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An Endorsement for Socialism

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posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:20 AM
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"Socialism is the only route to the salvation of the world."


Not exactly a smashing endorsement in my opinion by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez .

Why is it that all of our enemies agree with and support Obamas socialist ideas, and our allies support and agree with McCain?

Seems a bit....off.

Full Article




posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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Which allies support McCain exactly? Israel? Georgia?

The last I heard pretty much the entire world supports Obama, with the exception of our military puppets.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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I think there is a strong possibility that alot of US folks still think socialism = communism since the cold war with Russia.

Actually a society that takes care of all its people is not that bad, contrary to popular belief. If its every man for himself, you get high crime rates and a violent society by default.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by nyk537
 


Are you really choosing NOW to start calling the Dems "socialists"? NOW, when the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is about to spend TRILLIONS of dollars bailing out PRIVATE institutions? NOW,when McCain is crying for this deal to pass?



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:39 AM
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I would support a socialist america. I voted for James Harris many times. how many of you even know who he is. I do like Ron Paul alot these days tho....



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by TruthWithin
 


I didn't make any mention of Democrats, only a passing reference to some of Obama's policies.

Interesting you took it that way though.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by nyk537
 


Right... so your thread titled, "An Endorsement for Socialism", in which you say "Why is it that all of our enemies agree with and support Obamas socialist ideas?".

And this isn't at all meant to suggest that the Dems have a socialist agenda?



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:54 AM
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No. It's meant to suggest that Obama supports some policies that I feel to be socialist.

I'm not making any generalizations about Democrats.

Clear enough now?



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by nyk537
No. It's meant to suggest that Obama supports some policies that I feel to be socialist.

I'm not making any generalizations about Democrats.

Clear enough now?


No, not clear at all.

IF this thread were to discuss some Obama policies you "feel are socialist", then so be it. Let's talk about the policies, but to throw in a blanket statement followed with a rhetorical question about socialism to point and suggest that Obama is a socialist, is POLITICAL BAITING.

You wanna talk policies? Let's talk policies.

I got a real doozy of a Socialist policy coming out of the Republican White House right now that will dump trillions of tax payer dollars into private institutions.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 12:04 PM
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You're absolutely right. The republicans are trying to push this thing through, same as the democrats are.

I'm not trying to make this a partisan issue or thread though, you are. Making mention that I feel some of Obama's policies are socialist says nothing about the democrat party itself. I don't even want to discuss this in this thread.

The thread OP is about Chavez remarks on socialism. I made a passing reference to it's applications in regards to Obama and McCain. Let's drop this and move on to discussing the topic at hand.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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Copernicus is right... The bailout is is more similar to communism that socialism.. not because it will represent the government taking care of some private banks companies, whatever (that can be indeed socialism), but because it doesnt impose REAL limits.. during 2 year period they can buy whatever company they want (that's more like communism)..

Socialism is not a bad thing in it.. it is only bad if it is desvirtuated.. like capitalism


And about chavez.. he's not finishing off capitalism in venezuela.. he just nationalized some companies that are essential to the country development.. there is still PRIVATE capitalism there..

I live in portugal, that its still sort of a socialist country (we have a public healthcare and education system) and we live very well thank you
(of course we have some problems, every country do, but i think we are more free here than you in usa)
As a matter of fact, your poisoned capitalism system can have very negative impacts in our "good and happy" socialist country..

Thats right Copernicus..
people real need to learn to distinct between socialism and communism

Edited to add this simple question -> Would you be as angry as you are now if this bail out law was just for this precise situation (Lehman Brothers, AIG) and not saying that it is valid for a 2 year period time, with a limit of 700 whatever ANY GIVEN TIME, and with no appeal from court, etc..?

Because if you wouldnt be as angry.. then you just transformed yourself into a socialist


[edit on 25-9-2008 by Picao84]



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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Socialism is the only system in the world where losers can pretent to be winners...



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by GrndLkNatv
 


Hmm.. can you elaborate on it please? Its very easy to say things without proper knowledge..


