It's official, Obama to make AWB permanent

reply to post by ORIPEIA


What a crock. If you where truly in the infantry you would not make such a ridiculous reply. Military weapons for the purpose we are talking about are and always have been superior to the average hunting rifle. They work in a miriad of enviornments and function in a manner that over rides the basic hunting weapon of the average citizen. Even though most military weapons are based on actions designed for basic rifles, the military weapon surpasses the workings of a hunting semi-auto. If what you stated where true we would still be using Springfield bolt actions and Mausers and other bolt actions. To say that our forefathers and statesmen that wrote our constitution didn't realise that this country would not progress beyond the matchlock is to denegrate these great minds and insult our intellect.

Zindo

reply to post by boaby_phet
The real reason for guns is to protect us from our Govt.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Thats not the how the law is written. It is written the way Open_Minded Skeptic describes it.

If it is a private school it is up to the school to decide that. If it is a government school then it should uphold the Constitution and yes, kids should be able to sling machineguns over their shoulders as they enter. My father was on the school rifle team. Nearly everyone his generation was. My generation didn't have the option in our state.

Why not let excons own a gun? I'm sure plenty of excons have more than a few acquaintances from their past who would wish them ill. Because they have committed crimes in the past they shouldn't be allowed to protect themselves or participate in shooting sports? Seems silly.

You scare me and I'm for the right to own guns. I hunt for food and target shoot for sport.

Not allowing legal sales to convicted criminals, especially those who have engaged in violent crimes is perfectly reasonable. Not selling them to the mentally ill is also reasonable.

The attitude you express will help them outlaw guns as they can use you for an example. I'm pro-guns and you have me concerned you own one. You quit a job and took a huge cut in pay just so you could buy a specific gun? Sorry but that is on the borderline of , well you know what. I hope your family did not suffer over it.

They eliminated gun laws here in Alaska, but that does not mean children can take guns to school or that we can go into a public place and wave a gun around. It means that responsible people can carry a weapon if they wish. What you propose is irresponsible and childlike on its face.

Are you sir a plant from the anti-gun lobby sent here to make gun owners look like a bunch of inbred hicks by pretending to be one of us. I'm betting that you are. Only someone who is a plant would ever post such nonsense.

I don't understand why this is causing such a big deal. Bush pandered to the Christians with his antiabortion rhetoric and guess where we stand on that issue today? The same place we did the day the man got elected.

Obama strikes me the same way. All talk like all politians, no change, honestly I am losing interest in politics altogether at this point.

I think Americans need to start thinking about themselves, and the hell with what some stranger in DC has to say. They never listen to us anyway.

If the people in office who vote for things like wars actually had to man up and send everyone in their own clans FIRST, then maybe I will listen to what Obama and the rest have to say. Until they can match actions with words, I am not even interested.

And as far as guns go, I prefer a knife or (lord help me) a home made incendiary device over an assault rifle. By the time we will need to be armed with assault rifles, I would rather focus on bunkering down and rigging my perimeter so that it doesn't matter what kind of gun you have. I can make a device that would be much for efficient for assaulting a large number of persons than an assault gun or machine gun. A regular old smith and wesson can still kill ya, with a skilled hand on the gun, and then where does the machine gun get you?

Anyway, I think this is a moot debate, because I have serious doubts with a politician keeping his campaign promises/threats/panderments. (yes I just made that word up).

HE HE HE HE!!! panderments, how very very appropriate. A well found word M'lady!!

Zindo

I think Mr. Obama is just as tired as I am of the "bad parts of town" being the "bad parts of town".

I live in Birmingham, AL. It is a top ranking US city for violent crime. Do you know how many businesses in the downtown area have hurt because of firearms being in the wrong people's hands? I know I quit going down to the nightclubs because people are shooting each other. I don't want to be in the crossfire of people with military grade weaponry. I do understand that people can kill each other with anything if they have the motivations but I would prefer they don't get a large number of chances to shoot me no matter what I try to hide behind.

No one needs a 40 round clip filled with ammunition that can shoot through walls and body armor. These weapons will still be able to be obtained through the appropriate paperwork just like you can still get a fully automatic assault rifle that would otherwise be illegal. You can even buy weapons from an individual that wants to sell theirs. This is a bunch of hype from people who are scared over nothing. No one is going to take away your guns, they are just curbing the production of them.

These weapons are not "super expensive" and can be had for under $200 dollars. An ak-47 isn't ending up in the hands of every upstanding american to defend their homes from the boogie man. They are ending up in he hands of drug dealers, thieves, violent criminals and worst of all CHILDREN.

www.examiner.com...
www.vpc.org...

I hope people understand that this will be a good thing and their worries are for nothing.

reply to post by Spoodily


FBI stats show infaticaly that assault weapons are used in one tenth of one percent of crimes committed. Your fear is misguided. I have never been to a bar or night club and had someone walk in with an assault weapon under his arm or hidden in his coat. And don't count UZI's. they are 9 Mil and ain't assault rifles!


