'Bail Out Populism': The Mob is Storming the Wrong Castle

The mob should storm TWO castle's

wall street and the gov't

or perhaps i was looking at a "FUN house Mirror" seeing two castles

The real culprit is that the greed from wall street has gained leverage over certain aspects of gov't who are supposed to act in our interests. particularly there are fox's guarding the hen house in the treasury and there are lobbyists for the banks who gained leverage over a great many congressman.

what this leads to is what should now be referred to as the MAJORITY PARTY which is the result when you combine WALL STREET corporations and institution and U.S GOV'T Collusion. call this the Establisment/Wall street Party. By the way the financial media are mouth pieces for them in case you didn't realize. They can portray candidates in the minority party (" the patritotic constitution defending working man's party" such as Ron Paul an Dennis Kucinich as Wacko's or whatever they wish. And lots of people bought it.

I will smile so LARGE if the write in vote for Kucinich and Paul is in Double Digits.


Call there buisness plan the Fascist Business Model as ecnomist Jim Willie has been saying for awhile.

Originally posted by Universal Light
Respectfully, I could not disagree more.

The Fed is the culprit. It is an Un-American coporation though the masses have been confused to believe it is an American agency. The government is the front for the shadow world bankers truly running the planet.

These coporations are tied to the Fed. They are all in on it together in order to consoldate wealth in order to centralize government.

You're right about the media lying. They are blaming everyone but the Fed.

Peace

the govt signed legislation that created the FED

therefore, the problem does really lie at its heart , in the failed structure of our govt and the lack of oversight
thats why its so easy to corrupt

Originally posted by atlasastro
Quite frankly i am astounded that you can separate the Govt. from Corporations, and in particular the Banking Corporations.
Special Interests. Lobbyists. How much did the US govt just hand over to the auto industry a few days ago?
The Corporations ARE the Govt. Who pays for all the campaigns. Who pays for all those lobbyists. Who get the Tax breaks, the funding, the contracts, and the get out of jail free bail out pass......Corporations. Where do Politicians go to retire...Corporations.
You mentioned Frankenstein in your OP. Frankenstein is the monster called GOVT. And he is pieced together in Corporate Castles. Let 'em burn.
I'm rooting for the towns folk. Quite frankly I do not see the difference between Big Banks and Corporations and the US Government.



[edit on 27-9-2008 by atlasastro]

I agree with you fully on this . Important point is this. The fed supplies foriegn cash for the banks to lend out by selling treasury bonds . foriegn investors have been sucked in by the loan sharks in the US too .
But I doubt if these big foriegn investors went in to this dodgy deal with their eyes closed. After all, THEY are the prime originators of these loans so they get to call the shots when the US is declared bankrupt.
Its called economic warfare . Americas greed and hubris has been exploited to bring it to its knees .

Its an engineered crisis , question is who benefits when US citizens are reduced to debt slaves on probation ?

The Auto buyout is differant. Its the same deal that they gave Chrysler years ago. That will be paid back, unlike the bank bailout. They will suredly play games with the money and NOT use it as will be stated in the bailout documents! they wil probably put half of it in foreign banks to make interest and slowly let it trickle back to help the situation if at all!


Zindo

I blame them both. They can point fingers at each other all they want, but neither of them serve the people as they say and are supposed to.

The federal reserve is an obvious scam. And the government is it's biggest customer, and the reason we have the fed in the first place.

reply to post by reconpilot
So the question is; what is the 'right' way to do this? What is intrinsically screwed up? I venture to say we 1) need to abolish the whole concept of corporations, where you can do criminal and unethical acts with no resulting accountability and 2)eliminate the counterfeiters who call themselves 'bankers' and 3)get people to understand that there is no good debt or bad debt as some would have you believe. There is only bad debt. Oh, and we need too eliminate the whole concept of bribing politicians thru PACs, and calling it legitimate. That is how bankers/counterfeiters have gotten away with robbery for generations. You can argue about good loans and risky loans all you want, but if the guy loaning it to you only counterfeited the money he loans you, how is any of it right? In the 30s after the Depression started, government had to at least appear to be doing something. So they enacted laws saying the banks couldn't loan out more than 9x what they actually had in the vault. Easy. The banks already were doing that. But it appeared good, and that is what politics is all about, appearance. And they got a private British bank to lend money to the government, and called it by a government sounding name, so they had a little credibility where none was deserved. The problem is not risky loans, it is the fact that ALL of those loans are being counterfeited and the prices of housing and cars are inflating accordingly. If you fix the risky loan part, it is still a sheister game, and it is still going to balloon out of control, because the money bidding up the prices is still counterfeit. Prices rise in a free market due to demand. And if anyone is counterfeiting the money, they are stealing from all participants. They are falsely producing demand, where there is in reality only a fraction of that demand.
But the scum bag bankers are bribing the politicans thru their PACs, so it is supposedly 'legal'. This is all preparing for the return of Christ, who will appropriately punish these 'bankers/counterfeiters' and return us to a free market. Staying out of debt is only partially the personal answer; you are dealing with a society that has embraced debt, lying, and deception. You still have to deal with being the odd ball who is not buying into all the lies like everyone else. It is far easier to just go with the crowd, but if you want to be right, well, that is a whole other story...

