Originally posted by CeltAngel
A tad off topic for the current discussion, but relevant to the thread - I just discovered this thread today and the Youtube video is gone and when I attempt to login to the Flickr page, I don't have permission to the pics.

Please forgive me, as 16 pages is a lot to read through, did something happen that the pictures were taken down?

Yes Mr Dennis Wingo 'strongly requested' that this info be made to go away. Steve at Flicker thought it wise to do so... youtube obliged the request... and I have also had several requests to 'tone it down'

Originally posted by Matyas
Yes, but we need to ask ourselves if ATS is the best place to do that, mm?

Well on that note... I just went through several weeks of deciding just that. I even jumped over to Project Avalon/Project Camelot...

Now over there there was an interview by 'Henry Deacon', a supposed ex LLNL employee who is a whistle blower. In the interview he mentions specifically the "Project Looking Glass" at Los Alamos, and reluctantly "Shiva Nova"...

Well both those topics I have already collected a LOT of material on, even posted the actual document on Looking Glass here at ATS, where it ended up in Skunkworks ignored and forgotten

I spent a day putting all the relevant data onto Project Camelot in response to the interview... the REAL hard data on the projects including the link to the LLNL laser home page (Shiva Nova is a laser capable of creating a small Sun in a chamber )

What happened is Henry flipped... called me PSYOPS and all the material and his threads were deleted.

So much for people wanting the truth.

I guess fuzzy images of rocks and UFO's are okay but don't show the real stuff...

Now in this case here... I was sent the original info by the photographer... He pointed to my site, specifically the Lunar Orbiter pages and sent me the links...

I then wrote him back for more information and to see how to handle this...

No reply... but then the Youtube video was posted...

Okay so its out on Flicker and Youtube... and it was sent to me with the sender fully aware of what my site is all about and where I post...

Now I get 'knocked' for sensationalism... because I state in the OP "Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found" People want to play that game... but since these tapes have not been available to the public for 40 years then turn up in such a fashion on the floor of an abandoned McDonalds... I stick by my choice of title.


I have still not heard back from Steve... but I have had mail from another project 'participant'. (in quotes as I don't yet have his official connection, same as Dr X)

(The following is directed at the watchers )

Sensationalism?

Who was it that labeled the original Flicker posts "Pirate McDonald's" and "McMoon" ?

Who was it that thought it was funny to put a Pirate Flag in the window?

Who was it that in the opening question/headline of Flicker said...

"We discovered a most unusual covert operation in a McDonalds today… What could it be?"

How about the 'misinformation' part?

Steve said this.... "In this McDonalds, the only copy of that datais about to be resurrected. Erik and I dropped in for a visit after the LUNAR rocket launch at NASA Ames."

If this is indeed the ONLY copy, then how is AU and USGS making their high res versions in the digitization project?

So this whole episode here is bizarre. And finishing the opening flickr statement with this comment..

"And yes, the conspiracy continues, with McDonalds' long and sordid history with the Apollo program..." - Steve

Uh huh right no intent at sensationalism there

98 flags after only 16 pages is a pretty big roar. If everyone here could help get it down to a low rumble it will be very much appreciated by said interested parties.
You know. Run silent, run deep.

Hmmm perhaps your right...

"Silence is Golden" they say... I am sure it is better for all if this just fades away... back into the shadows. from wence it came...

Methinks I hear Caid calling.... time to get the rust off the armor

[edit on 30-9-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by StargateSG7
ATS MEMBER TALKS TO HOLDER OF NASA MOON ORBITER TAPES!

Firstly Henry A. Eckstein you have come in here with your Clunking and Banging selling your woo's that's All you came in for $$ in your eye's, get the Media you stated for WHO? WHY? their the last Parisite that's needed .
Seriously Why would a guy like Dennis Wingo even Appreciate someone like your self Henry A. Eckstein Start/Try/ Telling him how to do His stuff,Honestly, First Retrieve than play But First Retrieve the DATA With the Ampex FR-900's for Human sake!
Now you Henry A. Eckstein it seems have gone and stomped your way into this mans Life and PROJECT!

Now your here Telling us that:
"I have personally talked to Dennis Wingo"....WOOOW

"and he explained to me his exasperationat the MANY websites (including ATS whom he specifically mentioned by name) that have caused a great disturbance in the Webspace and Blogosphere and that he says has hampered his efforts to bring the archival NASA footage to the public domain."

