US agrees to Wall Street bail-out!

reply to post by carewemust


We haven't been heard by our leaders. Though that's a nice way to think about it, isn't it?

And I am glad it's not going to happen (yet), but sad that McCain won't be at the debates... Chicken poop that he is.

We are being manipulated again.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

US agrees to Wall Street bail-out!

This sure is a misleading headline, I guess they're trying to convince the public that "everybody else" agrees with this bailout!

But the facts are that:

Only 28% Support Federal Bailout Plan

Most Americans are closely following news reports on the Bush Administration’s federal bailout plan for the country’s troubled economy, but just 28% support what has been proposed so far.

Over one-third of voters (37%) oppose the $700-billion plan, and nearly as many (35%) are undecided, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey taken Sunday night. Details of the plan were made public on Saturday.
******SKIP******
Among non-investors, only 15% support the plan, while 41% oppose it. A plurality of non-investors (43%) are not sure yet what they think of it

The US doesn't agree!

[edit on 9/25/2008 by Keyhole]

Originally posted by carewemust
The Bail-Out/Rescue deal seems to be coming apart at the seams
all of a sudden. We, the majority of the taxpayers are being
heard by our elected leaders. Excllent!!

BREAKING: ABC NEWS LINK:
abcnews.go.com...

-cwm

Yes, I saw this too, I certainly hope for ALL of our sakes that at LEAST, someone up there is truly watching out for our best interest.

There may be hope yet...


AB1

No, keyhole, the US doesn't agree, but that was the title of the BBC piece.

And now, not only don't the people of the US agree, after days of talks in Washington and the the legislators getting a plan that they were sure was going to pass, John McCain showed up in Washington, had a few meetings and all of a sudden the House Republicans say they aren't going to go for this deal. It's going to be days if they come to any agreement, if at all. And oh, darn. That means McCain won't "be able" to make it to the debate!

This is so transparent a stunt, I can't believe people are actually falling for it. But hey, those same people voted for George Bush. Twice. So maybe it's not so hard to believe.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

And I am glad it's not going to happen (yet), but sad that McCain won't be at the debates... Chicken poop that he is.

Yeah but look on the bright side Ben-Her...Obama just picked up Mississippi. Another red gone blue!!! Ha haa....well it's not official, but apparently a lot of Southerners who were planning on supporting McCain have suddenly had a turn of heart.

Just like dominos...one state at a time!

Ok, so most of us don't want this bailout package. McCain shows up, the package is delayed. Now we're mad at McCain?

Please explain. I'm not a McCain supporter, but his appearance actually sounds like good news if he helped to delay this "rush" aid package to bail out millionaires.

reply to post by AHostileMe


I agree the delay is a good thing, if, it means more scrutiny and thought to find if they really know it will work.

I think the politicking from McCain and politicizing of it is what gets us steamed. And of course his attempts to delay the debate.

Um, from what I've heard so for is that they have NOT come to an agreement.

Why we need this attempt at a bailout

And another one bites the dust...........

Washington Mutual assets sold to JPMorgan Chase as FDIC takes over!!!

Stockholders again get nothing(or next to it).

So now its...Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Lehman, AIG and now WAMU.......no bailout??? Who's next?? Morgan and Goldman and GE??? GM, Ford..............

Why I believe this bailout bill must be passed in Paulson's form:

I know the majority of this country believes this is Wall Street being bailed out by Main Street, but I believe that the disarray that would be caused by not "setting up" this bailout plan would be far more detrimental than the $ 700 Billion being "used" to facilitate the plan.

If anything the bailout provides for a "timeout" of sorts to help us get our house in order

...to help people stay in their homes by working with them and their ability to pay rather than to foreclose.
...to at least temporarily stop more financial institutions from going under and causing people to lose their jobs, savings, their equity, their retirement money, their ability to pay for or borrow for college.........their groceries and heat!!!
...to keep the revenues for municipalities and the federal government coming in to pay for police, fire, roadwork, SCHOOLS!!!

There is no guarantee that this plan will work, but their are some pretty smart people who have come up with it in Paulson and Bernanke. Bill Gross the "Bond King" from PIMCO has offered to run it free of charge!!!
(He and Warren Buffet believe this plan could actually end up with a profit!!!)

The plan does not call for "pissing away" 700 Billion!!!

The most important part of the plan in its initial stage will be the perception and hope that things can work out ok. A timeout from the freaking and panic that is beginning to overcome us.

I don't love the bailout....I just think we need it.

It's not over till it's signed into law. If everyone in America gets the message we don't like it to their Congressperson, it can still be stopped cold or trimmed down to realistic proportions.

