Whitehouse Threatens Veto of Second Stimulus Over Food Stamps & Unemployment Benefits

Originally posted by drsmooth23
the government is not a person and is therefore not capable of humanity.

we can post here until our fingers are bloody but until we go out and help feed the poor ourselves then all posts here are worthless

its like a moo point. you know, like a cows opinion. it just doesnt matter, its 'moo'

www.youtube.com...

The Government is made up of people--people who align themselves based on certain beliefs. Government policies can change based on who is in power (Dem/Rep in the USA)
BUT: the Government is accountable to its constituents. The constituents pay TAXES. These taxes are meant to take care of the nuts and bolts of keeping the country running in good order. Good roads, Bridges, etc.

The old days of the Nuclear Family have been gone since the rise of the Industrial age. We dont live on family compounds any more and our neighbors are too busy putting up fences. Tell you what: go ask your neighbor if they can lend you $1000 to pay your rent. Tell me what they say! Better yet, ask them if they can spare any food to feed your family or 4 for 3 days until payday. Nothing fancy, just bread milk eggs, veggies maybe some hamburger...wanna bet you get the big slammed door???

Only one way to give a signal.. withdraw youre bank assets...!!!!! let thembleed.....

Originally posted by Ellipsis
Instead we give them crutches ( welfare ) to support them and help them to heal so one day they can walk again without the crutches.

In turn they pay into the system and their money goes to supporting other people who break their legs and need crutches.

Democrat talking points right there if I've ever heard them.

Your constantly acting like the people on the programs are already walking and only want crutches because then they don't have to walk. Thats why we have a system in place to validate the need of the crutches.

1. All I see around me is abuse.
2. Apparently there's no such system in NY to validate the needs.

Originally posted by CreeWolf
To hell with the Stimulus Package; to hell with bailing out the banks. I want to see CEO's, Politicians, and other executives jumping out of buildings--1930's style!

--a Taxpayer.

Personally, I'd like to see the assets, property, stocks, etc, of each and every CEO, Board Member, major stockholder of EACH failed bank, Savings & Loan, Dot Com company, in short EVERY COMPANY THAT HAS EVER COOKED ITS BOOKS OR PROFITED OBSCENELY FROM INSIDER TRADING OR RISKY VENTURES OF ANY KIND

SEIZED!

reply to post by irishgrl


worst case scenario ask them if you can pop a tent in their yard for a few days.

obviously you have never been to a neighborhood cookout.

you also speak of this reverse robinhood theory where you only approach them when you are in need. if you get off ATS for more than five minutes a day and just say hi, make contact, shake their hand over the fence, invite them into your home, then you will see that they aren't so different from you. neighbors not strangers.

if you dont like your neghbors well chances are pretty good that we will all lose our domiciles and have to move if things get worse

I have always been interested in social services. they came to my house once when i was about 7 because when i was at the bus stop we were playing on a frozen lake and i fell in, haha. it wasnt deep, so it was funny. i knew my moms would flip if i missed the bus because she worked her tail off constantly. well the people at the school thought that me being dirty was cause for alarm.

yes, a family of three. families usually consist of either one or two people in its leadership. if they have no money and are not in search of better opportunities they have no one to blame but themselves, and the children suffer, and sometimes are molded into bad people later on in life because of the situation they were thrusted into.

once again if the proper infrastructure is not in place let big brother know. say we need libraries. we need fire stations. we need accountability at every level.

those numbers are very close to having free rent. i really wish someone would pay my rent for me, but that hasnt happened in over two years and i could not be more proud. I dont have a very stressful job but i do live in an apartment right now which im not so happy about. I do not currently make enough money to attempt to buy a house but with my savings i should be able to do so with a year or so.

