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The cross a false idol???

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posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 06:30 PM
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"Your Jesus Christ was murdered on the symbol of both his science and his spirituality"

-Statement to Crichton E M Miller by Don Ajlehandro, Mayan Elder of Elders, Tenerife 1998


Im sure you will find that before we discuss it's worshiping, and idolarating the Cross, It is best first to know what is being worshiped?

As mentioned in some previous posts, the true history of the "Spiritual Cross" is within history well before Jesus.

It can be found as the symbol of life or the Ancient Indian reversed modern Swastica, in the tree of life from the original Jewish Torah, Egypt, Sumeria, the four seasons, fire, earth, air, water and also the astrological links.

You have to really understand that the "Cross" as a point of worship, significance or spirituality proceeds Christianity.

Jesus was crucified on a Cross and the Catholic Interpretation was then, as the same was done by the Nazi's, reversed the meaning of the Cross into Guilt, Pain , Suffering, therefore worshiping that and "feeling" "projection" of countless beings energy, concentration, and prayers to.

Prior to this the cross / original Swastika were symbols of Love, Power, Empress Symbol in Tarot, The Abundance of Nature and the Seasons.

They became symbols of idolatory, opposite to their original meaning, Totalitarianism of State, and Soul, Genocide & generations of "Guilty" Catholic's and Pedophelia.

See the Joker there, The one who's name I wont write speak? The god of Chaos, the Trickster?

Who or rather what would want the entire energy and feelings from a positive thing, to something reversed, to change the way most feel and worship their God? What would want that energy?

Jesus im sure if he lived as stated in some of the real, Lost Gospels would be horrified at the guilt felt by billions when they see a symbol he used to probably meditate on, or use in his spiritual practice in a "positive" way.

Anyhow I really really suggest that you visit this link and maybe your whole question on the "original" cross will be revealed, and its not mentioned in any of my 2c's above!

Njoy

The Real Cross

Elf

[edit on 26-9-2008 by MischeviousElf]




posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by bugs_n_recovery
Let me start by saying i do believe in god and consider mydelf a Christian.
That doesnt meen that I dont think or wonder or research all the time.
One of the things that has always worried me is that in the old testament it says do not worship false gods or idols. Now to play it safe(Im a pesimist) Ive often thought that the jews were the hight percentage of going to heaven lol (Your saying :::Christian huh)!!! but of all believers in God Islam, catholics/Christians , the Jews follow the "original" text the most seriously and correctly
so what if "Jesus" was not who he says he was, then Christians and believers of the cross(around my neck right now) have violated one of the biggest no no"s of gods laws..


Wait a second... there is a HUUUGE difference between wearing a cross on your neck, than praying to it, or worshiping it, or thinking the necklace has divine powers.

An enormous difference. Or do you know people who worship their cross necklace?



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
I have always wondered why a religion that claims to be about life is so obsessed with a symbol of death. could you have imagined if Jesus had been murdered on a guillotine? Would ppl wear guillotines around their necks? how ironic




Where some see a 'symbol of death' others see a symbol of VICTORY!




posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by bugs_n_recovery
 


I will say one thing here and im not a beliver. I was brought up to be a protestant by my grandfather who was part of the black walk.

I rejected religion because during my school years I was forced to partake in religious assemblies etc

I have my own view of what I believe is right and without going into that I want to say one thing to you.

Do not abandon your faith because if you are right you are one of the few these days that are true followers and if you are wrong you were still faithful to your cause which will gain respect if you are wrong.

I think that religion is a test of resolve rather than being right or wrong so go and be faithful and dont let your doubt creep you out because faithfulness is such a damn hard thing to find these days.

Thats my 2 cents



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 08:00 PM
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I've never understood why some Christians focus on the crucifying of Jesus.

Obviously it was a momentous event,but the story didn't end there did it!

His resurrection,ascending into heaven and returning again to continue ministering are just as important as his death;especially his resurrection.

Imagine Issac Newton was a god and people payed more attention to the apple than they did to the theory of gravity!

We have a similar situation here.