Now Henry A. Eckstein YOU Have approached this Man and told him your a "ATS MEMBER" You Henry SHOULD NOT OFF APPROACHED THIS MAN(Dennis Wingo) at any time UNTIL HE FINISHERS HIS PROJECT!!
and I Quote:

"ATS MEMBER TALKS TO HOLDER OF NASA MOON ORBITER TAPES! "

"great disturbance in the Webspace and Blogosphere" This is ATS Mate even I can smell a Rat!

Now you State :"His demeanor on the phone" On the phone Doesn't mean You spoke to Dennis Wingo "personally" I'm a nerd and "Phones are Impersonal"!

"After offering my technical expertise, he informed me that the NASA tapes were stored and maintained very well and are in EXCELLENT condition and that he is FULLY CAPABLE of finishing the transfer process without my or anyone else's help!"

He Meant You Henry A. Eckstein Who needs a Pest.

"Mr. Wingo also states that he has seen NOTHING that would be considered anomalous or "Conspiratorial" within the imagery he has transferred and reiterated"

So Henry does this mean he has Finished this Project? so than you can go away.No way he has Finished Not even started I say!


"These are the wisest words so far Henrey But why didn't you Known that before hand??
In conclusion, I suggest that we wait and see
before we rush to judgement and that cooler heads
must prevail before "we doth protest too mucheth".
So hold your horses and let the guy do his job
and only THEN can we comment with a modicum
of certainty or truth! "

I Hate to be were FOOLS TREAD!

Go away!

Zelong.

ATS MEMBER TALKS TO HOLDER OF NASA MOON ORBITER TAPES!


Firstly Henry A. Eckstein you have come in here with your Clunking and Banging selling your woo's that's All you came in for $$ in your eye's, get the Media you stated for WHO? WHY? their the last Parisite that's needed .
Seriously Why would a guy like Dennis Wingo even Appreciate someone like your self Henry A. Eckstein Start/Try/ Telling him how to do His stuff,Honestly, First Retrieve than play But First Retrieve the DATA With the Ampex FR-900's for Human sake!
Now you Henry A. Eckstein it seems have gone and stomped your way into this mans Life and PROJECT!

----
MY REPLY:
Actually I am NOT in this for the money, more for gathering some
esoteric knowledge. I think the biggest issue which you have is my
style of writing which I do admit is somewhat "Advertising-Like"
and Sensationalist....but that is only because my instructors at
SAIT CTSR Broadcast television courses taught us very well by
telling us to appeal to the emotions...plus that writing AD copy
was one of my favorite classes!

I do undertsand that Mr. Wingo does NOT need pests hanging around
and by the tone of his voice I knew NOT to push the length or number
of my questions thus I kept them to a minimum thus I only got 5 minutes
of his precious time.

It was easy to tell he was annoyed at the attention
which I can admit has been entirely BLOWN out of all proportion.
That very fact should illustrate to you all that WORDS COUNT!
and that words spread far and wide on the Web and Blogosphere
DO HAVE CONSEQUENCES.....AND....that posters on ATS SHOULD
BE AWARE that the powers that be MANY TIMES take your WORDS
VERY VERY SERIOUSLY ---- So ---- Watch what you say!

Ampex FR-900's ? I did NOT know that, I was basing my guess
that it was the TBM series based upon a textual description because
I did NOT have a photo to compare them to, SO I stand CORRECTED
that these are FR-900's and will change by earlier text!
-----




----

Now your here Telling us that:
"I have personally talked to Dennis Wingo"....WOOOW
and he explained to me his exasperationat the MANY websites (including ATS whom he specifically mentioned by name) that have caused a great disturbance in the Webspace and Blogosphere and that he says has hampered his efforts to bring the archival NASA footage to the public domain."



Now Henry A. Eckstein YOU Have approached this Man and told him your a "ATS MEMBER" You Henry SHOULD NOT OFF APPROACHED THIS MAN(Dennis Wingo) at any time UNTIL HE FINISHERS HIS PROJECT!!
and I Quote:
----
MY REPLY:

I told him NO SUCH THING that I was an ATS member, I merely
told him I was a researcher and was willing to offer some technical
expertise...which I was more than willing to do. He refused
and I understand his very certain answer and left it at that!
----


"ATS MEMBER TALKS TO HOLDER OF NASA MOON ORBITER TAPES! "



"great disturbance in the Webspace and Blogosphere" This is ATS Mate even I can smell a Rat!

Now you State :"His demeanor on the phone" On the phone Doesn't mean You spoke to Dennis Wingo "personally" I'm a nerd and "Phones are Impersonal"!

