The cross a false idol???

Originally posted by ScienceDada

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
....I don't worship the flag of the United States either.

The flag analogy is probably the best example. Thank you for that input.

I will add that if one goes beyond that, it does become idolatry. The same can be said of the scriptures. Protestants don't have a problem with "worshiping" the Bible, and it really is no different. They get up at arms if it is called worship, and vehemently deny it, only to turn around and make the same counter-claims toward the cross or icons.

So, to drive the point home... the Bible, the cross, or an icon can all become idols, just as the brass serpent did for Israel. But in the proper context, they are not.

I don't agree with your statement about the Bible. I'm a protestant. I believe the Bible is the Word of God. I also believe the Word became flesh and died on the cross some 2008 years ago. I do not worship my Bible, heck, it sits on the back of my toilet, I read it in the bathtub or whenever I plan on sitting for an extended amount of time.

I write in it, I fold pages over, not nearly what one would do if they thought it were divine. I most certainly do not worship the word of God, if anything, I view it as a college textbook. Something I need to study. Which denomination of protestants worship the Bible?? I've never met any Christian who did so.

Man, I'm glad I took the time to read your entire post Nontur.

I was almost going to jump on you but you of course was saying exactly what I was saying. I wish I would have thought about the text book idea. Very good.

Any protestant want to inform us that they worship the Bible?

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Back to Lutheran's.....worshipping the Bible......what does that mean to you? Who worships the Bible? Do you know what worship means?

Wow... that was not an attack on Lutherans. Actually, it is directed more toward die-hard Calvinists, and more generally to Fundamentalists in general.

Protestant is a very broad term because those who follow Reformation principles are a very diverse, non-homogeneous group. Lutherans are actually a small portion of that pie.

My point was that may who hold to the Sola Scriptura give more reverence or "worship" to the scriptures than they often do to God himself. By interpreting the scriptures in their own ways, they mold God and His words to their own notion of who He is, thereby making a false God. Hence idolatry, and the scriptures become the object of worship. And when this point is raised, it is vehemently denied. Yet conversely, they equally vehemently attack the cross or icons as idols. In the process they must do cognitive back-flips to reconcile phenomena like the brazen serpent, thereby condemning those who are doing their best to live in a holy way.

Please don't take it as an attack on Lutherans, or Roman Catholics, or Eastern Orthodox, Episcopalians, Anabaptists, etc., per se.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Any protestant want to inform us that they worship the Bible?

No Protestant will admit it, just as a Roman Catholic or and Eastern Orthodox wouldn't admit that venerating the cross is idolatry, whether it were or were not. Because Christians of any persuasion know that idolatry is forbidden.

Yet, it happens. I have seen it happen.

the cross a false idol?

Well technically.

So is the virgin mary

etc...

reply to post by ScienceDada


there are no relics or idols in the worship of Christ. Church as we have it is not Biblical full stop. a sign used only as an identity is not a relic/idol

this comes when it used in worship, such as something that concentrates your focus or a belief that some power entity gateway etc exists within.

then you can go to the other extreme and worship the "item" as a deity

personally its a fine line between identity and icon and my belief is that the cross should not be used

anyway the short answer is that there no true Idols in Christianity. IMHO

david

reply to post by ScienceDada



I often wonder why it is said the Christians worship the Bible, cant say for everyone but i certainly do not. It holds gods plan and history and its word shows me how to be as a child of God.

Its a source of wisdom and instruction and it is vital reading for any Christian that wants to get to know the Lord

i think this importance is misinterpreted as worship. This would clearly be wrong.

david

reply to post by ScienceDada

My point was that may who hold to the Sola Scriptura give more reverence or "worship" to the scriptures than they often do to God himself. By interpreting the scriptures in their own ways, they mold God and His words to their own notion of who He is, thereby making a false God. Hence idolatry, and the scriptures become the object of worship. And when this point is raised, it is vehemently denied. Yet conversely, they equally vehemently attack the cross or icons as idols. In the process they must do cognitive back-flips to reconcile phenomena like the brazen serpent, thereby condemning those who are doing their best to live in a holy way.

Excellent observations!