Originally posted by drsmooth23
reply to post by irishgrl

 

worst case scenario ask them if you can pop a tent in their yard for a few days.

obviously you have never been to a neighborhood cookout.

you also speak of this reverse robinhood theory where you only approach them when you are in need. if you get off ATS for more than five minutes a day and just say hi, make contact, shake their hand over the fence, invite them into your home, then you will see that they aren't so different from you. neighbors not strangers.

if you dont like your neghbors well chances are pretty good that we will all lose our domiciles and have to move if things get worse

I have always been interested in social services. they came to my house once when i was about 7 because when i was at the bus stop we were playing on a frozen lake and i fell in, haha. it wasnt deep, so it was funny. i knew my moms would flip if i missed the bus because she worked her tail off constantly. well the people at the school thought that me being dirty was cause for alarm.

yes, a family of three. families usually consist of either one or two people in its leadership. if they have no money and are not in search of better opportunities they have no one to blame but themselves, and the children suffer, and sometimes are molded into bad people later on in life because of the situation they were thrusted into.

once again if the proper infrastructure is not in place let big brother know. say we need libraries. we need fire stations. we need accountability at every level.

those numbers are very close to having free rent. i really wish someone would pay my rent for me, but that hasnt happened in over two years and i could not be more proud. I dont have a very stressful job but i do live in an apartment right now which im not so happy about. I do not currently make enough money to attempt to buy a house but with my savings i should be able to do so with a year or so.

First of all, you base your assessment of me on WHAT? I do NOT spend large amounts of time on ATS, I am new here actually, so your personal jab shows me you dont have any real valid talking points you've made this personal.

I have no issues with my neighbors, so your assumption there is off base as well. The reality is THEY ARE IN THE SAME BOAT! how do I know this? THEY'VE TOLD ME! Again, you tanked.

Your assessment of welfare families is equally ignorant. And I thought you couldnt be any more so...silly me! By far the majority of welfare recipients are SINGLE MOMS and their kids. They didnt CHOOSE to be on welfare, but the MEN in their lives LEFT them high and dry to deal with the children ALONE. So, if you really want to know whose fault it is that moms and their kids are on welfare.......blame the irresponsible MEN who can father babies but not parent them. Next, many of these women are not adequately educated, thus the only jobs they are fit for are minimum wage jobs which would barely pay the rent, much less childcare (its not unusual to pay more than $800/mo for 1 child for childcare here in CA) Further, you misunderstood my numbers. I said a family of 3 receives $689cash aid, and rents here in CA are OVER $750. OVER. My point is, the cash aid cant even pay the rent. Who said anything about free rent? There is an option for subsidized housing but the waiting list is at least 3 years long. No, the reality is more and more people are becoming homeless. Moms and their kids. And they cant go home because mom and dad are also experiencing difficulties, since the jobs are disappearing, or because medical costs have forced folks to spend their savings or whatever.

By the way, the term "social services" means more than just CPS.......sheesh. Perhaps that dip in the lake froze your heart???

A big fat RAZZBERRY to you for your attitude.

[edit on 9/27/08 by irishgrl]

Originally posted by drsmooth23
the government is not a person and is therefore not capable of humanity.

we can post here until our fingers are bloody but until we go out and help feed the poor ourselves then all posts here are worthless

its like a moo point. you know, like a cows opinion. it just doesnt matter, its 'moo'

www.youtube.com...