And with the image of Jesus on the cross many are keeping him in a perpetual state of death.







[edit on 26-9-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by 4x4fun
 





The New Testament in my view, is a book of pure Idol worship.


If you are Jewish or follow the Jewish faith then you're not going to see it any other way are you?

Jesus taught that those who believe should worship no one but God.But you know some Christians,they don't understand too well because they let leaders dictate for them and don't even read the bible for themselves.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypicalWhere some see a 'symbol of death' others see a symbol of VICTORY


So, the cross, what brought death to him is a sign of victory? or was it that he showed something through death? If it is the latter, then it would seem ironic that christians wear the symbol of death rather than the symbol of life.. not sure what you could adopt as the symbol of life, but lets face it, the cross means one thing and that is death.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by justamomma
 





So, the cross, what brought death to him is a sign of victory?


I think what NOTurTypical means is that it was a symbol of Christs victory over death.

Don't see how.All he did was die there,his victory over death took place at a different time and location.






[edit on 26-9-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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well thanks guyz Its nice to here from some christians(I think sometimes I get confused)lol, Some one earlier forvive for being lazy mentioned that "why dont we(christians) use like a open door osomething like that ...
GOOD point, as far as worshiping whats around my neck...
I dont worship the cross wich is why I started thios thread...
I do believe that Jesus Christ was the richest man ever created because his faith and the way he taught how people should live life to be as rich as he was in life.
I believe that if you live by Christs way to live you will be happy through out your life and be a positive person



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
I've never understood why some Christians focus on the crucifying of Jesus.

Obviously it was a momentous event,but the story didn't end there did it!

His resurrection,ascending into heaven and returning again to continue ministering are just as important as his death;especially his resurrection.

Imagine Issac Newton was a god and people payed more attention to the apple than they did to the theory of gravity!

We have a similar situation here.

And with the image of Jesus on the cross many are keeping him in a perpetual state of death.









I can answer...

Because his resurrection doesn't save us. His ascension to heaven doesn't save us. What does save us?

His Holy, blameless shed blood. That shed blood covers our sins. His sacrificial death covers our sins. The other things you mention that Christ did do are amazing, but those things we too shall do after we die.

Our sins can be forgiven TODAY... That is why the cross is so important, that cross is where satan lost, no longer are men bound to an eternity apart from God because of their sins.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by NOTurTypicalWhere some see a 'symbol of death' others see a symbol of VICTORY


So, the cross, what brought death to him is a sign of victory? or was it that he showed something through death? If it is the latter, then it would seem ironic that christians wear the symbol of death rather than the symbol of life.. not sure what you could adopt as the symbol of life, but lets face it, the cross means one thing and that is death.


I didn't disagree that the cross was a symbol of death, it is.

What I SAID was: "Where some people see a 'symbol of death' others see VICTORY."

Yes, the cross is a symbol of death, and that is precisely where the victory is, a blameless man suffering the penalty of death as payment for our sins.

That death was victory over sin and satan. Right at that very instant.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 





His Holy, blameless shed blood. That shed blood covers our sins. His sacrificial death covers our sins. The other things you mention that Christ did do are amazing, but those things we too shall do after we die.


I look at it this way.

His life shows us the way to salvation.
His death was a fulfillment of prophecy because he already took our sins upon him in the garden of Gethsemane.
His resurrection was the moment he defeated death,washed our sins away and shown us the way to eternal life.

As Paul said,

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain....17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1st Corinthians 15.







[edit on 26-9-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Yes, I remember how I was taught to think... I just disagreed. The cross is not only a symbol of jesus' death, but many men have died that horrible death.. how is that not sick to wear it around your neck or use it as a symbol of life? It doesn't represent victory over death when that is where he died, not where he conquered death? i could understand wearing the tomb as a symbol better than the cross. Just being honest in my non christian view.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Yes, I remember how I was taught to think... I just disagreed. The cross is not only a symbol of jesus' death, but many men have died that horrible death.. how is that not sick to wear it around your neck or use it as a symbol of life? It doesn't represent victory over death when that is where he died, not where he conquered death? i could understand wearing the tomb as a symbol better than the cross. Just being honest in my non christian view.