Zinfo

[edit on 9/25/2008 by ZindoDoone]

reply to post by Spoodily


In my opinion as both a mother, and a sister of a gun crime, I say we address the underlining reasons we have drug dealers in the first place, (legalization, anyone?) thieves for another, (4.20 cents for gas? perhaps), but most important of all, address why CHILDREN have their hands upon a gun (poor parenting, just a guess, maybe parents should start knowing just what the hell their kid is up to?).

This makes more sense to me than another toothless meaningless law.

Do drug dealers and thieves and children so messed up they are accessing guns really stop to think about the LAW?

reply to post by ZindoDoone



There are assault rifles being used by people who should not have them in my town. They are in the cars outside of the nightclubs, they are defending drug houses, they are being carried by teenagers down the street in the middle of the day, they are injuring and killing many people that don' need to be killed or injured.

I almost bought a .22 automatic but the seller changed their mind about letting it go. I currently own an unregistered firearm. I am aware of how easy it is to aquire these weapons but the cops are wasting their time in rounding these guns up if the factories are just putting more out on the streets.

[edit on 9/25/2008 by Spoodily]

reply to post by boaby_phet


Interesting questions. I'll answer with more.

Obviously criminals in the UK, as in any country, can get their hands on guns. They don't care about the law. They know that when they invade a home that nobody can defend themselves against them. There is no deterrent.

Here, those of us who live in rural communities or areas that allow gun ownership and where most people do have guns, criminals know that if they enter a home they could be confronted with an armed, skilled person with a weapon ready to defend their home, property and lives.

Put yourself in the place of a criminal for a moment. Would you rather invade a home where you know that the owner has no gun or the home of a person who has a gun and is skilled using it?

We have Police to catch criminals after the fact and courts to try them. The problem is when you wake up and see a person with a gun down your stairs, if you call the Police they may show up in 5 minutes or 30 minutes. By the time they can arrive you and your family may be dead, dying or injured. Not their fault because the responsibility for your own defense can only lie with you.

Another thing that is different here than other countries, is that we have plentiful Game to hunt. Many of us prefer Wild Game and it far more healthy to eat than farmed or ranch raised meats. It is our natural food source. We evolved to eat it and the desire to hunt is instinctual. The Game animals we hunt are in no danger of underpopulation, so there is no reason to deny us the ability to eat a more natural diet and live more as nature once intended by hunting our own Game. I was taught very young to never shoot anything unless I eat it and I'm personally disgusted by sports hunters who are after trophies. I've probably shot Game that were world records or in the top few, but never cared or kept a trophy.

The freer a country is the more the right to own weapons is needed. To remove that right to self-defense you must also remove other rights or you leave the citizens sitting ducks for bad people. As I understand from reading many articles here, the UK has far less freedoms. Here we have traditionally had more freedoms and the little things have been overlooked by the law as that freedom is seen as more important than worrying about every little petty offense. We have some areas where that is less true like California and DC.

The reason our jails are so full now is that our laws have gotten out of control. Our jails are full of people who are harmless to society until they are indoctrinated into crime while in jail. I'll leave that for another thread. I mention it because it is a major reason gun ownership has become an issue of late. We are becoming fearful of those who protect us because they are stripping our right away so fast to control us.

DC is probably the best example of the results of leaving citizens unprotected and incredible crime rate it helps to cause. I spent much of my life in rural areas where everyone owns a gun. Crime was limited to bar room fights and an occasional family feud between a husband and wife. There were no gangs, no radical groups and we did not even have a need to lock a door. Everyone knew if you went into someones home uninvited, you would likely take a load of buckshot as a reward.

A question as promised. If tomorrow your Government decided to seize all private property and businesses and create a pure Socialist State, how would you defend against them? What if they took your children from you and placed them into State run schools, could you stop them? They could use the same logic they used to take children from their parents due to their weight, could they not? What would you do?

For anyone to say that guns (of any sort - especially full or semi-automatics) should be banned, with the government that we have had in place for the past 8 years, is very scary to me. This Administration, if nothing else, has proven that the Constitution and our Founding Fathers were correct in including the 2nd Amendment (as written).

I own guns - and am stockpiling ammo... not because I'm afraid of my neighbor or some gang of thugs kicking in my door (although they would be sorry). I have them so when the govenment decides to kick in my door I can defend myself. The Army isn't going to help the American Citizens when the SHTF. We the People will help ourselves and we better be armed and organized.

reply to post by Blaine91555


No one is taking anyone's guns away. They are not coming to anyone's home to sieze your guns. We have a right to own guns and to defend ourselves with them, the problem nowadays is people want to use them offensively and not defensively. There are just too many highpowered rifles that are not used for hunting available at the moment and new ones are being made everyday.