-----
MY REPLY:

EQ (Emotional Intelligence Quotient) is an ability to READ PEOPLE
even if one is not talking in person merely by ascertaining by appearance
OR voice & tone, one's state at that moment. It was VERY obvious that
he was a very annoyed person and he began ranting about ATS specifically
and the Nutcases that were bothering him.

It was NOT my intention to harass him, but merely to get as
much information as I could in the short period of time I had.
NOT everyone in the world is as gung-ho about conspiracy theory
as we are and to put it mildly, many in the MSM and outside world
think that ATS members are mostly a bunch of "Whack-job Wing-Nuts"
who believe in Little Green Men under the Bed or that Elvis is still Alive!

And regarding the "Great disturbances" quote, that is an allegorical
cultural reference to Star Wars mythology which is a deliberate
artifact of my style of writing.

-----

"After offering my technical expertise, he informed me that the NASA tapes were stored and maintained very well and are in EXCELLENT condition and that he is FULLY CAPABLE of finishing the transfer process without my or anyone else's help!"

He Meant You Henry A. Eckstein Who needs a Pest.

-----
MY REPLY:

ABSOLUTELY HE ALSO meant me in addition to all the Wing-Nut Whackos
who keep calling him......
-----

"Mr. Wingo also states that he has seen NOTHING that would be considered anomalous or "Conspiratorial" within the imagery he has transferred and reiterated"



So Henry does this mean he has Finished this Project? so than you can go away.No way he has Finished Not even started I say!

----
He HAS transferred SOME tapes and not all and so far he has NOT SEEN
anything truly out of the ordinary. And he DID state that once the process
is complete, it will be released for all the "Wing-Nut Wackos" of the
world to look for any little green men (My Own Words!)
----

----
"These are the wisest words so far Henrey But why didn't you Known that before hand??
In conclusion, I suggest that we wait and see
before we rush to judgement and that cooler heads
must prevail before "we doth protest too mucheth".
So hold your horses and let the guy do his job
and only THEN can we comment with a modicum
of certainty or truth! "

I Hate to be were FOOLS TREAD!

Go away!

Zelong.

--------
MY REPLY:

GOING AWAY is NOT one of my strong traits....In fact, people who
tell me to go away in a blustery manner make me only MORE determined.

Mr. Wingo was at least far more courteous than most people that I have
interviewed and I must state that at no time did he personally disparage
me, but rather he stated his case about people who are bothering him
so I didn't PUSH the issue any further because I KNEW he was annoyed
at the attention he was receiving and basically I have and will leave him
alone unless he asks for my help!
--------

ANNOYED REPLY FROM ME:

On an aside, I DO HAVE significant expertise in achival material and unless
HE has transferred THREE MILLION FEET+ of multi-format film to video
OR designed and coded 15 MILLION LINES+ of Borland Delphi
Multi-processing & Distributed Processing Neural Net-based image
processing & reconstruction code ALL BY HIMSELF, then I think
I have some say in the matter of ARCHIVAL SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTISE
since I have a few thousand tapes, discs and hard drives stored away myself!

In response to an earlier message, I understand that the
tape machines in the photos were possibly Ampex TBM digital
tape recorder machines. I AM WRONG IN THIS....The tape
machines are actually Ampex FR-900 analog video recorders.
So I stand corrected!

I have done some further digging and have come across a
powerpoint presentation which outlines the technical issues
related to the NASA tapes preservation project:

lunarbase.rutgers.edu/presentations/Lundquist.ppt

After reviewing the presentation and doing some further
Internet digging, it is with great humility that I must admit
to a Mea Culpa and apologize to Mr. Dennis Wingo in that
he is obviously part of a funded, professional-level archival
project and NOT part of a half-assed home-body country
bumpkins greed-fest...I must therefore state it is
THE GENERAL CONSPIRACY THEORY COMMUNITY AT LARGE
(Which includes ATS!) that has harassed and blown his efforts
out-of-proportion by insinuating that the NASA tapes project
has been deliberately mishandled so as to deceive Jane & John Q. Public
about the nefarious and/or hidden agenda that
is stored within those historically significant
video archives. THIS IS NOW OBVIOUSLY NOT THE CASE!
I think it has more been a case of not thinking about
the future during that hectic time-period of 1967 to 1973!

