It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The cross a false idol???

page: 3
3
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 10:50 PM
link   
reply to post by justamomma
 


Momma, you said of the cross, "It doesn't represent victory over death".

Who claimed it did? Can you copy/paste where you read that claim you refuted with your opinion? I'm curious to see when you were led to believe someone claimed the cross was a symbol that "represent(ed) victory over death".




posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 10:52 PM
link   
reply to post by justamomma
 





I apologize for being the only one to take the time to acknowledge your 2nd question which didn't seem to be specifically asked of anyone, but of all in general. Was just trying to be kind by acknowledging it.


Okay then, star for you!



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 10:56 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I never claimed once that you said it and I am not sure why you are insisting on proving something I am not arguing with you on. I was simply replying off of a post made by you to me. I was sharing my views and not so much trying to knock yours, ok? ok.


I am not really feeling the love of Christ through your posts right now



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 10:59 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I grew up in a Baptist church.
There, we all worshipped the shape of a mortal, and the cross he died on. We prayed to him and through him for our forgiveness as though he were a god.
Forgiveness can only come from God.
When our Messiah does come, we will not be required to worship him, because he will be mortal. Instead he will open our minds so that we can all see, and worship the one true God in Heaven.

That's the conclusion I've come to, as a result of the path I myself taken.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 11:15 PM
link   
I just wanna say thanks you guyz/galz but it seems to be becoming personal and while that is expected i would like more debate the personal ridicule? thank you, and as far as christians worship[ing false idols ...the catholics worship all the saints and mary more than Jesus himself ..I feel
I'm not degrading them its just something ive noticed.
4x4fun...I to was baptist (forced growing up) and it was all hell, fire and brimstone.. but now I feel I'm leaning alot toward your beliefs, I would love to convo some more TY



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:14 AM
link   

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by NOTurTypicalWhere some see a 'symbol of death' others see a symbol of VICTORY


So, the cross, what brought death to him is a sign of victory? or was it that he showed something through death? If it is the latter, then it would seem ironic that christians wear the symbol of death rather than the symbol of life.. not sure what you could adopt as the symbol of life, but lets face it, the cross means one thing and that is death.


No, i believe you are missing the point. The cross is a symbol to remind us of what Christ did for us. All of us, not just the select few but every single human being on the planet. He died for our sins so that whosoever
believeth in Him will have eternal life. He paid the ultimate debt for all mankind so that you will not have to. A cross is a reminder to cast your
burdens upon Him who died on that cross, descended into hell, came back to earth, ascended into heaven. Therefore the victory is in the resurrection.


[edit on 27-9-2008 by paxnatus]



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:15 AM
link   

Originally posted by 4x4fun
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I grew up in a Baptist church.
There, we all worshipped the shape of a mortal, and the cross he died on. We prayed to him and through him for our forgiveness as though he were a god.
Forgiveness can only come from God.
When our Messiah does come, we will not be required to worship him, because he will be mortal. Instead he will open our minds so that we can all see, and worship the one true God in Heaven.

That's the conclusion I've come to, as a result of the path I myself taken.


That's odd for a baptist church, the Bible is very specific about worshiping any graven images, I've never seen anyone bow to a cross image, or pray to one.

And you realize there are several instances when people worshiped Jesus and he didn't tell them to stop. Numerous instances where Jesus forgave sins. Jesus claimed He was God numerous times.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:19 AM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


no he never claimed to be god, i think you need to also point out that is your opinion, as my opinion is jesus was not god. nor claimed to be.

not trying to attack you here, it just seems every post i read of yours, you strongly promote your opinion as correct.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:52 AM
link   
reply to post by bugs_n_recovery
 


I hope you one day pick up the Torah and begin to better understand what it tells you.
It wasn't until 2 years ago and after the third time reading it through, that it's message became clearer to me as I'm sure it might do for you, maybe even sooner than that.
If you don't actually get sick like I did, you will be mad, but you'll be happy at the same time, after that God will begin to guide you, the guilt of your rejection will fade, He will begin to reward you, you'll be very happy, have more energy, feel smarter than all your friends, and have a clearer mind.

Of course spell check doesn't hurt for backup. That I do not have.

I never told anyone online this before because it's really really weird, and this might even happen to you. I have been saving money for no reason I can think of and now after less than two years, I have enough money to go out and buy a new Jeep if I wanted to, and be even more the envy of all my trail blazing friends and aquaintences here in GA, TN, AL, FL and elsewhere, but I am not going to.
I know what that money is for now.
Soon, not sure how soon, but when I feel I'm being called, which I think will be soon, I will sell everything I own, including my Jeep, then I, and my daughter will buy a small apt. in Jerusalem if it's possible, but I feel it will be, and then I'll even get married for the first and last time and live happily ever after.


That's our plan.