Originally posted by Universal Light
Respectfully, I could not disagree more.

The Fed is the culprit. It is an Un-American coporation though the masses have been confused to believe it is an American agency. The government is the front for the shadow world bankers truly running the planet.

These coporations are tied to the Fed. They are all in on it together in order to consoldate wealth in order to centralize government.

You're right about the media lying. They are blaming everyone but the Fed.

Peace

It is very strange how none of the media is ever willing to discuss the unconstitutionality of the Federal Reserve. Of course we know that all the media outlets are owned by big corporation and rich elites. So of course the true culprit in all this mess won't reach the light of day. And they all have a vested interest in preserving the status quo of the Fed.

OP,

Do you think the Government does their own thing?

Sounds a bit ignorant to me. (using the word with it's true definition)

They are but mere puppets of the Money Makers.

Yes, the correct castle to storm IS That Of The Money Makers, NOT their tools.




for clarity

[edit on 9-27-08 by tsEnigma]

Originally posted by tsEnigma
OP,

Do you think the Government does their own thing?

Sounds a bit ignorant to me. (using the word with it's true definition)

They are but mere puppets of the Money Makers.

Yes, the correct castle to storm IS That Of The Money Makers, NOT their tools.

Yes, and here's a good overview of the Money Makers and they control who gets elected.

www.illuminati-news.com...

Curious how McCain commented endearingly of Ted Kennedy at the start of the debate. The link makes a good point about the fact that out of all the Kennedy sons, only Ted survived.

As to Washington, un-elect the lot of them. There are no innocents in the bunch, and not a one has shown the integrity to resign in protest. As for the money crowd, they are unlikely to be affected by any action that can be done by people behaving reasonably, i fear that we may have to hope that God sees to their lesson.

reply to post by LowLevelMason


So what you're saying is that a repeat of the attempted Coup d'tat of the United States by the Wall Street Bankers and Ceo's of the largest US Corp's of the 1930's is the fault of Gov't?

They were well on their way to completing their scheme, but alas, they went to the wrong General to stage their execution of a fascist dictatorship HERE, ala Mussolini, Franco and Hitler. All of whom these same BANKERS FINANCED.

These bumblers went to a Quaker raised American Hero. Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, Commandant of the US MARINES ,WWl Hero, twice decorated with Congressional Medal Of Honor.

Butler blew the whistle on them and in exchange for not prosecuting them, FDR got his New Deal and Social Security package.

Read "War Is A Racket" a short book by Major General Butler.

Then watch the "Money Masters" and "Freedom to Fascism".

These Banking/Corporate TransNational Giants have worked together for decades to achieve this agenda. Just because you've bought into this YUPPIE dream/nightmare
doesn't mean we do. Spread your ill informed, poorly researched pack of disinformation elsewhere.

Thank You.

There was a good thread here with a video showing exactly how this all began. The thread died off pretty quickly, but the video is excellent.
Here's how we came to the bail-out
By Becker44

Here is the video:

Maybe it got no attention because of the people named in it...



[edit on 9/28/2008 by defcon5]

Originally posted by LowLevelMason
Au contraire, fair townspeople. You’ve been lied to by the media. You see, the media has a narrative that they fashion in order to get viewers – populism. Appeal to the people – get them pissed, get them angry, and get them self-righteous. Its good for the ratings. Paint something as evil, and attack it. People will watch.

If you're arguing that the media just tries to get viewers, and is merely painting something as evil then attacking, what's that say about the Iraq War, or about how much of mass media has treated the Bush administration over the last 8 years? This is the sort of reasoning the anti-intellectual far-right crowd has used for years to "discredit" mass media.

Since I'm part of the "evil media" (you'd get along with Nixon and a whole host of Neocons for blaming the media) I think I'm somewhat qualified to tell you there are loads of people working in media who do really incredibly stupid things, because many people in mass media don't understand the importance of not pissing off the viewers, and not pissing off the advertisers.

Companies had their hand forced. Government told them they’d be charged with all variety of things and be investigated if they did not give more loans out to people who could not afford them. Concurrently, government artificially manipulated the market to make it profitable for companies to give out these loans. Companies couldn’t ignore it – they were regulated into submission, and failing to offer such a loan when all competitors were doing it would drive companies that resisted the urge into failure.

Ah, yes--the mighty, noble businessmen, who exist only to turn a profit and to continue existing. The problem with that reasoning, or the problem with any such attempt to explain a system, is the assumption that we're talking about rational, honest beings. In a rational, honest system, a banker would look at what the minority customer could afford, and would refuse to give out a bad loan--but could perhaps offer some sort of encouragement, out of the knowledge that at least some profit could be derived. The home builder, rather than going for high margins, could realize that he could grow a more sustainable business by building affordable housing in affordable areas, and turn it into a niche. And the customer could make an informed decision to buy one of these houses.

Reality, of course, is different.