Every average American should immediately fax, call and email their Congressperson requesting that this bill is completely torpedoed. Please copy the directory below.
www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/congdir.tt


There are comic books that contain more words than the proposed bill, and equally bizarre and questionable fact scenarios. The complete bill can be read in two minutes at: www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/business/21draftcnd.html?ref=business

Allen H. Meltzer, Former Economic Adviser to President Reagan stated: "This is a scare tactic to try to do something that's in the private but not the public interest." We should listen to a wise man.
NY Times Sept. 23, 2008 See www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/23skeptics.html?scp=1&sq=Allen%20H.%20Meltzer&st=cse

In truth, most of us are not doing that well financially anyway, especially under this administration. If you are one of those who are, President Bush recently proclaimed that we are not in a recession anyway, so what's the problem?

This bill is a huge give away program to the private sector. When President Reagan's Former Economic Adviser says this is only a scare tactic, perhaps we ought to listen, and tune out our fears.

This bill is a product of Political Action Committees, and shamelessly asks that we underwrite the gambling of banks on No Document loans, No-Ratio mortgages, and Stated-Income loans.

The bill may cost $10,000.00 per taxpayer. The bill is comic book short but not at all funny.

The delay in passage is a credit to every American who has participated in calling for the bills defeat or revision. That can still happen. The very rich want for us to give up while they hurry this through. Let's all participate and make an effort to stall passage. If we don't hang together, we shall all surely hang separately.

Well I suppose since the rich bankers that overextended themselves got paid in a way through our tax dollars, that means we own part of their estate! Excellent! Once I lose my house, I can go shack up with them in one of their 25 bedroom mansions. And what, it only cost like $6,000? Good investment I'd say!

[edit on 25-9-2008 by ghaleon12]

Gee, Paulson, CEO of Goldman Sachs, on leave wants to bail out his buddies:

In making his push to administer the largest federal bailout of Wall Street in history, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is seeking unfettered authority. McClatchy poses the question today, “can you trust a Wall Street veteran with a Wall Street bailout?,” referring to Paulson, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs:
thinkprogress.org...

But the conflicts are also visible. Paulson has surrounded himself with former Goldman executives as he tries to navigate the domino-like collapse of several parts of the global financial market. And others have gone off to lead companies that could be among those that receive a bailout.

In late July, Paulson tapped Ken Wilson, one of Goldman’s most senior executives, to join him as an adviser on what to about problems in the U.S. and global banking sector. Paulson’s former assistant secretary, Robert Steel, left in July to become head of Wachovia, the Charlotte-based bank that has hundreds of millions of troubled mortgage loans on its books.

Goldman Sachs cashed in under Paulson, with earnings in 2005 of $5.6 billion; Paulson made more than $38 million that year. A 2005 annual report shows that “Goldman was still a significant player” in issuing mortgage bonds. The conflict of interest is increasingly clear today, as Bloomberg reports that “Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley may be among the biggest beneficiaries” of Paulson’s bailout plan:

Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley may be among the biggest beneficiaries of the $700 billion U.S. plan to buy assets from financial companies while many banks see limited aid, according to Bank of America Corp.

“Its benefits, in its current form, will be largely limited to investment banks and other banks that have aggressively written down the value of their holdings and have already recognized the attendant capital impairment,” Jeffrey Rosenberg, Bank of America’s head of credit strategy research, wrote in a report today, without identifying particular investment banks.”

The conflict of interest provides all the more reason for the bailout legislation in Congress to have more stringent oversight that the administration opposes.

The Wonk Room notes six months ago, Paulson claimed, “our banks and investment banks, are strong.”

He joined Goldman Sachs in 1974, working in the firm's Chicago office. He became a partner in 1982. From 1983 until 1988, Paulson led the Investment Banking group for the Midwest Region, and became managing partner of the Chicago office in 1988. From 1990 to November 1994, he was co-head of Investment Banking, then, Chief Operating Officer from December 1994 to June 1998;[8] eventually succeeding Jon Corzine (now Governor of New Jersey) as its chief executive. His compensation package, according to reports, was US$37 million in 2005, and US$16.4 million projected for 2006.[9] His net worth has been estimated at over US$700 million.[9] Paulson has personally built close relations with China during his career. In July 2008 it was reported by The Daily Telegraph that: "Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson has intimate relations with the Chinese elite, dating from his days at Goldman Sachs when he visited the country more than 70 times."[10]

Of course, Paulson is fighting efforts to have transparency in the bailout bill. He's afraid it will uncover his rather questionable activities at Goldman Sachs.

By the way, if you have ANY doubt that Goldman Sachs controls the US financial system, there is this:

Paulson's three immediate predecessors as CEO of Goldman Sachs — Jon Corzine, Stephen Friedman, and Robert Rubin — each left the company to serve in government: Corzine as a U.S. Senator (later Governor of New Jersey), Friedman as chairman of the National Economic Council (later chairman of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board), and Rubin as both chairman of the NEC and later Treasury Secretary under President Bill Clinton.[18

en.wikipedia.org...

