Bailouts - Why Whining Americans Don't Get It

reply to post by EvilBat


The bailout is to buy the bad loans from the lenders for dirt cheap in hopes that the tresury profit in the long run or not. Either way the rich is picking up most of the tab with their fat paychecks through taxes.


[edit on 30-9-2008 by amfirst]

If this poster really worked for the government he will make a good candidate because they all talk like him.

reply to post by UScitizen


It doesn't matter. Because of the bad loans, home value are depreciating drasticly and more people will be unemployed. They will all eventually stop paying their mortgage unless it's already paid off. The remaining bank will everntually crumble like the rest.

They may be buying other banks right now for long term investments, but when sh1t hits the fan and the investor pulls out, they will go down under too.

No one is dumb enough to invest in a property when the value continues to drop and the credit system going belly up.

[edit on 30-9-2008 by amfirst]

reply to post by SteveR


You are clearly one of the "Suits". And you're trying to mislead the average American. I think it's shameful and hope that you live to eat your words. You're not helping us at all.

How completely dishonest the OP is. Who acts like it's this system or NOTHING at all. It's a complete load of bull, and the entire "Scholar" title here just lost a huge amount of credibility.

Newsflash, we don't have to keep a system of debt in order to have an economy. We don't need to borrow up money at interest from the federal reserve in order to have an economy. These people are nothing more than leeches on the economy, and their leeching has gotten so bad that the host itself is dieing and is having trouble sustaining itself.

And rather than removing the leeches from the system, these bailout plans only serve the purpose of giving the leeches a bigger host to feed off of, the American people.

You are the Whining American who doesn't get it. Whining for a bailout to keep you afloat.

What a crock. I think I'll send ANOTHER email to my congressman now telling him NOT to give into the whining Americans asking for handouts from their million dollar homes.



[edit on 1-10-2008 by badmedia]

Originally posted by SteveR
We are not bailing out the elite and forgetting you exist. It's very simple, by keeping the market working as it should we make sure you get everything you need when you need it. Sure there have been failures but this is nothing compared to how things could be. Without the economy, life as you've come to know it would not exist. If we give you $7000 each as someone suggested and let the system fail, you will fail.

The suits in Washington are doing the best thing for the people - in the long run. Less whining and more intelligent thinking is needed here.

Thank you

In principle yes which is why the banking sytem needs rescuing. However, the folks that created this mess (the "suits") need their proverbial rear ends reamed. For years these greedy idiots bitched and complained about regulation and taxes preventing them from doing what is best for the economy. I can't belive that here in the UK Gordon Brown still belives that or seems to (Cameron and the tories still do - read statements made less than a month ago!). We need politicians who will tell these greedy morons to go to hell and if we could fine them some way we should. No way should they be allowed to get away with what they have done. Unfortunately Bush and Brown will let them. This is what is really riling us all up. We recognise the problem, we recognise a rescue is needed but we don't see why the suits should get away with it.

Big problem here : taxes for the obscenely rich individuals, taxes for tax avoiding private equity and banks, and regulation so tight that their eyes water is what is needed. This is where the public fails miserably : no balls to apply that kind of pressure. The tabloids will tell them it's a bad idea.....and who owns the tabloids!!!! Don't believe me? In the US you'll hear scare stories about socialism by the back door, in the UK it will be the usual "increase in taxes for the working family"....and the public will fall for the scare stories and reel back from what is really needed to fix the "suits".

okay....here comes the stupid question that I seem to ask way too often....

by what I hear wachovia wasn't that bad off. they had just had a whole bunch of investors step in with funding. I got this off of BBC early yesterday morning on the radio. the guy was saying that because the fed stepped in (they were in no way in that bad of shape to warrent it) it about guarentees that no other private investor will be stepping to save any other bank in the near future.

okay, I believe it was citibank that bought them out...only wasn't citibank one of the ones that have been bailed out recently? or am I wrong here? so much for the we are bailing them out so they will lend us more money...we seem to be bailing them out so they can eat their competition for breakfast!
so we give our treasurer their $700 billion dollars....and then he gets to be the one to pick an chose which business gets to eat, which business gets to be eaten? where in the constitution, the one that declares equality....does it give any one man or any small group of men that kind of power to decide which business should survive, which one should fall...it doesn't. our founding fathers weren't crazy enough to give anyone that kind of power!

ya know I find it so ironic that the same government that was just a little while ago borrowing $1200 dollars in our name because were weren't spending enough now turns around and tells me that they need $700 billion because we've spent too much..
our spending levels were fine as long as we had our credit lifeline to draw from. once that was gone, well, we weren't spending enough....got to borrow money in their name.
now, it seems we have spent $700 billion we just couldn't afford to spend?
this tells me that there are way too many people just not earning enough to be able to spend enough to keep this economy going!

if this is true, we don't need to throw another $700 billion dollars at the mess....we need a complete overhaul of the economic structure!




