Bailout Could Deepen Crisis, CBO Chief Says

It's all very well to say that it's important to discuss this, which it is, but while you can read countless discussions all over the internet, countless news articles, almost all of which suggest that there are a lot of ways to spend 700 billion which would be far better for the economy, while almost all of those state that this bailout has only a 6 or 7 percent approval rating, the sad fact of the matter is, that in this sham of a democracy we call the USA, what the people want, what the economists (the real ones, not the ones making money from all of this on wall street and in the government) have to say, the sad fact is that this bailout will happen. We will be using taxpayer money to add value to a valueless system. The free market corrections will not be allowed to happen. We will not profit from this deal, no matter how many times you can say the word trickledown in a sentence.

What we truly need is something government cannot give us, something wall street cannot give us. Actual accountability. Let the people who made the mistakes pay for them. Bailout the innocent.

Screw the guilty.

reply to post by Inannamute

It's all very well to say that it's important to discuss this, which it is, but while you can read countless discussions all over the internet, countless news articles, almost all of which suggest that there are a lot of ways to spend 700 billion which would be far better for the economy, while almost all of those state that this bailout has only a 6 or 7 percent approval rating, the sad fact of the matter is, that in this sham of a democracy we call the USA, what the people want, what the economists (the real ones, not the ones making money from all of this on wall street and in the government) have to say, the sad fact is that this bailout will happen. We will be using taxpayer money to add value to a valueless system.

One obvious FACT stands out. Neither Bernacke, Paulson nor Bush43 are any smarter than we ordinary mortals. One of them said, "doing something is better than dong nothing!" Now that ain't necessarily so!

It’s the perfect storm! For the moneyed class. A chance to "get right" made in Heaven. It is yet another proof GOD loves the Rich more than HE loves the Poor. The Dems (barely) control Congress. They are already “blamed” for not ending the Iraq War. The Dems cannot afford to take the chance that between now and November 4, the economy could go ka-poohey! So the Dems are between a rock and a hard place.

Note: The Dems have 50 seats in the Senate plus 1 Independent from VT. CT's Joe Lieberman is out there just waiting to switch sides. That would put VP Cheney back in the driver’s seat. It is obvious to me the GOP has decided to let the Dems stay in "control" of the Senate so the Dems can "share" blame for any calamity with Bush43.

To control the Senate, it takes 60 senators to shut off debate - stop a filibuster - and the Dems are far away from that. The House is safely in Dem hands. 233 to 202 I believe. 218 is a majority.

[edit on 9/28/2008 by donwhite]

The Good Banker’s Credo

Let no loans be made that are not secured beyond a reasonable contingency. Do nothing to encourage speculation. Give facilities only to legitimate and prudent transactions. Distribute your loans rather than concentrate them in a few hands. Large loans to a single individual or firm although sometimes proper and necessary, are generally injudicious and frequently unsafe.

Large borrowers are apt to control the bank. If you doubt the propriety of discounting an offering, give the bank the benefit of the doubt and decline it. If you have reason to distrust a customer, close his account. Never deal with a rascal under the impression you can prevent him from cheating you.

Pay your officers such salaries as will enable them to live comfortably and respectably without stealing; and require of them their entire services. If an officer lives beyond his income dismiss him even if his excess of expenditures can be explained consistently with his integrity, still dismiss him. Extravagance, if not a crime, very naturally leads to crime.

The capital of a bank should be reality, not a fiction and it should be owned by those who have money to lend and not by borrowers.

Pursue a straightforward, upright, legitimate banking business. Splendid financing is not legitimate banking and splendid financiers in banking are generally either humbugs or rascals.

A letter to ALL national banks, and signed by
H. McCulloch,
then Comptroller of the Currency
and later, Secretary of the Treasury.
December 1, 1863.

[edit on 10/2/2008 by donwhite]

reply to post by donwhite


I agree we can make it, but see the bankers and all those fat rats that had been enveloping the people into their corrupted practices with their banking dirty deals can not!!!!!!!!!!!

They need the merry go around of bad loans and bad credit to keep perpetuating the addiction they have created on the consumer.

They have been luring the consumer with their goods like whores into believing that without credits and loans they can not live.

And corporate America has made sure that our nation doesn't' provide enough income to regular citizens to be able to live without that toxic credit addiction.

We all in it.

The bush Administration in 8 years has fattened the dirty and corrupted pockets of corporate America and the global bankers with the sweat and blood of tax payers.

Now they want more because they can not survive without that infusion of cash.

but the problems is that the tax payer can not give anymore blood and our lenders the Asian banks unless they get some of this bail out money to replenish their coffers may not be very willing to provide the blood either.

Bail out or not this nation is going to implode as we have become nothing more than a nation of spender on credit and borrowers to keep the government functioning.

That is what people needs to understand.



[edit on 2-10-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by zysin5


No. The age of the nation state is over and if anything we are in the early stages of its death throws. If anything you will see a fragmentation of nation states into smaller more discreet principalities which will be a good thing... by the end of the century I foresee the beginnings of a world federation based on mutual need as opposed to aggressive nation states and that will be a good thing.