So Clinton's Treasury Secretary, Rubin was CEO of Goldman Sachs, and Bush's Treasury Secretary. was CEO of Goldman Sachs.
Gee, see a pattern developing here?

So, maybe the fact that only 28% of Americans support the bailout indicates that Americans are smarter than some people give them credit for.
Maybe, just maybe, Americans are beginning to see what a sham and scam is being perpetrated upon them.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


i see where you're coming from i really hope that this whole mess will finally give some of those ignorant people a good enough reason to open their eyes and see what is really going on around them

If anything the bailout provides for a "timeout" of sorts to help us get our house in order

Until the next bank or investment company or car manufacturer or [insert big corporation here] fails, then we have to bail them out. Car manufacturers are already putting their hands out, and Congress has already promised them $25 billion.

If you haven't noticed, the Federal Reserve has been "patching" things for several years now by lowering interest rates, injecting billions into the economy, bailing out investment companies and printing more money.

All this will do, like everything else in the past, is temporarily fix the problem. In a few weeks, we'll be clamoring for something else to save the economy...and then something else...and then something else, until - eventually - the economic damn bursts.

It's the equivalent of putting a band-aid on a cut that runs from your knee to your foot. Sure, it might stop some blood from coming out, but you're still going to bleed to death.

There is no guarantee that this plan will work, but their are some pretty smart people who have come up with it in Paulson and Bernanke.

It won't work. Economists, professors, analysts, former Presidential Candidates and even laymen from around the world have said it won't work. Heck, even the average American knows it won't work. Yet, Bush, Paulson and Bernanke are still pushing for it. Makes you wonder if they really ARE the "smart people" (of course, you could also say that Paulson has a lot to gain from it, but that's another story).

The plan does not call for "pissing away" 700 Billion!!!

The problem is is that we DON'T HAVE 700 Billion dollars. So, what the Treasury will do is print more money, which in turn will devalue the dollar more (although I really don't think it can be devalued much more), which in turn will hurt the economy more.

I don't love the bailout....I just think we need it.

See all of the above.

Oh, and for the record, it's going to cost more than $700 Billion. A LOT more.

Heck, if you take the $700 billion, tack on what's already been given out, and add the $25 billion for auto makers, you're already at over a TRILLION dollars. And some analysts expect it to cost upwards of $4 to $5 trillion dollars. Again, that's money we DO NOT HAVE.

I agree,

I had taken the time first ever in 38 years to email a few reps and congress members on how I feel. This wont work, it is just buying time.
We can cut capital gains taxes, slash income taxes, and offer refinancing deals to home owners. Thats where we need to start to fix this.

Then we go after the greed that let this happen. Change the laws!

The more money they keep printing 'out of thin air' has a direct effect on our savings as it decreases the value of our money. It's theft, plain and simple. Just like taxes, except with taxes you get the illusion of choice (it's voluntary but if you don't pay, you go to jail).

Tea party anyone?

I've also contacted the congress members for my district and let them know what I felt about this sham proposal. I've only contacted them maybe 2 other times in over 30 years. I highly recommend everyone follow the previous posters links to locate your congress person and you can easily send them an email directly from their site thru a form.
Let them know you don't support this BS!
We can hope flooding them all with our opinion on how the plan is just wrong in every way might make a difference!

Wamu Failed about an hour ago

Contact your Rep or Congress person here

its that easy and drop an email as simple as "don't vote for it" or "vote for it"

We are not alone, 1,000s of people are emailing faxing and voicing their opinions!

This is working. The news outlets are reporting that it's about 99% of people voiceing a no go on the bill. The politicians are really listening to this. This might be one of the greatest tests of our democracy even though it may be tough times ahead for all of us. It has to stop at some point. We just cannot go on with this type of spending war and economic suicide for the middle class any longer!


[edit on 26-9-2008 by IntelRetard]

[edit on 26-9-2008 by IntelRetard]

If this really did go through then George Bailey took that raise & bonus from Potter and the bank & trust(us) is dead. They will now be able to move us all to Potter's slum. Rise up in anger while there is still time-banish the Federal(not)Reserve(no dollars for you) now-storm their building with torches if thats what it takes(but spare the $100 million of artwork )
MorganChase alone has at least $90 Trillion in bad derivitives and only 100 million in real assets so if you think this deal ends at $700B then you haven't been listening to those who know on ATS.This deal "cannot be reviewed by any court of law".We just got sold a lemon by the used-car salesmen and they repealed the "lemon law".

We are so freaking doomed(Mogambo)

[edit on 26-9-2008 by seabisquit]