[edit on 1-10-2008 by dawnstar]

You know an easy way to fix this problem, even though its how we got into this mess? The banks should lower mortgage rates to a fix 4%. This will allow people who were in an ARM to refinance, be able to afford the payments, and keep their home. Lowering the APR will also create an increase in people wanting to remolded their homes, buy new bigger ones, borrow more against their homes. Thus, more interest and more fees for the banks to make money. I know this will increase the debt for us, but people and businesses need to be responsible for themselves. If the bailout goes through, I'm tempted to stop paying my bills and let someone bail me out.

No No NO! From the bottom of my heart NO! Listen, this is not an easy situation. The banks are like the step dad of a girl who is being molested throughout childhood. But she doesnt say anything cause he bought her a car, he started her a savings fund, hes paying for college... if she gets away from him and does not let him molest her anymore her life as she knows it will fall apart...
analogy analogy analogy. do you get it?
No thanks they took our money. they devalued our dollar. they brought corruption to our govt. the kicked us out on the streets.
and you have the audacity to depict us as whiny stupid neanderthal that would start eating eachother if we dont bail them out? but you need our money to bail these thieves out. and you say we are WHINING?!! are you serious. WHINING oh that pisses me off. We work our asses off and they squander our savings, and we are whining...more like furious. please use common sense.
and thank you for pissing me off you just reminded me of how mad i really ought to be towards those inbred criminal assholes. bail them out?

I don't have a mortgage, I don't even have any credit cards. I only keep enough money in the bank to pay my bills because that is all I make. I don't have a savings account. Tell me why MY tax dollars should bail out all the morons who were too greedily lining their pockets with money to pay attention to what was going on? I am not whining. I didn't put anybody in this mess, why should I bail them out. I wouldn't bail my neighbor out of jail if he did something stupid, I see no difference here. Maybe some of those homeowners should have looked at their paperwork a little better. I realize that some of them were suckered into it and didn't realize that their payments could really get that high, but alot of them were just looking for the cheap easy way out. I don't want anyone to lose their home, but why should the rest of us pick up the tab? I say you let the banks burn. America will pick itself backup and dust itself off again because that is what we do. That which does not kill us only makes us stronger.

"Life as you know it" - that is the segment of the talking point that they keep using to scare us. "If you don't support this bailout, life as you know it will disappear" etc... You've all heard it. SteveR, I would surmise that most of us on these boards would welcome an end to "Life as we know it".

"Life as we know it"... Is the increase in wealth disparity, the disappearance of the middle class, increase in poverty, increase in prices of common goods, increase in medical costs, erosion of civil liberties, non-stop wars paid for by people who no longer support them, corrupt politicans and banksters robbing hard-working people of their money, outsourced jobs, stagnant wage growth, destruction of the family etc... Hell, I could go on and on and on and on - to the point that I run out of available characters in this post. Reality - "life as we know it" SUCKS and is getting worse and worse for the average citizen each and every year.

SteveR - I personally would welcome an abrupt an to "life as [I] know it!" I would welcome a rebuilding that emphasized building things, manufacturing things and selling things. One that prevented monopolies like WalMart. One that shunned such vaporware as the "Service economy". One that put value on the family and community. One that is simpler and more enjoyable and not chronically manipulated by the Madison Avenue Corporate Fraudsters. SteveR, I think that is what you are seeing here; more and more people agreeing with this mindset. Business as usual is no longer acceptable!

i will not be condecending, but people need to do some historical financial research, along with some economics 101 classes. alot of different "banking" systems have been tried in the past and have failed. a fiat money system works, however with that said, it needs to be regulated much more then a simple "gold and silver banking system" and i might add, a much needed group of reforms to our present system. if one of you can show how a return to the gold standard would work in this "trillions of dollars world economy", i'm all ears. what you first might want to look at is the extreme fluctuations in the american economy before 1900. there was a great many patriotic and passionate, as well as intelligent people in past american governments that tried to develop a banking system, that not only would lead to a safe and responsible way of doing the nations business, but also provide for a higher standard of living along with the growth of jobs. therefore larger and more complex ways of using "money", had to be developed to accomodate not only our nations economy, but also how to facilitate trade interactions with other countries smoothly and with transparence, to gain the trust of both sides. i could go on, but people need to "dig" into the past, and discover for themselves.

Originally posted by SteveR
In the meantime you will starve to death and functioning government will no longer exist.

Nah. We've been feeding you and your buddies (against our will) VERY well for some time. Plenty of meat on your fat, barrel arses to feed our families until we the people who actually make America work, not those who play shell games with and steal our money, create a new system that doesn't involve thieves throwing around FAKE numbers to confuse us into financial slavery. Your condescending attitude only fuels our anger, this is now class warfare. You think we are sheep, useless eaters, and I hope this anger doesn't fade, you will all see what happens when you push working populations too far. French revolution ring a bell?

[edit on 1-10-2008 by 27jd]

Originally posted by SteveR
How do you think the father gets his job? The kid his/her foods?

It's called the economy. If they give in to your whines and give you all your $7000 bailouts instead of supporting market institutions, WHAT will happen? WHAT will you spend it on?

