Missing Lunar Orbiter Tapes Found

reply to post by zorgon


LOL! I will do.

ATS MEMBER TALKS TO HOLDER OF NASA MOON ORBITER TAPES!

I have personally talked to Dennis Wingo who currently holds a
vast archive of 1960's/1970's era moon orbiter video footage via
telephone for approximately five minutes at 7:00 pm Pacific Time
on September 29, 2008 and he explained to me his exasperation
at the MANY websites (including ATS whom he specifically mentioned
by name) that have caused a great disturbance in the Webspace
and Blogosphere and that he says has hampered his efforts
to bring the archival NASA footage to the public domain.

He explicitly informed me that ALL the tapes will be
presented to the NASA archives and therefore WILL be made
public domain as soon as he can finish the tape transfer process.

After offering my technical expertise, he informed me that
the NASA tapes were stored and maintained very well and are
in EXCELLENT condition and that he is FULLY CAPABLE of finishing
the transfer process without my or anyone else's help!

His demeanor on the phone was professional and courteous,
although he did express his obvious chagrin at the myriad
of "Conspiracy Sites" and "Nutcases" that have created
a worldwide furore over his efforts. He indicated his
displeasure at being hampered by the constant and
bothersome interruptions and would prefer that he
be allowed to continue his efforts in peace.

Mr. Wingo also states that he has seen NOTHING that
would be considered anomalous or "Conspiratorial"
within the imagery he has transferred and reiterated
that once the footage is released in it's entirety,
those who have the skills can do what they wish
with the video data that is to come.

I did NOT ask him about the photos posted on this ATS
thread regarding the tapes strewn about in an unverifiably
abandoned or shut-down McDonalds and thus I personally cannot
make any comment about those photos as to their veracity or content.

In conclusion, I suggest that we wait and see
before we rush to judgement and that cooler heads
must prevail before "we doth protest too mucheth".
So hold your horses and let the guy do his job
and only THEN can we comment with a modicum
of certainty or truth!

---

by

Henry A. Eckstein
aka ATS User: StargateSG7

P.S. For those OTHERS OF YOU who have more sinister
or more secretive imagery, please do email me at:

[email protected]

with the Subject line of:

ATTN: ATS Threads - Forensic Evidence Examination

I will then contact you via email or by phone
so that I can arrange to have you send me your "Stuff"
to my abode via a secured method for further forensic
quality examination.

I can accept Windows Bitmap, TIFF, JPEG, PNG, RAW RGB,
Photoshop PSD, Corel Photopaint, AVI, Quicktime, WMV, MPEG1/2/4
DVD, VCD, BluRay, Betacam SP, Video-8, Hi-8, 3/4" U-matic,
Mini-DV, Hard Drive, 8mm/16mm/35mm/70mm Positive Print film
and even more esoteric formats for those of you who wish
answers to your most secretive questions.

Originally posted by StargateSG7

In conclusion, I suggest that we wait and see
before we rush to judgement and that cooler heads
must prevail before "we doth protest too mucheth".
So hold your horses and let the guy do his job
and only THEN can we comment with a modicum
of certainty or truth!

INTERESTING...

Funny I was just about to post something similar. I retracted the letter writing 'campaign' in light of new information via email and there is an "Anonymous Reply" pending approval...

As soon as I get permission to quote from the email I will share what I can

Seems you are already known to the team Mr Henry A. Eckstein

Originally posted by StargateSG7
His demeanor on the phone was professional and courteous,
although he did express his obvious chagrin at the myriad
of "Conspiracy Sites" and "Nutcases" that have created
a worldwide furore over his efforts. He indicated his
displeasure at being hampered by the constant and
bothersome interruptions and would prefer that he
be allowed to continue his efforts in peace.

Myriad sites and Worldwide furore? That ought to be good for ATS ratings we got that much coverage so quickly? It was only released a few days ago and already pulled. Maybe he is exaggerating a little? I mean he did post his contact info at Cadilac looking for assistance.

Surely one does not think google is a useless tool?