Some Christians are so blind to what they are doing and,as you said,they vehemently deny it when you bring it up.But for many i'm sure thats because they don't even realize it or its because its the only message they've ever known,preached to them by their church leaders.

reply to post by drevill

I often wonder why it is said the Christians worship the Bible, cant say for everyone but i certainly do not. It holds gods plan and history and its word shows me how to be as a child of God.

If you look at what people have said,you will see that the word some is used in reference to Christians,not all.

Some Christians worship in a manner contradictory to the teachings of the Bible.

reply to post by jakyll


i was aware of that

but thanks

david

If you worship the cross, it becomes an idol. If the cross becomes your god, then it becomes an idol. As a symbol, not so much. It's all about personal intention. God knows your heart.

[edit on 1-10-2008 by freedom2]

I agree with the last post that 'God knows your heart'

But in a church, which is meant to be a sacred place, I dont think there should be any imagery with it. No cross, no statue of the Virgin mary ect...

A church should be built of wood because wood (trees) contain life. I remember reading somewhere in the Bible tha wood was a rightous material because it has life and where there is life, God can dwell within.

A church should have all natural materials within.

Wearing a cross necklace, I see a different. Its not an image in a church, its a symbol of your faith, your personal beliefs. I knew a woman that had her home filled with statues of the Virin Mary, it gave me the creeps personally.

When one frees themselves from the false paradigm structure of a belief in a god or in gods, and free oneself from mythology in general it's as though the blinders are finally taken off and eye sight is restored again.

From this vantage point then, the cross is nothing more than a symbol used by the control apparatus for political reasons that represents oppression, violence, death, retribution and a whole series of very low vibration negativity.

Why subject oneself to a symptom of great illness? Free yourself from the madness!

The false idol is image/name. It can be the cross, it can be Jesus himself. If you are following the symbolism and such, then you are worshiping a false idol.

If you belong to the church about Jesus, then you are worshiping a false idol. It is the religion OF Jesus that is not worshiping a false idol. And btw, you can be worshiping false idols even if you are against a false idol that someone else is worshiping.

Take a look at Matthew 7.

www.biblegateway.com...

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

So when someone is going around doing things "In Jesus name", then you know right away they are worshiping a false idol.

When you look at moses and the people worshipping the bull. It wasn't just the bull that was the false idol, the bull was of the previous age. It was that they were worshiping the image of the age, rather than the message.

And that is the ball game. They take the good message, throw symbolism on it and lead people around with the symbolism, doing the exact things that go against the good message. And it's not just with religion that it happens, it's most everything. Look at the USA, founded on good things like freedom and liberty, and they wave the flag and people follow. But if you actually bring up the things it was founded on, then you are scolded as unpatriotic. Same thing in religon, point out they are doing against the image, and you are a heretic.

reply to post by bugs_n_recovery


bugs watch the discover prophecy series for the answer to all your questions and more. There are those of us who live by faith alone, but take joy in keeping God's commandments.

www.theloudcry.net...

sigh...the cross, pictures of the saints and all that other stuff is cassified as an idol. u may hate hearing this but its the truth. i am right and all u other people r wrong. god only want us to spread the message of him, pray and whorship him. not build churchs and all that other crap.

Hey,

I wouldn't get myself to worked up about wearing a cross around your neck. It is a nice symbol and it does give the wearer a certain kind of peace. I think you are not worshiping the cross. You are just stating to others that you are a Christian. That's all, and I think God will not judge you for that.

Peace and Love,
Grandma

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
the cross a false idol?

Well technically.

So is the virgin mary

etc...

Wow, may God bless one who's eyes are open to the false religion that has flooded this earth, and carries so many into destruction......

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments

www.biblegateway.com...

Why dose the cross have to be a false idol !

The cross is only a false idol if we make it into one.

Is it wrong to use the cross if it can remind us of Jesus and who he was!

Or is it wrong if you only pay attention to the meaning of the cross and not Jesus. Whats should we focus on ?

It's not just the cross. It's the statues of Mary, etc. All false idols in my book.

Just brings me back to the basic truth of the religous. As long as they do it, it is ok, but when others do it, it is a huge sin.