BUT I DO MUST PUT SOME BLAME ON NASA in
that I do not understand WHY between 1967 to 1973
that NASA DID NOT THINK that the incoming video
streams would NOT be important enough to have
a dedicated long-term archive team put together
to preserve such video content for long-term
historical and scientific scrutiny which
WOULD OBVIOUSLY be improved upon by
future-examination with upcoming,
more advanced video technologies.

DID THEY NOT TAKE TIME TO THINK that it MIGHT be a good idea
to preserve such data within a centralized and highly-structured
archival environment that could be accessed on a long-term basis?

The company I work for has THOUSANDS of FILMS AND VIDEO TAPES
some from the early 1970's PRESERVED for long-term storage and
archive and REGULARLY reviewed for movement to newer data/file formats!

IF WE DO THAT OURSELVES, Why didn't NASA protect their
intellectual assets which included VIDEO ?????

Originally posted by rocksarerocks
Exactly...there is nothing on this tape except moon rocks.

Seen them have you? Funny how Mr Wingo can make such a statement as the whole issue is that THEY are seeking funding to make the machines work to even LOOK at the data

Silly Lemming... so desperate to grasp at straws.

Nope didn't work

[edit on 30-9-2008 by zorgon]

Just so people understand I am NOT DEFENDING Mr. Wingo
in his assertations....I merely understand his motivations as
to why he doesn't want any help.

As noted in his Powerpoint Presentation, he is seeking FUNDING
which means he wants to at least to cover his costs and maybe make
SOME profit of his venture either via the publicity his transfer effort
will generate or via the monies given to him by NASA or other
government agency.

Such aspirations of renumeration are not illegal,
just merely uncomfortable to many on ATS!

And I have read how upset posters on ATS have become
as to Mr. Wingo's desires and motivations which to me
are NOT that much of an issue whereas MANY of YOU HAVE
made it a "Big Deal" and in my opinion have blown his
efforts quite out of proportion when a more constructive
line would be to OFFER financial help or advanced technical
support in a manner that would NOT hinder his personal efforts
or be overly instrusive in his area of expertise. When a project
becomes "Your Baby" it is HIGHLY ANNOYING to have outsiders
stomp all over you or continuously knocking or phoning
and otherwise just plain old interfering.

One technical issue that still remains problematic for me though,
is the methodology and systems used to transfer the tapes
to digital video formats.

I believe that Mr. Wingo's methods are far too time and money
intensive when other more qualitatively-superior video transfer
methods are available (i.e. such as my Optical Scan System)
for use in this endeavour. He has three 1960's/1970's era
tape machines to get the data off those fragile video reels
when I could have 10 or 20 or more optically-based scanning
systems up and running within TWO WEEKS to transfer a number
of tapes at a time to any SDTV or HDTV format I so wish
without user intervention other than loading the reels
onto my reel-to-reel drive.

All my system needs is a reel-to-reel playback mechanism
using simple stepper motors, a quality microscope lens
on a sliding rail and a large format CCD camera plus
my auto-stitching and video frame reconstruction software
running on some networked Best-Buy purchased PC's.

It's definitely fast and basically offers FAR BETTER quality output
because I can filter OUT the tape noise inherent in helical scan
videotape transfer mechanisms so my final video quality will be
MUCH BETTER than what Mr. Wingo will be able to do.

I think the term to apply to me is "Hypocrite" and that's the fun
about sites like ATS...It's very EASY to change one's opinion and
if necessary Letting the Pot Call the Kettle Black

In my case I was all-gung ho and was all enthused as to
charging in like a raging bull to find out more info and to help out if I can.

In hindsight I realized it might not have been such a good idea
since it is HIS BABY and me doing numerous projects MYSELF
without outside help, I personally would be INFURIATED at people
like "ME" who charge in like a bull in a China shop without all the
information and trying to muscle in on something that is beloved
to his dear heart.

Therefore I must change my tune....and agree with Mr. Wingo
in terms of leaving him alone and WAITING for the results
of his efforts.

---

And regarding my motives......I am a secret agent of the
Australian Darkness sent here to influence and manipulate
you all as it is obvious none of you can be trusted with
the secrets of the Universe!

If you do not all simply bow down to my every wish and whim,
I shall sick Sarah Palin in a Bikini on you and her significant assets
will be used to milk you into submission........

However I am open to receiving CASHOLA in unmarked bills
to my Luxembourg bank account IF you will all just agree
with me in all I say and do even if it is contradictory!

I AM WATCHING YOU ALL !!!!!!!!! I AM THE MASTER OF THIS UNIVERSE!!!

P.S. Anybody got a buck for some McDonalds' coffee?