Personally I would be happier if he would simply release a statement that the INTENT is to preserve these tapes for posterity and that the INTENT is to make them available to the taxpayer who paid for them over 40 years ago...

Surely not to much to ask in the interest of peace?

MAKE THEM AVAILABLE TO THE TAXPAYERS

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by ZeroGhost
They where using airbrushes in the 20's. Just look at Art Deco works to see proof.

Yes but on photos? In Photoshop?

When I worked with NASA in 1990 I was wandering the halls and came across the division head scientist I worked with sitting in a little room looking at high resolution pictures of Mars from the Viking lander. I did not know the images where such high resolution, AND digital, but he was looking at wind sculpted sand structure around a rock and we talked about how different such a thin atmosphere effected such common things so differently than Earth.

I was working on an 8386 AT computer at the time so had some small systems knowledge, but he was using a Silicon Graphics Crimson and I thought that was a god to my little system at the time.

It was the world's first 64-bit workstation. Crimson was a member of Silicon Graphics's SGI IRIS 4D series of deskside systems; it was also known as the 4D/510 workstation. It was similar to other SGI IRIS 4D deskside workstations, and could utilise a wide range of graphics options (up to RealityEngine).

They had that for a single division (ALS, Advanced Life Support) So imagine what they had in secret, assuming they saved the best for the darker recesses of the government.

I would not be surprised if they had digital manipulation in the 60's.

ZG

reply to post by zorgon


As the Apollo Knowledge Transfer presentation says; this is a collaborative effort between NASA, Dennis Wingo of Skycorp, Inc, and the University of Alabama at Huntsville. Skycorp has had contracts with NASA since 2005. The contracts have been for; Aeronautics and Space Technology -- Basic Research (R&D), ADP Input/Output and Storage Devices, and Arts/Graphics Services.

UAH has an ongoing program of creating digital archives of various aspects of US aerospace programs. The completed projects are available. There is every reason to believe that the results of this project will be made available to the public.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Phage]

Originally posted by Electro38
reply to post by BlasteR

 

Thanks for posting that, I did not see it. They really are doing something there.

So these were previously classified, and now declassified tapes?

Yea I'm guessing they're declassified since their stockpiled in an abandoned McDonalds... If they weren't, NASA would be firing people (which could already be happening..). Who knows if NASA even knew the exact location this effort was being carried out since it is a collaborative effort between NASA and private industry.

If the gov doesn't ask a question you don't have to answer.. The only catch is when they do.. You get the idea.. Whatever private industries can do to cut corners with the already limited NASA funding means more profit in the end.. And if NASA never really cared to ask where this effort was being undertaken, that's pretty sad.

Nothing happens without some kind of justification.. That is the backbone every federal government funded project and institution. The process is obviously much more convoluted than that but when it gets down to the bare bones of WHY projects such as this are funded, the justification has to be clearly defined, researched, reviewed, etc..

Its also quite possible that NASA just basically told them "Do it wherever you need. We don't really care at this point". Especially given the fact the effort currently within NASA to prepare for manned missions back to the moon in a few years. NASA employees and contractors are running around like chickens with their head cut off trying to do everything at once... Prepare for the manned missions back to the moon, conduct research into an eventual manned mars mission, prepare for the shuttle mission that is set to re-repair the hubble space telescope (which, today, stopped sending signals back to earth altogether). The hubble mission in particular is going to be tricky.. They mission has now been kicked back a few months to add the recent communications failure to the list of things needing to be fixed.. That isn't as simple as re-writing the flight plan. Astronauts have to be trained, engineers have to figure out what can be done to fix the problem, etc....

NASA currently plans on new imaging missions to the moon to look for manned-mission landing sites for when the mission(s) eventually take place (which seems like a huge waste of money given the amount of extreme detail we already have of the moon). But if images of the moon are what NASA really wants right now to find those landing sites, you could see how everyone would be in a hurry with regards to this effort at McDonalds ((LAUGH))!