one problem with your theory, my neighbors, my coworkers, ect.....well, the more better offs are no where to be seen, they live on the other side of town, avoid this area (rather dangerous you see).....so they come to me....who has about as much as them really.....
I do what I can, I hate to say no, but well......it's not gonna work. again, the ones that could help keep themselves isolated, over on the other side of the tracks....they were the ones that kept on ranting how things were so great, while a few of us, you are still on these sides of the tracks kept trying to convince people that nah, there ain't no way!! they have no idea what goes on here, so they don't understand the problem...which is obvious when they start their blathering. throwing more money to keep thier nice little isolated society sterialized from the problem isn't gonna help them. we are only as strong one the weakest amoung us, since it those weaker ones that keep the world turning. it's really ironic to me that the most highly paid jobs are ones that really are not necessary for the society....
you have two people in the village, one needs milk, but has plenty of eggs, the other has chickens laying eggs out the yinyang, but has no milk.....
they really don't need all these middlemen between the two of them to solve their problem, each taking their share of the pie, they just need to walk across the street and talk with each other.
otherwise, well, have fun trying to live without your file clerks, your machinists, your production workers, your farmers (at least the ones who are actually working the field), the waitresses, the cooks, the laundry workers in the hospitals, the.....god, the list is endless!! because, well, quite frankly, the gov't is broke and in debt up to it's neck. it's not gonna be able to hold the load much longer, and well.....the business sector, if it wants to remain doing business is gonna have a choice, either pay these people what they need to survive, cut the cost of living down to a manageable level, or well......go out of business because of the lack of labor.
if charity was working, the government wouldn't have stepped in to begin with, look at the current crisis and how long it took the government to make a move. they don't move unless things are beyond crisis point and they are forced to.

The mentality on this thread is really annoying and uninformed. I am glad that so many of you have your life styles so together that the suffering of the ordinary family is beneath you.
I wonder how many are actually kids making these comments that have no idea what your parents are going through right now to keep the dirty little secret from you, that they are up S***'s creek without a paddle.
As for the construction company and the greif they face I simply do not believe you or your family has been tagged as bottom feeders and are being made an example of. Noone I know that has applied for unemployment could get it, maybe that is because I live in the right to work state, maybe the numbers and the %s have been faked to cover the overexpenditures on the books. If your employees are making close to 400 a week then they must be making 5k a month working for you if not more. Where do you know of a laborer job that pays that much? I have entire crews of hard working talented laborers that will be on the job by Monday morning. Listen even the Mexicans are leaving this country, there is NO FRIGGING WORK! A 10 lb. Bag of beans are 15 dollars.
I will feel almost validated and justified if the economy fails completely because then and only then will you bastards understand what the majority of us are experiencing.

I am an independant, politically. I can understand the right's insistance on personal responsibility as opposed to supporting those who abuse the system. I can understand the left's sense of compassion for those in need. In truth, I don't think there can ever be a perfect solution to the welfare issue.

After trying to work productively for a decade, I now receive food stamps and disability benefits. I do not own an expensive TV. I do not eat steak and shrimp. I can not afford it. I support 2 kids and live on much less than the poorest worker. In fact, were it not for the generosity of my family, my junk salvaging and repair skills and odd jobs, I would be homeless and car-less. I live humbly, as is appropriate.

And I thank the compassionate people republicans and democrats who's hard-earned tax dollars help support me and my two sons.

That said, I do NOT support the right's notion of "faith based" charity. For two reasons:

1. My local religious people, while they do mean well, are not qualified to determine whether I or many millions of people like me are disabled and deserve help. Doctors and lawyers need to make those decisions based on logic and reason, not my local Bible scholars. If I knocked on a church's doors, I have no doubt that I would be turned away and told to get a job. My disability, like that of many others is not visible to the naked eye. Faith based charity is not and should not be regulated and controlled.

2. The obvious fact is that churches are more concerned with building new facilities for themselves and converting people to their beliefs than they are with feeding the poor. If churchgoers believe that giving to the poor is their responsibility, than why are they not doing it already? No one is stopping the churches from eliminating poverty locally.

Churches have what they consider, ironically, better things to do with their money than than to feed the poor. I look at church parking lots every weekend and see evidence of that in the number of new cars I see parked there. Show me a church where people drive beaters because they are spending all their money on the poor. Jesus wore sandals and fed the masses. I do not see him in any church.

message to dr. smooth:
I got your U2U, unfortunately I am unable to reply, as I dont have more than 20 posts under my belt. I thought I did but I guess not. anyway, without mentioning specifics, I agree with much of what you had to say in your message, and I extend the hand of friendship to you. I also applaud your decency and thank you for writing to me.
pax

From a scan of posts on this thread, it seems those against this measure of increasing the amount spent on social programmes think it's there to increase the amount of assistance current recipients receive.
As I see it, this is needed to cope with all the additional assistance recipients being created by the current economy. With stagnating salaries, fewer good paying jobs due to outsourcing overseas and a rising cost of living in general, of course there are going to be more people requiring assistance which in turn needs more funding.