Just edited to add one more thing:

We, portugal, with our socialist country/government that REALLY care not only about its people, but also about the environment where we live, are WELL advanced in Renewable Energy usage (you want or not, we will be one of the most important countries in world in a few years, in this area, so im not seeing where we are losers) while you are still a lot dependent on oil derived fuels and ruining your economy.. but yeah.. you are the winner ones


With the pure capitalism running free, we would only be engaging in renewals next to oil ending.. Thats where a socialism system is good.. to foresee and take/force measures in advance of the market.. if it works alright of course..

[edit on 25-9-2008 by Picao84]

[edit on 25-9-2008 by Picao84]



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by nyk537
 



Officially the New Zealand government stance is that they will work with who is elected . However you don't need to be a genius to work out that behind closed doors both major party's would be in favour of McCain because he is less likely to be protectionist which would make Pacific Four Free Trade negations go a bit smoother . Besides your missing the point foreign leaders have no business in meddling in US domestic policy's and vice versa .



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by Picao84
reply to post by GrndLkNatv
 


Hmm.. can you elaborate on it please? Its very easy to say things without proper knowledge..


Just edited to add one more thing:

We, portugal, with our socialist country/government that REALLY care not only about its people, but also about the environment where we live, are WELL advanced in Renewable Energy usage (you want or not, we will be one of the most important countries in world in a few years, in this area, so im not seeing where we are losers) while you are still a lot dependent on oil derived fuels and ruining your economy.. but yeah.. you are the winner ones


With the pure capitalism running free, we would only be engaging in renewals next to oil ending.. Thats where a socialism system is good.. to foresee and take/force measures in advance of the market.. if it works alright of course..

[edit on 25-9-2008 by Picao84]

[edit on 25-9-2008 by Picao84]


Well, lets see: Wikipedia puts Portugals GDP at 1.9% in 2007, while America, even with the Socialist-caused Mortgage financial crisis, is 3.3% as of this day. The average income is only $22,277 and your public debt is 66% of GDP. Capitalist America on the other hand, has only about 4% of the population of the world, yet we produce 27% of the worlds GDP.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by zappafan1]



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 04:16 AM
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First we are a 10 million population country, while you have more than 300 million, you should be ashamed if your economic situation was not better than ours


Second we lived in dictature till 1974.. and it was a really bad dictature that didnt develop the country in any way.. so in more or less 30 years things could not have skyrocketed.. Of course our debt is higher.. we had start a fresh after it! Most of country didnt have neither water neither electricty network, where 100% now has..
Beyond this.. we have a higher debt but we dont pay for healthcare and education..

Third, economy is not what defines a country.. look at crime rates for instance.. USA has a crime rate of 21.1% while portugal has 15.5%www.nationmaster.com...
And NOBODY can enter my house without my autorization or a court autorization (look at your patriot act
)

Fourth, you may produce 27% of worlds GDP.. but i have a question to you.. You prefer shorter and great life.. or good and longer life? Because you economy is in shrambles precisely because of markets with next to none regulation.. In Portugal the markets have enough regulation and we NEVER had a crysis like yours..

Fifth.. i was talking about the future.. you can bet our economy will grow based on renewable energies.. we are developing it at a faster rate and we will (we already are) export them..

Sixth.. i know what im talking about.. i work in the strategic planning area, that its not only economic my friend.. the development of country can only be made and be "eternal" if we have the social, economic and environment aspects in count..

Quoting Albert Einstein: "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."

I rest my case.

[edit on 26-9-2008 by Picao84]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by Picao84
First we are a 10 million population country, while you have more than 300 million, you should be ashamed if your economic situation was not better than ours


Second we lived in dictature till 1974.. and it was a really bad dictature that didnt develop the country in any way.. so in more or less 30 years things could not have skyrocketed.. Of course our debt is higher.. we had start a fresh after it! Most of country didnt have neither water neither electricty network, where 100% now has..
Beyond this.. we have a higher debt but we dont pay for healthcare and education..