-ChriS

[edit on 29-9-2008 by BlasteR]

Originally posted by Phage
As the Apollo Knowledge Transfer presentation says; this is a collaborative effort between NASA, Dennis Wingo of Skycorp, Inc, and the University of Alabama at Huntsville. Skycorp has had contracts with NASA since 2005. The contracts have been for; Aeronautics and Space Technology -- Basic Research (R&D), ADP Input/Output and Storage Devices, and Arts/Graphics Services.

Fair enough... but if this is the case... why are they having funding issues?

reply to post by zorgon



Dunno. No federal contract for 2008.
I won't speculate but I'm sure someone will.

Originally posted by ZeroGhost
reply to post by zorgon

 

I am an Airbrush expert. I used several types and brands daily for illustrating from the 70's to the late 90's photo retouching, illustrating and such.

ZG

Ahh... ZG! Now I know who's been assisting NASA with the airbrushing! Lol!

Hey Zorg, now where the dickens are those tapes? Thanks to Stargate who's willing to help, but without them it's just turning out to be a pointless execise.

Regarding my own quote posted earlier:

===
"His demeanor on the phone was professional and courteous,
although he did express his obvious chagrin at the myriad
of "Conspiracy Sites" and "Nutcases" that have created
a worldwide furore over his efforts. He indicated his
displeasure at being hampered by the constant and
bothersome interruptions and would prefer that he
be allowed to continue his efforts in peace."
=====

I should CAUTION READERS that the words "myriad" and
"worldwide furore" are MY OWN words and NOT a direct quote
from Mr. Wingo...He indicated that more than one site and more
than one person has basically caused him to feel harassed
and/or bothered. He did NOT specifically mention an exact
number or the names of other sites. The humerous thing was
he mentioned ATS specifically WITHOUT ANY prompting from me!

And again I wish to re-iterate that he was courteous and
professional on the phone but was obviously ANNOYED
at all the attention.

====

On a secondary point regarding photographic manipulation techniques,
MODERN FORENSIC technology would pick up film grain mismatches
in older photographs done using the older "analog" methods
of airbrushing.

And the painting of pixels and digital manipulation was first demonstrated
from what I understand at the precursor to the MIT Media Lab in the
mid 1970's within the auspices of a pre-1980's Project Athena networking
system and using workstations/minisupers such as the 1970's era
DEC PDP 11/Vax 750/Vax 780 and early 1980' era Apollo, Stardent,
Convex and other early pix-oriented computer systems.

Lucasfilm begat some SERIOUS pixel magic when some ex-employees
spun off into their own companies to create the AVID Video editing
system and Photoshop Paint program and then the computer graphics
industry that we have today....!!!!

I remember when 1024 by 768 pixels at 256 (i.e. 8-bit) colour was costing
us over $80,000 U.S. and Now I'm working at 1920 by 1200 pixels
at 64 bit colour and it cost me only $600. I also remember having to
lift a 90 lbs monitor onto desks which was no fun for me....
My new 30" monitor is going to be 2500+ by 1600 pixels and
with a lot more horsepower than MANY of
those early workstations combined!

I'll throw THIS TIDBIT out there though, I DISTINCTLY remember
going to a computer demonstration in 1979 (when I was 9 YEARS
OLD!) where a Commodore PET computer was doing full blown colour
raster imaging using an unusual black-box add-on that a computer scientist
(didn't know what that was at the time) at the demo had said was the most
powerful imaging system on Earth and that many important people were
using it right now! I do remember the ego-fed demeanor and the obvious
pride in those statements but I didn't recognize at the time what
it all meant, just that it was important.

=====
EDIT: FURTHER CLARIFICATION:

I should also note that it was NOT the Commodore PET computer
that was doing the processing but rather a black-curtained box
about the size of an 80 litre (20 gallon) cooler which was
manipulating the first ever high-resolution bitmap of an
aerial photograph I had ever seen AND it was also drawing
vector-based graphics ON TOP of the bitmap.