If someone needs a 40 round clip and bullets that will go straight through a deer they need a lesson in marksmanship. Assault rifles are for one thing, assaulting things. Not hunting.

Obama can ban guns all he wants. I could care less really because well, any politician can outlaw anything but theyll have to come and take them.

reply to post by thecandyman


You should be more concerned with a bank foreclosing on your home and taking it legally than the government kicking in your door. It's a fantasy that will never happen. I realized these things will never happen when I quit smoking weed and started to think clearly and rationally.

As much fun as it seems to go Rambo on the government gone renegade it will never happen. The only people the government will come after are the ones the rest of the country are supporting through taxes.

[edit on 9/25/2008 by Spoodily]

reply to post by Mendozer


I gave you a star. The government won't get mine and I have rights guaranteed to me to possess it.

[edit on 9/25/2008 by Spoodily]

reply to post by Spoodily


There is zero point in banning high cap mags and ak47's / AR-15 type rifles. It will do nothing to deter the crime rate. We all know this, and it's just annoying to gun owners. Rifles are hardly used it crimes.

The 2nd amendment was never about hunting. Shocking how this country has become like this. 95% of all gun owners do not commit crimes. This is not the UK or Australia and thus would be impossible to get every firearm out of the country. Look at the war on drugs and how much that’s costing and how much of a failure it is.

Not allowing people on welfare to have children, nor families who live below the poverty line would make more sense to be honest.

Most people here talking about the AWB, and banning firearms are very ignorant about the subject. Its title acts just like patriot act. The first AWB did not do anything, thus no need for it.

People are saying that the government and police will not come for your firearms, well it already happened. The sad thing is people are going to willingly give up their rights. I already see the sheep bawwwwing about dangerous black rifles out of pure ignorance.

Hi I'm from Canada and i've always been puzzled as to why Americans care so much for weapons. Here in Canada gun's are hard to even aqquire even if its illegally. Knives above 6 inches are banned as well. Now most would say well what if a gang comes etc well without the weapons criminals feel less insecured about actually going about commiting a crime the worst i've seen where airsoft pistols and people who brought hammers/lead pipes now i'm sorry but when you see that you dont become scared if anything you start laughing like Lol who brings a hammer? My point being is if you all banned guns you'de see the crime rate drop. But now because we all know what kind of corrupt country America is I encourage all Americans alike to fight for weapons its bad enough their starting to create a police state but.. Imagine if they took away your weapons then officially your grandchildren will be slaves your ancestors would have died for nothing.. And everyone you knew/cared about would join you in the 1000's of prisions across the country. Do you want that? I'm Canadian and I say HELL NO! Keep your guns and if a war of true patriots is launched stand proud lock an load an f the Rothschild/government buriocrats up.

Originally posted by boaby_phet

i never really understood why americans make such a big deal about gun ownership..

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that America would not exist in its current form were it not for the private ownership of firearms.

Then we needed them again in 1812 to repel the British and their second attempt at domination.

Then again in the mid-1800s to tame the west.

Then in 1939 when American hunters donated tens of thousands of rifles to help the British who were laregly unarmed in the face of the Germans.

Then in 1942 when the high levels of ownership convinced the Japanese that any landings in the US would be a disaster - the exact comment was "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass".

Or the estimated 2 million legal uses of a firearm for self protection every year in the US.

Or the fact that every year states like Pennsylvania have to issue over 1 million hunting permits to control the deer population which would otherwise destroy millions of dollars of crops.

Or the necessity of firearms ownership in states with high populations of dangerous game such as Alaska where going for a hike can be a life threatening event.

Or the massive organizations devoted purely to recreational target shooting, IDPA, IPSC, SASS etc etc.

Starting to get the picture?

Sounds like govt is getting worried there will be a revolution.... and banning things based on ridiculous data.. 2-3%? FOR YOUR SAFETY??? Hahahahha.
If you fall for that you are a sheeple through and through.

Even more reason for 'we the people' to rush tumultuously to arms to decapitate the overgrown and over controlling government.
Guns are the only thing the people have that scares the govt. It's power and not in tanks, aircraft and ships, but in flesh and bone, guns and ammo. And very numerous flesh and bone + guns an ammo

Originally posted by Spoodily

If someone needs a 40 round clip and bullets that will go straight through a deer they need a lesson in marksmanship. Assault rifles are for one thing, assaulting things. Not hunting.

Governments are pretty solid targets. Hence the 2nd amendment. You seem to forget WHY it exists.

An excellent link here on the 2nd amendment. The RIGHT to bear arms.

www.minnesotamajority.org...

[edit on 25/9/08 by GhostR1der]

Originally posted by boaby_phet
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

noone needs guns!, guns are nasty little machines, simply developed to kill and hurt people or animals ( no, im not a veggie or against hunting!)

really, what do YOU need a gun for? and why does it upset you that you cant own a gun.. something that can only be used to harm someone.