Bush Pre Speech/Post Speech Thoughts and Dissection

People need to ask themselves if this is passed where is the money going to come from?

1 they will borrow from Social security
2 they will print more money causing inflation
3 the rest will come from the taxpayers.

Don't be fooled by the $700 billion dollar figure. that is the low end in what its going to cost us. No one knows for sure exactly what it is going to cost and will probably be above 1 trillion dollars by all is said and done.

There is nothing in this plan that says the Treasury has to stop at $700 billion it only says the Treasury can have $700 billion in toxic debt on the books at a time. The Treasury can sell these toxic debt back for a loss if they want. Then buy more toxic debts. There is no congressional over sight No Judaical review either whatever the Treasury secretary decides is final!

The Bankers and CEO's that seek a bailout will keep their golden parachutes (ie Bonuses, stock options etc ect.) they will not face accountablity in there actions. And any profits from the bailout will go to them not the taxpayers.

Remember secretary Paulson is the former CEO of Goldman Saches do you really think he is going to propose a plan that will hold his buddies accountable?

I think the stress of this crisis is getting to Bush he didn't look good and maybe he's wishing he would have pushed congress harder to impose tougher regulations on the financial sector years ago

For those of you (like myself) who could not watch, the miami herald has posted a transcript. I am still looking for video footage beyond the sound bytes that have been captured (note, its 2 hours later, so there may not be video footage until later, or tomorrow).

transcript courtesy Miami Herald

President Bush's speech did not change my opinion one iota.I did notice a tension in his face that would relate to fear or dread.

People,it's the same old capitol hill shell game,just put in a different package.700 billion dollars to buy toxic mortages.Hold the property until the price goes up and sell the property.Crisis averted Sounds good doesn't it?

Truthfully,they buy these toxic mortages for face value.Hold them till the dust settles from this"bailout".Then sell the property back to realestate speculators for pennies on the dollar. The rich get richer and the poor get stuck with the 700 billion dollar bill.

We are so screwed!!!!

reply to post by Ketzer22


The goverment should not be an owner of public companies. They are going about this all wrong. Lets forget about punishing the deadbeats and bad banks or even CEO salaries. Let's get ourselves out of this mess once and for all, lets look back at what went wrong and then prevent it from happening again.

I say let them buy the loans. Once they have, pass that discount on to the homeowner in the form of a discouned mortgage. Problem solved at no expense to the goverment. Then lets move forward as a more responsible capitalistic system.

Originally posted by Ketzer22
To the post above mine, "fellow Americans" does not imply that he holds himself seperate from the populace. I'm not sure how you could misconstrue the meaning of that...

But my point was that I don't think he ever used that term, "fellow Americans", and that this fact would imply that he he does not count us as his "fellows". I know he opened with a simple "Good evening", and I don't recall him uttering those words at any time during his whole speech. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

To Subject X- My apologies.. I guess I misunderstood your comment.. I didn't catch the very begining of the address.. did he really not say "fellow americans?"


To disgustedbyhumanity--

I know the government SHOULDN'T own the companies, as that is socialism. However, like Bush said, these are special circumstances.. its sort of the government's fault in the first place as they allowed banks to have all this runaway lending knowing damn well Johnny Lowlife didn't have a job, nor intent to get one and yet they loaned him money.

I agree that we need to just cut and start fresh, but I think this approach is a pretty good one.. they're going to make money in the end when they sell all those assets that they have attained at a lower price.

On the other hand your idea about a discounted mortgage to the homeowners is a decent idea too. And what would you say a more responsible capitalistic system would be?

Indeed merky. There was something just altogehter strange and surreal about that whole skit.

And it left me very unnerved. A few da uh's would have made me feel better. Just not right.

He looked heavily medicated. And he did not blink at all.

[edit on 9/24/2008 by jpm1602]

reply to post by SEEWHATUDO


I'm tired of this. I AM TIRED OF THIS. Every single congresswoman and congressman that votes for this bail out should be kicked to the curb when their term expires. KICK THEM TO THE CURB!!! I'm sick of them selling my children down the river. How many trillions have the saddled on the next generation? I'm losing count! And they refuse to touch the topic of social security because they all know they'll all be dead before the crap hits the fan. They're a bunch of self-centered baby boomers. First their parents spoiled the crap out of them and now they're taking everythign from their children and grandchildren. SPOILED BRATTY BABY BOOMERS!!!! What they're doing is an abomination!!!!!

The speech is posted over at yahoo.

Originally posted by Mercenary2007

1 they will borrow from Social security
2 they will print more money causing inflation
3 the rest will come from the taxpayers.

1 There is no social security fund. It is a transfer payment program, funded by current taxation and borrowing.
2 Correct. And inflation is implicit taxation.
3 Correct. Taxes will go up.

Conclusion: It will all come from the taxpayers, one way or another. You can hedge yourself, however. The key is to do what they do. If they intend to inflate themselves out of debt while supporting high real estate prices, then the best bet is to borrow money at fixed rates and use it to buy real estate. Saving dollars is for fools.



You know, there are alternatives to what is being proposed. For example, if we did away with all business, corporate, and investment taxes, we would be the tax haven of the world, and money would flood into the country, easily providing the capital the markets need. But, that would mean less control and power for Congress, so you may notice that no one even mentions the possibility.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Bailout Could Deepen Crisis, CBO Chief Says

"Ironically, the intervention could even trigger additional failures of large institutions, because some institutions may be carrying troubled assets on their books at inflated values," Orszag said in his testimony. "Establishing clearer prices might reveal those institutions to be insolvent."

www.tickerforum.org...