The Commodore PET computer was used as a front end to input
commands and issue instructions to what in later years
I realized was a multi-CPU raster processor attached to
a high-resolution VERY LARGE ALMOST-SQUARE CRT monitor
of unknown make (possibly Evans & Sutherland?).

I should also note that I have found patents that reference
ultra high resolution raster scanning displays that were
filed as early as 1970 !!!!!

See this link:

www.freepatentsonline.com...

=====

Looking back, I remember that the resolution was stated to be 1k+ by 1k+
pixels (i.e. 1000+ by 1000+ pixels) and I have come to realize that at the
time, I had probably viewed the world's highest resolution colour computer
monitor YEARS BEFORE such displays became common place.

So I am inclined to believe that at least since 1978, we have had raster
scanning systems in the white-budget world of AT LEAST 1000 by 1000
pixels and probably DOUBLE THAT within the Black Budget world!

My belief in those memories is bolstered by the fact that 1000+ lines of
resolution were being worked on by the Japanese and American television
industry as early as 1968 with NHK Japan's analog-based MUSE HDTV
system.

Although I cannot remember the specific words or the exact place or time
or the name of the computer scientist, I DO remember those particular
words "Most Powerful imaging system on Earth" and for some reason
I KNEW that this was IMPORTANT and that I needed to PAY ATTENTION!

I personally know of and have SEEN monitor resolutions of greater than
100,000 by 100,000 pixels using multiple MATCHED projection systems
fed by distributed-image processing systems so I would NOT
be surprised at the advances in imaging technology and I would ALSO
NOT be surprised at what could have been possible as early
as the late 1960's!

I have also seen a DEMO of one of the FIRST RGB laser projection systems
that had an ultra-sharp, very colourful resolution of over 5000 lines at
24-bit colour and was told it could be easily expanded to many
MILLIONS of lines if enough frame-buffer memory and bandwidth was
available to drive the RGB lasers and this was in 1996!

[edit on 30-9-2008 by StargateSG7]

[edit on 30-9-2008 by StargateSG7]

Originally posted by zorgon...MAKE THEM AVAILABLE TO THE TAXPAYERS

Yes, but we need to ask ourselves if ATS is the best place to do that, mm?

I sent a form into our group that you can forward to interested parties. That is one way.

98 flags after only 16 pages is a pretty big roar. If everyone here could help get it down to a low rumble it will be very much appreciated by said interested parties.

You know. Run silent, run deep.

reply to post by zorgon


===
This Quote:

Seems you are already known to the team Mr Henry A. Eckstein

=====

Hmm....Which team per chance do YOU mean...???

Although I am NOT WELL KNOWN as far as I know in any corridor of power,
I do have some afficionados in the computer graphics realm who seem
to like my work thus I would be VERY INTERESTED to find out if
my very tiny sphere of influence has possibly expanded to realms
both flattering and/or sinister!

Perhaps you could U2U me as to whom I should be sucking up to
or whom I should be wary of.... :-)

Just some more info regarding the alleged McDonald's photos I see.

I think the 2 Inch Tape machines are Ampex TBM (Terabit Memory)
data tape recorders originally introduced in 1970 at one terabit
or 128 Gigabyte capacity which is a lot even today.

Their 1972 machines could do 3 Terabits (or 384 Gigabytes)
which IS still a lot of data even today.

I am NOT SURE but I think (not truly sure) that the TBM machines
used Pulse Coded Modulation at a density of 500+ tracks per inch
which was INCREDIBLE at that time to store the digital data.
Based upon what I see in the photos at the beginning of the thread,
the machines look in half decent shape and use a 4-head
helical scan to record the video data via a Slow-Scan process
which was about 10 frames per second.

The interesting thing is that the Apollo 11 Moon Landing
and previous missions pre-dated the Ampex TBM tape machine
so I wonder what format was used for those missions...thus I think
the tapes we see in the photos are either Post-1970
or the recorders seen in the photos are backwards compatible
with the Ampex AVR/VR-3000/TM-7 Series recorders used pre-1970.