After that, you can just call me 'fun' because there will be no more 4x4 anymore


I'm serious.

I really wish the best of luck to you.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

That's odd for a baptist church, the Bible is very specific about worshiping any graven images, I've never seen anyone bow to a cross image, or pray to one.


It is what is. Every church you go to has the image of a mortal mounted on a cross. It is the focus of their religion.



And you realize there are several instances when people worshiped Jesus and he didn't tell them to stop. Numerous instances where Jesus forgave sins. Jesus claimed He was God numerous times.


I don't see the big deal. If this is true so what, there were many like him who did the same thing. The Torah warned us these things would happen again and again.

I'm really not in a debating mood today, if that's what you would like to do then we could go on and on about all this but I don't want to, I just wanted to share my feelings and my experiences with you all here.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


no he never claimed to be god, i think you need to also point out that is your opinion, as my opinion is jesus was not god. nor claimed to be.

not trying to attack you here, it just seems every post i read of yours, you strongly promote your opinion as correct.


Well, that depends what Greek you want to go by. If you follow the minority text, that tells a different story, but the majority Greek text he claims is often.

Can I ask what Bible version you read?



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:45 AM
link   
reply to post by 4x4fun
 





Every church you go to has the image of a mortal mounted on a cross. It is the focus of their religion.


Catholics do that.... They for some reason want to place Christ back up on the cross. He's risen, and it's absolutely forbidden to make a graven image of Jesus, I don't have an idea why they would do that. My church doesn't. That's interesting.

Also, how do you reconcile the OT prophecy that the messiah would come before the 2nd Temple was destroyed?



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 02:07 AM
link   
Take a peek at the Messianic Prophecies 4 X 4:


www.thechristianrabbi.org...



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 02:58 AM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


i have a KJV and NIV.

i know many people reading different versions, it really doesnt depend on anything, its subject to interpretation.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 06:34 AM
link   
just to let you know that the word boycott comes from the rebellion in Ireland against the mark of the beast which was the RCC insistence that everyone had and venerated the cross/crucifix

not sure about dates. Circa 16th century

I dont think the symbol itself should have any place in worship etc.

david



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 07:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by 4x4fun
reply to post by jakyll
 
I do follow the Jewish faith. But I did not always do so.

I was led to bypass the Torah/Old Testament and go straight to the New Testament, and like many others, I called myself a Christian.

That was until I read, and understood the Torah.
Among many other things, the Torah taught me what worshiping Idols really meant by the many examples it used in its stories...


I can sympathize with you, but it is impossible to keep the Torah now. There is no tabernacle/temple, so the law cannot be kept. Any violation of the law is violating the whole law. The temple destruction in 70 C.E. was the turning point.

Also, as uncircumcised, the Old Covenant law does not apply to me. And even the prophets, like Isaiah, declared that the feasts and fasts were abominable to God. Why was that?



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 07:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


no he never claimed to be god, i think you need to also point out that is your opinion, as my opinion is jesus was not god. nor claimed to be.

not trying to attack you here, it just seems every post i read of yours, you strongly promote your opinion as correct.


Jesus did claim to be God. You just fail to see the significance of the text because it is removed from your everyday experience. His assertion "before Abraham was I am" was a very powerful statement, and they took up stones to kill him for blasphemy.

There were other places where he says it rather clearly too.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 07:33 AM
link   

Originally posted by ScienceDada
And even the prophets, like Isaiah, declared that the feasts and fasts were abominable to God. Why was that?


Please provide proof of this "statement"............

The cross is a false idol, as are most roman catholic "ideas" of worship.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 07:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by 4x4fun

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

That's odd for a baptist church, the Bible is very specific about worshiping any graven images, I've never seen anyone bow to a cross image, or pray to one.


It is what is. Every church you go to has the image of a mortal mounted on a cross. It is the focus of their religion.


It is not the image of a mortal. It is the image of a true immortal. It makes all the difference in the world.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 07:41 AM
link   
I have been giving this topic a lot of thought lately because of the battles I am going through about baptizing my son. I am starting to see things differently. For instance, as soon as you are born, you did something bad?!?! And we are suppose to kneel in front of a statue of a man bleeding from the head, hands, feet, and sides because he did it to save us.. It is starting to look like nothing more then a guilt trip IMO. Not to insult anyones beliefs. I AM NOT trying to do that.. at all. This is just how I am seeing things lately. My family is hardcore catholics from NJ. So they do not agree with me at all on this one.. One more thing that kinda bothers me is all the controversy about catholic priests. Why would I want to baptize my son into a religion where I can't even trust the men that are considered holy to do rigt by my son and keep their hands off!?

Sorry everyone.. I needed to get that off my chest. I am in the process of finding myself spiritually, emotionally, and physically and I could be a bit confused about some things, but this is just where I am right now. Great thread BTW!!



new topics

top topics



 
3
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join