In reality, the disadvantaged person has been barraged with messages that they "deserve" a piece of the "American dream" and do stupid things. The homebuilder "knows" that they can take out a big loan for a big house and make "lots of money." And the unscrupulous banker will leverage their bank 1000:1 in the hopes (and I say this based on the mountain of evidence that this happened all the time) that they could sell the toxic loans before the things blew up on them.

And let's ignore the evidence that nearly every problem area is one in which regulation was lax, or nonexistent, and people were doing things like ensuring debt they didn't hold, or shorting stock they didn't own.

And let's ignore the mountains of reasons for the markets not being free after the Great Depression, or the gentler business cycle after the Fed was instituted.

No, it's all the government's fault.

I'll agree that the SEC turning a blind eye is a major failing. Repealing Depression-era codes was stupid, too.

The anti-government stance will play well in a place like ATS, and painting "the media" as part of the machine will as well, but let's, you know, "deny ignorance" for a change. Let's stop ignoring history, and stop ignoring common sense. Everyone was complacent, there are no castles which should not be stormed, but you are right, this plan must go through because the alternative is far worse than any of the "just let 'em fail" crowd understands.

[edit on 28-9-2008 by regeya]

Originally posted by Universal Light
Respectfully, I could not disagree more.

The Fed is the culprit. It is an Un-American coporation though the masses have been confused to believe it is an American agency. The government is the front for the shadow world bankers truly running the planet.

These coporations are tied to the Fed. They are all in on it together in order to consoldate wealth in order to centralize government.

You're right about the media lying. They are blaming everyone but the Fed.

Peace

It was the same Democrats negotiating the "deal" that encouraged Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to do everything you attribute to the Fed. The were all involved up to their wallets.

Originally posted by defcon5
There was a good thread here with a video showing exactly how this all began. The thread died off pretty quickly, but the video is excellent.
Here's how we came to the bail-out
By Becker44

Here is the video....

Wow!!! You're not kidding. That's some awesomely powerful facts. It's videos like this that could destroy Obama's chance of being elected.

Are there any like it showing who is to blame for the US being dependent on foreign oil? The whole economy mess is the result of rising oil prices. OPEC has us by the balls and the Democrats won't allow our own oil resources to be tapped? And what happened to nuclear energy? France is mostly nuclear powered. Why did we allow ourselves to be addicted to oil in the first place? Republicans seem to be in bed with OPEC. What's the deal?

I find it ironic that both sides blame the other whenever something goes wrong. I guess that old saying, "the buck stops here," isn't practiced anymore by politicians anymore.

I think we all need to look deep inside and re-evaluate why we're in the mess we are. Why are drugs and pornography such a big industry in America? Why does Hollywood produce such mind-numbing, dumbed-down entertainment? Why is the US educational system so inept? Our culture is producing future generations of retards. (sorry, facts) Fluoride has made a whole population of spiritually dense people. Being stuck in this Matrix, who has the qualifications to point fingers and blame? Who's going to fix this? Who even realizes the true cause of our national problems? The Obama savior? The McCain stooge? Obviously not, or they would be addressing the real issues and not just dancing around playing the blame game.

Btw, time to abolish the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, as well. That's the real cause of our financial mess.


[edit on 9/28/2008 by Matrix1111]

Originally posted by defcon5

Maybe it got no attention because of the people named in it...

[edit on 9/28/2008 by defcon5]

I think it got less reaction because while I enjoy the explanation of the housing crisis, it is basically just an advertisement for McCain.

While I have no problem whatsoever with the idea that the Democratic party is in the hands of special interests, bought and paid for by rich corporate types, there is no way on this Earth that I am going to buy the idea that the Republican party is NOT bought and paid for by rich corporate types and thus will become our saviors.

Face it. Both parties have the same agenda. Both parties support in policy, spending, and their nominations to the judiciary a takeover of America by corporate interests. The fact that they represent different corporate interests means little to us down here at the bottom. So what, the Democrats support those in this housing fiasco, does that take anything away from the fact that the Republicans support those who get us into equally expensive wars that allow oil companies to make record profits and gain access to some of the richest untapped oil reserves in the world?

The only way for us at the bottom to win here, is to ensure BOTH parties lose. We need a third party candidate, and some real campaign finance reform. Vote for Ron Paul, or Nader, or anyone but these two corporate shills.

reply to post by ZindoDoone


The double loan thing is sometimes necessary even if you make decent money. For example here in the San Francisco Bay Area home prices were sky high during the boom. (They still are relatively high compared to other parts of the country as well). Anyway my Uncle makes around 85-90k a year (and is single so he gets raped on taxes). The house he purchased in 2005 was 380,000 dollars. He didn't have the money on hand to put down 20%. He only had about 40 grand saved up. So he had to get a second mortgage for the additional amount. He's not losing his house or anything. To give you an idea of what this buys, it's a 2 bed 1 bath 1 car garage 1150 square foot home.

I think the problem stems from the baby boomers and their 'investment' properties. I just like blaming boomers for all problems. Not to mention that real wages haven't gone up in accordance to housing prices (not to mention inflation) since the 70's.