It seems obscene that that the public should be saddled with the debts run up by multi-millionaire, greedy financiers whilst denied assistance by the their own government. This goes well beyond petty partisan politics and is just another indicator of how those in power really just don't care about those they are supposed to represent.

Those who brush this off as some sort of support for lazy spongers should also remember that they themselves, as taxpayers, are entitled to this assistance too should they fall on hard times. It's what we pay taxes for, to provide for all should the need arise, not to bail out corrupt politicians and businessmen.

reply to post by nyk537


Hi,
I just wanted to say that I'm living proof that sometimes certain things can't be helped.
I had a great job for many years cooking in a children's hospital. I Loved it; I was getting by just fine with savings goin' on and good insurance all around. Then one day I found a lump. Turns out I ended up loosing my breast, my job and almost my home, And my life which is still up in the air for now! Cancer is terrifying and difficult to deal with on Every level. I'm not here to talk about that but what I am saying that is after working all my life I end up on food satmps and am glad to have them even though it's realy not enough to get by on and I'm down to 113 lbs. with no appitite! I haven't been able to get medical for various reasons that I don't understand which is a thread in itself so am in debt for well, I don't even Know- 3 surgerys, chemo, radition, complications et all!
I just quit going to the doc, can't afford it even though I need another stupid surgery
I am humilated to use foodstamps so please don't lump foodstamp users altogether. Some of us need them and have contributed

I think it's pretty obvious from the amount of replies of people on assistance that the stereotype of the "nike wearing, big screen watching, drug dealing (probably black) male" is patently false.

The vast majority of people on welfare need it, not because they are lazy or malicious or want to take advantage of the system. Of course there are people I'm sure who take advantage of it, but look at it this way: have any of you ever "stretched the truth" on your taxes? Do the corporations you work for or the big corporations of America "stretch the truth" when it comes time to give to Uncle Sam what's due? I'm sure realistically the number of us that do this far outweighs the number who systematically take advantage of welfare.

Anyway, welfare will always be needed as long as we have 2 things: corporations that won't supply their base workers with a LIVABLE minimum wage, and a medical system based on labyrintine rules and profit of the company vs. health of the patient.

I work for a medical processor that deals with pharmacies and Medicare, and my office is right next to customer service. I've seen and heard who our clients are, and by FAR they are the elderly who can't afford their medications anymore, or they are VETS and their families. Number one line from customer service: "I'm sorry, Medicare/ChampVA/Tricare denied you. I'm sorry" (repeat ad nauseum)

These people are not taking advantage of a system, they are people who are desperately trying to keep the broken system from crushing them. It's kind of funny that they can survive 80 years through depressions, recessions, and wars, but when all is said and done the country they contributed their lives too both at home and defended abroad, rejects them in their time of need.


If this were a true Christian country full of good little middle class families of 2.5 kids they wouldn't give 2 (beep) about the govt giving whatever the poor or disabled/sick needed to lift them out of their bind, but unfortunately the modern American typically only cares about making sure they can pay for the house and car and vacations etc. that they couldn't afford in the first place because they need material items to make themselves feel better.

Sorry if I come across aggressive. Since I work in the field I get over exposed to the inherit corruption in the system so it kind of pushes my buttons when people use silly talking points to further their greed and stereotypes of the situation.

[edit on 27-9-2008 by Avenginggecko]

Originally posted by drsmooth23
the people who i personally know who receive food stamps take advantage of the system. dude who sells me bud gets food stamps. he sits on his butt all day messing with his humongous TV. his kids dont even live with him, which is good because they dont need to be around that. Government reditribution of wealth on any level for any reason is mighty communistic.