In the photo I can tell that the monitor is probably a
Sony PVM or BVM series CRT monitor and I see some HP/Tektronix/Agilent
Waveform monitors/vectorscopes/Oscilliscopes in the Racks
and possibly a Philips Waveform monitor on the floor set
at an angle on a pedastal.

The things on the top of the rack are either Timecode readers
or Video Timebase Correctors for stabilizing the video output
or for adding Timecode to the output video streams and/or
for adjusting video level outputs.

All I can say is that it's a gigantic mess and THERE IS DEFINITELY
A BETTER WAY - It's called OPTICAL SCANNING using microscopes,
digital RGB Progressive scan CCD cameras, automated bitmap stitching,
and specialized multi-processing OCR-style waveform/PCM reconstruction
software to speed up the conversion process AND improve quality which
can be output to 4:4:4:4 Digital RGB Video at SDTV or HDTV resolutions.

For those in the know or for Mr. Wingo's interest,
please do email me at [email protected] or phone me
at 604-253-3990 for more detailed info....

thanks

Henry A. Eckstein
aka ATS USer: StargateSG7


[edit on 30-9-2008 by StargateSG7]

[edit on 30-9-2008 by StargateSG7]

This McDonalds is at Ames Research Center, right? You should start contacting the public affairs people there. Of course they won't answer any questions bcause they are part of the coverup but if enough people demand to know what is going on maybe others will come forth and tell us what is really going on in their and why things are being hidden from public view. Go to their webpage here www.nasa.gov...

A tad off topic for the current discussion, but relevant to the thread - I just discovered this thread today and the Youtube video is gone and when I attempt to login to the Flickr page, I don't have permission to the pics.

Please forgive me, as 16 pages is a lot to read through, did something happen that the pictures were taken down?

reply to post by BRQuick


nice!!! wonder what that cross ( + ) is doing 3 cm under the big crater on top of the picture...

reply to post by skekke


i can answer this one (i think). that's a registration mark. if you saw more of width or length of the image, you'd see more of them. they are part of the camera's overlay of the film. it's like a grid and that's one of the intersections of the overlay...or something like that.

Originally posted by MrPenny

It would be different if Mr. Wingo had signed some sort of release permitting the publication of his image and words. Obviously, that was not obtained and he exercised his rights as a citizen.

For Human sake go and Bleed somewhere else man, bleeding heart.

"obtained", A I found this, My Right says go Now.
A "citizen" from WHERE Earth? WE are moving On now.
_____________________________________________

A "zorgon" I don't know how to reach you? I can't PM you ??
because I don't go Up tha ladder negative points LOL.

I've got more Data/Contact on the machine,seems unheard off especially by the RPM's I'm hearing.

Here's part of my response:

They normally had 8 tracks and also recorded to a special standard (which I forget - Google it) developed by Ampex and NASA for the space programme. Typically the transport used one inch tape (70mm????) and had speeds of between 15/16th and 60 inches per second. Actually at 60 IPS you can record monochrome video pictures (at poor resolution) but I don't think that NASA did this. They didn't have high definition video in those days and used (as I understand it - the SMPTE journal has information on it) a combination of something like a still camera and a videcon pick up tube at the focal plane. Apparently they put a shutter in front of a videcon tube and would quickly expose a single image on it. Because of the inherent image lag of the tube they would have enough time to fairly slowly scan the target and be able to make an analogue recording on one of these instrumentation recorders. They could have probably used an audio recorder! In fact on one of their space probe camera systems the shutter was designed by a certain Mr Bolsey who once designed the Bolex cine camera and the Alpa still camera... I suppose they played the signal back onto a long persistence tube and photographed it. They might even have used a tube with a fibre optic faceplate and taken a contact print.

Also I'm going to bring this guy into ATS he's guna Love this LOL

Regards
Zelong.

[edit on 30/9/08 by Zelong]

Originally posted by Zelong
A "zorgon" I don't know how to reach you?

Yup negative points makes it hard to send PM's

[email protected] will work... just put ATS in the subject and the filters will redirect you