The $700 billion proposed Bail-out to protect Wall Street is nothing but a short term fix with long term consequences. The trickle-down economics philosophy and corporate deregulation created the situation we are currently facing. Why should we combat this situation with a trickle-down handout to the failed investors to "fix the economy" when we could instead fix the bad loans, improve the Federal Loan Insurance programs and improve laws to prevent predatory lending.


The Bail-out is nothing more than subsidy to investors at the taxpayer's expense. It will cost $10,000 per family in taxes. Investors must take risks for their profits, they need to deal with their own losses. We are ultimately giving money to these people and corporations just because they are rich and they failed, and hoping that if they don't fail, our economy will be fine. That's not the way things work, and the past 8 years have proven this. The government can stabilize the economy without handing out money to the investors whose decisions proved unwise.


The effects of this Bail-out will be felt for an entire generation. The entire plan is incredibly short-sighted. The government has chosen to take money away from everybody and give it to failed institutions and investors in the hopes of stabilizing the situation instead of helping the people that are actually suffering and losing their jobs and homes.


Why aren't we angry yet?

the relief package, or TARP, or bailout is shortsighted
but i'd like to present further facts, to decide just what is the real stature of this fund.


During the week of 15 - 19 sept, numberous Banks & Financial Institutions went to the Fed Window and borrowed $938.75billion

During the prior months, these Banks & Financial Institutions
went to the Fed Window and borrowed more than $400billion

The Fed has been taking the banks toxic-paper and other assets
as collateral for these longer than 30 day loans (the Fed obliged
these cash strapped banks with loan extensions, possibly 90 days
or even longer for some.)


so...we have the fact that the bad collateral totaling more than $1.38Trillion
which was supposed to be freezing up the credit creation market,
has been put into a Federal Reserve pool for the time being.
which in effect makes the Fed itself a whole lot poorer, by holding all this unmarketable securities.


On top of the already sequestered $1.38Trillion from the banks etc,
the Fed is demanding another immediate $700billion, with no questions, and no accountability (see the ATS thread about the 32 words that are verbotten to be publicized)
which is needed (we are told) to free up the mortgage-related-securities, and to free up the credit creation market.



~thought~ the credit market is made available by all banks willingness to make credit available, credit for both Main Street and credit between banks


If the already $1.38 trillion spent on liquidity for the banks
If the demise of several banks, along with the erasing of their debts
...if both those factors hasn't helped credit markets to unfreeze,
and banks to loan again--both to Main Street and to each other,
i scratch my head how another $700billion will suddenly open the floodgates.
As i see it, the next $700bn will be swallowed up, the banks will not start lending to Every-man USA, but will only lend to the very best customers and at a high interest rate (say Libor +10%)


or- as an alternative--- the Fed will take that $700bn, and buy the toxic, complex-securities that are clogging the operations of the 4-5 select Primary-Dealer banks, which the Fed has determined need to survive for the US economic engine to continue running.
~~however, even these banks/financial institutions, even with clean balance sheets can still hoard the money and not free up the credit markets or buy back any of that bad paper (that the $700bn relief program bought)




? are we engaged in the equivelent financial war of gog-magog that precedes a financial battle of armageddon ?
? or are they on the up-&-up, trying to rescue american capitalism ?

Terrific, label me as you will. However, I believe this to be a LEGITIMATE subject liable to valid debate. If I'm wrong I apologize 'sincerely', however I believe there is something here. Behead me for feeling the way I feel, I should give a rats ass less. [**NOTE** Cursing, such as "ass" in your ATS threads will often cause your ATS points to be either frozen or deleted, however in this particular case I honestly care less.]

With that said............

[edit on 28-9-2008 by Quarantine]

Who are you mad at Quarantien...my post sandwiched between yours ??


here it is Sunday, 28 Sept @ around 5:55pm est,it seems the 'Financial Markets Bill' passed with 9 'Nays' in the house, and now goes to the Senate.
And Pelosi said @ 5:32 pm est, that the entire bill will be on the web in 48 hours.


Here's two points i see that are extremely Faulty at the onset.


1. the regulating of CEO pay.... a wage control thing is not possible... unless there is an Execuitive Order to regulate CEO pay.


2. the 'Golden Parachute' clause in the bill is also BS, & just pablum for the angry masses ...
the Bill before the lawmakers cannot do away with 'Contract Law'--I know that the upper level Elites & CEOs in particular, have a pay and retirement contract already in place...the contract was negotiated before they accepted the CEO position ---> and Way Before the Financial Market Bill got set in motion because of the credit crunch./ credit market freezing./ RMBS defaults.



ADD: #3. (some 2 hours later)-> the bill does not address the fact that the "bad-behavior firms" can, under the present rules, slip in lots of the 'Level-3" assets that were not on the company books and Balance-Sheets....the same balance-sheets that were used as evidence that the companies were in trouble and could not unfreeze assets for money to keep the credit markets Solvent.

now--- what is the taxpayer moneys supposed to do...?
Is our mission merely 'open up' the credit market makets with capital
~OR~
Is it the taxpayers mission to make the 'player-user' bankers 'Whole' for all their losses in the derivatives they have gambled with & lost?
I guarantee, the banks will put all those unmarketable securities into the mix... because they Know that there will never be a market for that bogus 'betting paper' even in the 7 year time frame that Congress is telling us.

This 'Financial Markets Bill', should not get to be a paycheck for all the banks' stupid bets... the money must be used for ONLY for the frozen mortgage paper/debt instruments




the Bill is attempting to accomplish what President Putin did to the Russian Oligarchs--- he made them History !
consider the CEOs in our system as equivelent to the Oligarchs in the Russian, fledgling- capitalistic- markets


the Elites have the economy & the total Congress (house & senate) by the ching-a-derras imho



[edit on 28-9-2008 by St Udio]

I will tell you why I am mad. These bankers have made mistakes. Because of them we the US tax payers must bail them out to the tune of 700 BILLION or else the economy will fail, allegedly.

Now then if we gave every US tax payer One million dollars we could afford to pay off our mortgages and put the rest in the bank after we pay off all our debts. This plan would only cost around 300 Million. With an M not a B.

One plan is alot cheaper than the other but either way both ideas will tank the economy for sure...and that seems to be the administrations desire anyways... so why not try it the later way just for funs sake.... Why should the rich be the only one allowed such extravagant welfare?

Good post, I also agree this is only a tempory fix. In the long term the flaw still remains, nothing is repaired, its an economic black hole.

Originally posted by titorite


Now then if we gave every US tax payer One million dollars we could afford to pay off our mortgages and put the rest in the bank after we pay off all our debts. This plan would only cost around 300 Million. With an M not a B.

well there are 300million people lets say 200million own a house or property or some indebtedness and if we give 1 million to those folks (200 million times 1 million)

so yes this would be a better economy bolstering move.

but this is not 200 million dollars it is more than that and more than we lent out correct? 1billion is Thousand million (10 9 ), rather than the original European meaning of million million (10 12 ).
so the fed could have given everyone 1 million it seems and stay under 700billion US dollars sounds like a devalueing of the monetary system a bit of a risk.. or it could have erase all debt and let everyone start over...the US would reign supreme

I just called my congressman's office in Washington DC, and they are open and taking people's opinion.
PLEASE, if you are against this bill, look up your congressman's phone number in DC. They are staffing the phones now.