Shame on you! While some people do game the system, there are people who genuinely need the extra help. And it wouldn't really be a redistribution of wealth, more like a refund. They(banks) get subsidies, tax break,etc which is paid for by the taxpayer. And yes even those who don't work pay taxes. Gas, clothing, even tp is taxed.

Mod Edit: BB Code.

[edit on 27/9/2008 by Mirthful Me]

There are people who need welfare...but I personally feel (Yes i am going to stereotype) that any human that can not survive without government help either do not care at all for themselves either as a child growing up, or as an adult that still does not care.

We have families on welfare with KIDS that in the first place could not support themselves.

Of course there are exceptions to what I have said, families that have lost a well paying job that supported them all for whatever reason out of reach. I do not think that is the case with many of them.

I received an interesting e-mail from a friend and it's sounds good to me.

The e-mail was stating they were against the 85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG

Instead they said there should be a 85,000,000,000,.. to America in a '' We Deserve it Dividend'

If you took all the 18+ of age Americans it would come to approximately 200,000,000 divide that into the 85 and you would each get 425,000.00 pay taxes and Uncle Sam would get back over 25,000,000.00 back It would still be every adult getting about 297.000.00 husband/wife about 595,000.00

Most would use some of that to pay off there Mortgage or purchase homes which would solve the housing crisis.

People would purchase items and create jobs...I think you get the drift

In short if you are going to bailout anyone bailout every adult American US Citizen

AIG SHOULD BE LIDUIDATED, SELL OFF ITS PARTS SELL OFF THE REAL ESTATE AND LET THE PRIVATE SECTOR BARGAIN HUNTERS CUT IT UP AND CLEAN IT UP.

Would be nice wouldn't it.

Originally posted by antar
As for the construction company and the greif they face I simply do not believe you or your family has been tagged as bottom feeders and are being made an example of. Noone I know that has applied for unemployment could get it, maybe that is because I live in the right to work state, maybe the numbers and the %s have been faked to cover the overexpenditures on the books. If your employees are making close to 400 a week then they must be making 5k a month working for you if not more. Where do you know of a laborer job that pays that much? I have entire crews of hard working talented laborers that will be on the job by Monday morning. Listen even the Mexicans are leaving this country, there is NO FRIGGING WORK! A 10 lb. Bag of beans are 15 dollars.

Union carpenters get just over $30/hour in their checks. With benefits, union expenses and insurances it costs about $70/hour to actually hire them. Yes, they collect $365/week because they all happen to be married with kids and the amount gets upped (I think it is $350 and goes up to $365)

I know we are ignored by unemployment because I spent 3 years with part of my job being to sit there and keep trying to contact them. They only accept fax, generally don't respond at all and when they do simply send me a form telling me they applied and because they aren't working they are paying them.

We haven't been tagged, we aren't being made an example of. UIA is ignoring companies because they don't care. It isn't their money.

I just don't think it helps to extend unemployment because that just adds to a company's inability to hire people by costing them more money exactly when they don't have it.
It would be like paying a monthly fine if you don't have cable because it was too expensive for you. Same logic.

Mod Edit: BB Code.

[edit on 27/9/2008 by Mirthful Me]

The only thing i have ever asked the government is for unemployment- I certainly hope they dont take that away from me or others.

Let them try it

reply to post by observe50


Use a calculator. It is $425 NOT $425,000

reply to post by nyk537


I am sorry you are dead wrong and completely full of yourself. You have not ever faced adversity by your admission, and when you stand on your soapbox waving your banner of success in the face of care just makes me sick. But you will have time to repent because you will find out in the near future, very near future that you cannot ever be an island and you can take that one to the bank. We North Americans do not know what it means to suffer. But our time is coming. I am sorry but that is true or there is no justice.