Why did you quote me, then pretend to argue against me claiming the cross was a 'victory over death'? Christ's victory over death happened 3 DAYS LATER in the garden tomb.



I'll say it a 3rd time:

"His death and shed blood on the cross:

WAS

A

VICTORY

OVER

SIN."

God demands the shed innocent/blameless blood for the remission of sins. Christ's death was a VICTORY over our sins, His shed blood covers/washes away the sins of those who believe on Him.

Please stop putting words into my mouth, there is no way to carry on a debate if one person continues to misrepresent the other person's statements.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 09:25 PM
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Secondly... I haven't had my original Q answered...

Who is worshiping/praying to a cross? I've never seen anyone pray to a cross, worship a cross, or have I ever heard someone say that a cross is divine.

Where does this idea come from that people worship the cross???




posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I didn't quote you.. I replied to you
.

As far as your second question, I personally could not answer that as I was never taught and never have worshipped the cross an idol. I see that in certain sects of christianity, but certainly not all. I just see it as a symbol and disagree with the how it is being used as a symbol. My opinion. Not based on you particularly, but a general conclusion.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I didn't quote you.. I replied to you
.

As far as your second question, I personally could not answer that as I was never taught and never have worshipped the cross an idol. I see that in certain sects of christianity, but certainly not all. I just see it as a symbol and disagree with the how it is being used as a symbol. My opinion. Not based on you particularly, but a general conclusion.


You're right, you replied to me. But I took offense to you replying to me and stating this in your reply:

"It doesn't represent victory over death when that is where he died.."

Of course it doesn't represent a victory over death, and I never claimed that. I stated that the cross is a symbol of His death being our victory over our sins because of His innocent blood being shed. That is why I love the cross, without His shed blood and death upon it I'd still be a slave to my sins, I'd still have no way to reconcile myself to God. His shed blood and death on that cross bridged the gap between man and God that started in the garden, on that cross satan and sin was forever crushed. He took the sins of all men upon himself, and died as payment for them all. God's fury was satisfied on that cross with the death of His innocent and blameless Son.

That cross IS the symbol of victory.

And my second Q wasn't posed to you momma, I didn't reply to you on that one, it was to the thread itself. Well, specifically the OP.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


I do follow the Jewish faith. But I did not always do so.

I was led to bypass the Torah/Old Testament and go straight to the New Testament, and like many others, I called myself a Christian.

That was until I read, and understood the Torah.
Among many other things, the Torah taught me what worshiping Idols really meant by the many examples it used in its stories. All of a sudden, one day it became clear to me that what it was telling me, could be, and should be applied it to the church, the cross, and mortals aswell. It actually made me sick, the more I understood and unravelled the deception that had taken me in for 30 some odd years.

I won't go into everything but I can say, It was, an awakening for me.
I hope others will be able to understand and experience the same thing I did, for themselves.

It wasn't easy, but today, I am 100% guilt free. Since I began this process, I feel better than I ever have before, I'm happier than I've ever been before, I make more money than I ever did before, and I'm more successfull than I ever though I would be.
I think it all had to do with the fact that my eyes have been open and have stopped worshipping Idols and have now focused my attention to God.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by 4x4fun
 


Which idols were you previously worshiping as a "Christian"? I'm not aware of any idols the Christian worships.

Unless you meant Catholic. Christians bow down to no graven image, Christians pray to no one other than God, and Christians worship nothing other than the Lord our God.

What was your previous "Christian" denomination? Some people who claim to be Christian do in fact worship/pray to images and idols. But by their practice, this cannot be possible.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Sucks that my opinion would be offensive to you. I don't find yours offensive so long as it is not imposed on me, which I have not seen you try to do. I have to say that it is one of the major turn offs to me how touchy christians get when someone opposes their view.

I apologize for being the only one to take the time to acknowledge your 2nd question which didn't seem to be specifically asked of anyone, but of all in general. Was just trying to be kind by acknowledging it.



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