very bad time for us Canadians and a very good time for some others (not implying a country or nation here).

We know Harper attended the 2003 Bilderberg meeting, as do MANY heads of state BEFORE they're elected. Anyone who knows about Bilderberg knows that nothing goes on there that's in the best interest of you or I or your average citizen, regardless of nationality.

IMO, Harper in a minority at the moment, going into an election (at this current state and time), could be the best thing for them (not the party). Not only do they have a legit shot at a majority, they also have another shot in the near future if they only manage to secure another minority.

It's pivotal times for Canadian direction right now with the US economic crisis and what will result and take shape. Harper will be sure to lead policy in the way favourable to a NAU (North American Union). They, (Bilderbergs) are succeeding in Canadian direction and it's not looking good for the upcoming times.

Personally, I've being paying attention to a member of Harper's gov't that is on my "not good" radar. That's Tony Clement, the Minister of Health. I am against this guy in so many ways, it's heavily bothersome. But that's for another thread.

Currently, it's my certain opinion that Harper's conservatives are the worst thing going for us.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by Cynic
 


I may be ignorant about it, or perhaps it just never made the media, but, I have never heard of a Previous Prime Minister insisting that anything that one of his Minister's had to say, needed to go through his office and get approval first.

I am not being sarcastic here, as I have said above, perhaps it never made the media or perhaps I was just not aware of it.

Thanks for the responses so far. It's interesting to read opinions here.

Malynn, you are correct in what you describe and that is why there has been people who feel we need electoral reform here in Canada. Many people feel that we should be able to have a vote for whoever we want in our riding and then a seperate vote for whom we would chose as Prime Minister.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by RealMckoy
 


No offense taken my friend. Read closely about Trudeau, while he may not have publicly muzzled his ministers, he ruled with an iron fist. His attempt to transform us into Cuba North is proof enough I'm afraid. As for Chretien, he was too blinded by his own arrogance to try. Check the recent golf-ball dialogue when he was being (rightfully) pilloried at the Gomery inquiry.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


You wound me. Partisan - Nope. A true believer - Yup.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by Cynic
 



Ok, I will read more about that. I did like Trudeau though, so in the immortal words of Toby Keith, lol, "how do you like me now?"

That doesn't mean I can't respect the opinion of others who didn't like him though.







 
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