Third, economy is not what defines a country.. look at crime rates for instance.. USA has a crime rate of 21.1% while portugal has 15.5%www.nationmaster.com...
And NOBODY can enter my house without my autorization or a court autorization (look at your patriot act
)

Fourth, you may produce 27% of worlds GDP.. but i have a question to you.. You prefer shorter and great life.. or good and longer life? Because you economy is in shrambles precisely because of markets with next to none regulation.. In Portugal the markets have enough regulation and we NEVER had a crysis like yours..

Fifth.. i was talking about the future.. you can bet our economy will grow based on renewable energies.. we are developing it at a faster rate and we will (we already are) export them..

Sixth.. i know what im talking about.. i work in the strategic planning area, that its not only economic my friend.. the development of country can only be made and be "eternal" if we have the social, economic and environment aspects in count..

Quoting Albert Einstein: "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."

I rest my case.

[edit on 26-9-2008 by Picao84]


Good morning (here). I must leave for work soon, but I thought I'd reply. History shows that Socialism always fails under the economic burden, unless the people are taxed at a higher and higher rate. If someone steals your personal information like a bank number, then uses or sells it to take your money, it's a crime. Yet if the government does it, it's OK??
I would be willing to bet that as your population grows, so will your crime rate.

It wasn't lack of regulation that caused this economic crisis; just the opposite. It was government forcing banks to loan money to people who wouldn't get off their asses, or educate themselves enough to provide for themselves.

For what it's worth, I was not flaming your country, just having a conversation.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by TruthWithin
reply to post by nyk537
 


Are you really choosing NOW to start calling the Dems "socialists"? NOW, when the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is about to spend TRILLIONS of dollars bailing out PRIVATE institutions? NOW,when McCain is crying for this deal to pass?



Hmm, I believe Obama agrees with McCain and vowed right along with him to support this bill!

Could it be that none of them want the exposure that would surely come out in the wash, if Wall Street is left out to dry? Most people know that they have all had their hands in this dirty money grubbing!



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 06:21 AM
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reply to post by nyk537
 



Actually a society that takes care of all its people is not that bad, contrary to popular belief. If its every man for himself, you get high crime rates and a violent society by default.
Very good post, starred and flagged.

In the rest of the world socialism is not a dirty word. Most American people are still back in the 60's mindset of our last "big fear factor", Communism. They just can't wrap their minds around being a social society.

(Our fire department, water and police department are socialistic services) as they are a service that is provided with our combined tax money to the public. What if everyone had to put out their own fires or police their own property or dig their own wells.

Our economy is in the toilet, we are in a costly war (we were lied to and manipulated into), crime is high, our educational system sucks (because we put all our money into the military and not enough into our social services, our jobs are going overseas, our borders are left open, we are on the brink of nuclear inialation, are you really better off then eight years ago? Millions of people now losing their homes, millions of people without any medical care, on and on it goes but people keep seeing only what they want to see because of stubborness and pride.

We are all interconnected and most people don't get that, they just don't see that connection and like a bunch of greedy children or the pelicans in Finding Nemo are constantly screaming ME ME ME ME ME.

That is why our entire system is messed up, until we start saying WE and not ME things are going to continue to get worse and the elite rich have manipulated it that way, pitting the peons against each other, nobody sees this.

Socialism means living together, EVERYONE (Rich included) paying their fair share of the taxes and helping each other vs every man for himself.

United we stand divided we fall.

Sometimes the human animal is too stubborn for his own good, he's just too proud to admit there might be a better way and refuses to think outside the box that has outlived it's usefulness.

Now what about social medical care? Okay how about, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", remember that phase, it's a guarantee to each and every American and yet when someone is sick, how much $$$$$ determins their quality of medical care and that's going against that little sacred phrase, life and happiness (quality of health & care).

If mankind progresses, it will be because of him learning to become a more social animal and not "everyman for himself".

We are all in this experience called life together and need to learn to think of each other vs only ourselves.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by ofhumandescent]



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