The government's main priority is keeping the economy functioning. Only a fool would begrudge that.

Seven grand in your pocket will end up being spent in the economy...how hard is that to see?

To bail out these bankers is akin to bailing out Al Capone, hoping that he goes on the straight and narrow. Yeah right!!! It may temporarily stabilise the financial system, but in six months or a years time, we will find ourselves in the same s***, caused by the same corrupt bankers and yet again the already bankrupt public will have to bail them out again.

Meanwhile Gordon Brown does a deal with the devil.
What do we make of Gordon Brown's plans for a £1.9 trillion bail out of the British banking system? The Daily Mail reports this morning that the PM has been putting together a package with City firms UBS and NM Rothschild.

Although the scheme was later denied by Number 10 today, if true it could be a canny move by the Great Helmsman, as he presents himself as the man to steer the country's economy through choppy waters.

By constructing a bail-out package of unimaginable complexity he would guarantee that no one in the Labour Party will try get rid of him in case it goes pear-shaped.

And if the problems continue until May 2010 - the likely date of the next general election - he might be able to argue that it would risk the country's economic future if the electorate got rid of him.

No wonder there is a sense of unease at the Tory conference this week over the way that the global economic crisis has pushed the party off the front pages. How else can you explain yesterday's "look at me" speech from David Cameron?

blogs.telegraph.co.uk...

We keep hearing about "Toxic Paper" and I am trying to understand what
this means, in the search for understanding, I found a few loose
strings that when braided together, seem, in my opinion, to form one
heck of a noose.

Rep Sherman talks about how this money is going to bail out foreign
investors (as well as the scare tactics and threats incorporated into
the efforts to pass this bill)
www.youtube.com...

China and Russia are mentioned as these investors. Russia is planning
grand scale military exercises and cranking up the arms race
www.independent.co.uk...

Then I find this

Daily Real Estate News (from the National Association of Realtors)
January 2, 2007

Beware of Latest Mortgage Scam

In a scam known as shotgunning, thieves are applying for multiple home
loans simultaneously. When they get the money — sometimes millions —
they take it and leave the country.

Authorities are blaming Eastern Europeans affiliated with what is
known as the Russian Mafia. "It's the fraud of the year," says Paul
Doman, director of Title Insurance Co.'s Lenders Advantage Equity
Division. "They can pull in excess of a million dollars out of the
home, enough so they can live a good life back wherever they came
from."
Source

So if I am even warm here, Russian Mafia has been scamming on
mortgages. Those mortgages get securitized and sold, [back] to Russia,
China, and whoever else is in the market. Then the people who pulled
the scam in the first place, realize they just got stuck with their
own scam.

So they want the US to buy back the "Toxic Paper" that they were
responsible for creating in the first place!!!

Gotta say it, that's a pretty intricate scam, they are gonna get the
money twice over!! No wonder Russia can afford to spend so much money
on it's military... We're stuck with the bill!

Bail them out, not just no, but HELL NO!!!!

Red

Step 1 - Open Internet Browser

Step 2 - Go to 'Google'

Step 3 - Type in the words banks thenrecord then profit

Step 4 - At the left side of the page there are 'date tabs'. Click on the one that says 2004-2008

Step 5 - Start counting the number of news stories that note banks being unapologetic for 'record profits'

Step 6 - Start counting the number of news stories that note how the banks shared the profits through decreased bank charges, loan interest rebates and general good will towards its customers.

Step 7 - Ask yourself why is it that when the chips are down for you, the banks tell you to pound salt but now that the shoe is on the other foot, the collective taxpayer is supposed to open up the wallet, mortgage the future and generally send the U.S. further down a fiscal black hole because the banks got greedy?

Step 8 - Call your congressional representative and ask the same question, then add how the have the audacity to expect the collective taxpayer to swallow a bitter pill, complete with the greasy slime of the fattest of cuts of pork, simply because those who depend on the financial worlds' campaign contributions to get re elected.

Step 9 - Watch the news later today and witness, despite a clear majority of U.S. citizens opining to the contrary, that same congressional representative sell you down the river.

Step 10 - Accept the fact that short of a revolution, things for the middle class will never change . . . the rich will get richer off of your backs and the poor will continue to be fed with whatever is left and you . . . the average citizen will go through life supporting both to your own detriment.

Geez, some of you American's are totally paranoid & naive, who like nothing better than to take the easy route and blame anyone but yourselves. Why doesn't it surprise me that you blame Russia. Take at hard good look at your own corrupt government, before you start blaming anyone else for this mess.

GoalPoster exactly how it is.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by kindred]

reply to post by SteveR

It's very simple, by keeping the market working as it should we make sure you get everything you need when you need it.

I don't need the government, bank, or any politician to give me ANYTHING! Let it all crash, we will survive. Then we will pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and move forward with our lives.

edited to remove circumvention of automatioc censors and a personnal attack on another member. Please use good manners. Thank you.

gallopinghordes
forum mod

[edit on 5-10-2008 by gallopinghordes]