As for the bailout... my knee jerk reaction was to be deadset against it... now the more I learn the more I realize the choice before us is doing nothing and having a disaster and doing something and having a real bad time of it.

There are no easy or pretty options.

reply to post by grover

The age of the nation state is over and if anything we are in the early stages of its death throes. If anything you will see a fragmentation of nation states into smaller more discreet principalities which will be a good thing . . by the end of the century I foresee the beginnings of a world federation based on mutual need as opposed to aggressive nation states and that will be a good thing. As for the bailout . . my knee jerk reaction was to be dead set against it. Now the more I learn the more I realize the choice before us is doing nothing and having a disaster and doing something and having a real bad time of it. There are no easy or pretty options.

Sweet Jesus, Grover! I note your HOR is Roanoke, which by some oddity or fit of nature, was the name of the first (though it failed) English colony planted in the New World. The only thing remaining found at the abandoned Roanoke site (now in North Carolina) was the single word carved in a tree - CROATOAN. Presumably that referring to the Croatoa Indians who lived nearby but no trace was ever found of any of the missing colonists. en.wikipedia.org...

Prophets of doom have been forecasting such an END TIME scenario at least since John of Patmos. See Note 1. While most of us do not take that writing to be literally true, there are many who do including Sarah Palin. People of that belief system are not as urgent in seeking peace between Israel, the Palestinians and Iran as I’d like to be. They generally assume that it is A) in GOD’s hand alone and or B) the outcome is inevitable and unchangeable, all things having been fixed “from the foundations of the world.”

I too am a prophet of impending doom. I worry that we will - if we have not already - cross a tripping point beyond which recovery is not possible. I am more concerned today that we - the human race - will run out of WATER long before we run out of CRUDE OIL. I know energy intense large scale desalination supports the 20 million people making up the Saudi Arabian economy, but that is feasible ONLY because the source of energy to run the plants is FREE.

Here in Florida where it rains 50 inches a year, on average, we nevertheless get 100% of our municipal drinking water from deep wells. Those indispensable aquifers are now admitting salt water from the Atlantic. We have to drill false wells to pump fresh water into the ground in order to halt or slow down the inevitable Atlantic Ocean salt from contaminating our drinking water as we (carelessly) pull DOWN the water table.

Central Florida - Orlando and its environs - will run out of water in 2012*. Those good folks have already petitioned Tallahassee to allow them to take 400 million gallons a day from the St. Johns River that Jacksonville thinks of as its very own. We now hear claim and counter-claim that this will/will not destroy the already seriously threatened St. Johns. *By “run out” I mean they will have no excess water available for further development of any kind not that all people in Central Florida will have to shift to bottled water.


Note 1. “These events are foreseen: the Great Tribulation, the Campaign of Armageddon, the Second Coming of the Messiah with the restoration of peace to the world and His 1,000 year reign, the imprisonment of Satan (portrayed as a dragon) until he is 'loosed' for the final rebellion, God's final judgment over Satan, the Great White throne judgment, and the ushering in of the New Heavens and New Earth. Alternatively, according to the Preterist theory, the events of the latter part of the Apocalypse of John are interpreted as being fulfilled by events in the 1st century.”

Another group into prophesying is the Seventh Day Adventist denomination which grew out of the 1840s Second Great Awakening movement. it originated with William Miller. He prophesied that Jesus Christ would return to Earth on October 22, 1844. Seventh-day Adventist Church teachings include such fundamentalist staples as the Trinity and the infallibility of Scripture. In the United States The Adventist operate the largest Protestant educational system and is second in numbers of students only to the Roman Catholic Church system.

Q. Are you “going” to Heaven? See Revelation 7. One of the five angels John saw had the seal of God (v. 2). The sealed number was 144,000 (v 4): twelve thousand out of each of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel (v. 4-8). [Ten of which are LOST. But see the Book of Mormon.] Is "tribes of the children of Israel" used literally or figuratively? We ask this in view of the nature of the book of Revelation. If taken literally, then only 144,000 taken from the actual twelve tribes can be saved in heaven . . . “ Sorry about that.
en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 10/2/2008 by donwhite]

reply to post by donwhite


I don't consider myself a prophet of doom... when I was young I cut my teeth on the likes of Oswald Spengler, Joseph Campbell (his serious work not the power of myth book) and others... I just see the signs that the nation state has run its course and in my humble opinion its about time.

The bailout is creating the expected ripples...

already the house OKed another extension of unemployment benefits for another 7 weeks... The catch is that the Senate won't vote on it till after thanksgiving but before christmas holiday, sometime like 8 Dec


lots are using the excuse of 'we bailed out the banker system...now lets bailout main-street'... which many 'pro' HR6867 congress persons stated in their 1 minute speeches.


let's see what the COLA cost-of-living-allowence is calculated for the Entitlements like S.S.
It surely should be at least 5%, see chart at www.ssa.gov...
and notice even with the September number not calculated yet--- that year over year the index is up over 13 points....
rather than the 3-4 points that have been realized year-over-year for the past decade.
The 'bailout' should have an effect on this index, for either good or ill,
for the millions of people receiving entitlement pensions.
I have a sneaky feeling that the social sercurity receipients will be shouldering a lot of the cost for the bankster bailout of $700bn