Frankly he scared the hell out of me. That is what he was going for... his scare tactics are his weapon of choice. It worked I'm effing scared. It's all about last minute dyer decision making the law makers have no time to fully consume. I would love to think that this is the worst of it. What to come...? I am trying to brace myself. No way can people come away from hearing that speech with any kind of assurance.

Originally posted by Deseis1204
forget the equipment, did you listen to what he said?

he tried to explain why the economy is so bad
he even said that the economy has been declining for "ten years"
i didnt notice the decline till about 2005

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

All this coming from a guy who for the last several months has been saying the economy is "strong" and showing signs of improvement? Give me a break. Everything we are seeing is straight up BS and I found it even more suspicious that CNN.com Mobile had already posted the highlights of the President's speech 20 mins before the speech actually happened. If that is not proof that the MSM is bought and paid for, I don't know what does.

Originally posted by subject x

Originally posted by Ketzer22
To the post above mine, "fellow Americans" does not imply that he holds himself seperate from the populace. I'm not sure how you could misconstrue the meaning of that...

But my point was that I don't think he ever used that term, "fellow Americans", and that this fact would imply that he he does not count us as his "fellows". I know he opened with a simple "Good evening", and I don't recall him uttering those words at any time during his whole speech. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

The speech was intended for broader audience. There are folks around the world right now who have second thought on buying US Treasury bonds and stuff the way it used to be. So it's better to say "good evening" than "my fellow Americans."

This was definitely a night that was made for ATS -- I am amazed that the board is not completely lit up.

Obviously -- there is SOME BIG SECRET at play here -- Bush is panicking. Obama is returning now to DC for a secret meeting with the President. McCain is "suspending" is campaign and asking for the first debate to be canceled.

People are saying that collapse is possible by MONDAY. (By people, I'm talking about US senators, and the President himself.)

My guess -- there has been some sort of secret communication, maybe from a major creditor country like China, Saudia Arabia, or the UK. We haven't been told the whole story here. Why? Obviously, to avoid striking total fear into the population.

I don't think I've ever seen Bush look that scared on television before. Not during any part of the Sept 11th crises. Not at any time. You can almost smell his panic. (Or is that just my imagination?)

No Friday the 13th, Kujo, or Stephen King novel comes close to the fear elicited tonight.

When w stops duh uhhing and stammering, Houston, we have a problem.

He was a complete zombie tonite. And now I have to try to sleep. Goodnite Irene.



[edit on 9/25/2008 by jpm1602]

reply to post by Grumble


your right their are always alternatives. But the thing is we are in uncharted territory right now in the market No one knows what to do and if anything is going to work. we could bail them out and the market could still crash.

One thing is for sure the market is going to correct itself no matter what anyone does to try and stop it. The market shot sky high on bad mortgages and to much risk. now the bubble has burst and it has to come down remember for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

if we did away with all business, corporate, and investment taxes, we would be the tax haven of the world, and money would flood into the country, easily providing the capital the markets need.

don't get me wrong this is a good idea in principle. and would probably work in the long run. But what every one is trying to figure out what to do to stabilize the market so a long term solution can be found. your idea is a long term solution but won't do anything here now when we need it. the global economy is straining because of the U.S. economy right now. there is no foreign capital to invest in the us right now. hell we're sending money to other countries to help their economies right now.

reply to post by Buck Division


its not your imagination he knows we are looking at a depression that will make the great depression look like a mild recession.

Originally posted by wheresthetruth
For those of you (like myself) who could not watch, the miami herald has posted a transcript. I am still looking for video footage beyond the sound bytes that have been captured (note, its 2 hours later, so there may not be video footage until later, or tomorrow).

transcript courtesy Miami Herald

Thanks for the transcript link.
Feel lucky . . .

See, in today's mortgage industry, home loans are often packaged together and converted into financial products called mortgage-backed securities. These securities were sold to investors around the world.

That explains why the Bush Administration has always strongly opposed nuclear arms proliferation.

Originally posted by stander
The speech was intended for broader audience. There are folks around the world right now who have second thought on buying US Treasury bonds and stuff the way it used to be. So it's better to say "good evening" than "my fellow Americans."

I don't know if that's the reason or not, but you're absolutely right about this being watched around the world.

While all of this has been going on in the USA, everyone else has been very busy with contingency plans, both nationally and personally - making sure that their economies (and personal finances) are as protected as possible, should the worst come to pass. Here in Japan, there's been a bit of a bargain sale shopping spree as well - something that's likely to continue.

From what I've been seeing, people here are waiting to see if the bailout happens. If it does, that means that the USA will continue to be a solid investment (as the government is willing to back the economy). If the bailout doesn't happen, you are going to see a very steady (and hopefully controlled) withdrawal from the US economy by pretty much everyone, followed by a bit of firesale acquisition of US companies foreign assets (see: Lehman Asia). This possibility of a bailout is the ONLY thing keeping people from getting out entirely: the confidence level in the US economy at this point is pretty much nil.

Having read through the proposed bailout, I can't say it looks pretty for you guys over there. But here's the thing: if it doesn't happen, things have the very real potential to be significantly worse. All the things like red and blue partisan politics and which administration is to blame is irrelevant to the rest of the world. If the government tries to fix things with a bailout, confidence will be (minimally) restored. If congress balks, the problem stands - and people will pull out until the dust settles.

That's how it looks from here, anyway. Your mileage may vary.

Originally posted by vox2442
Having read through the proposed bailout, I can't say it looks pretty for you guys over there. But here's the thing: if it doesn't happen, things have the very real potential to be significantly worse. All the things like red and blue partisan politics and which administration is to blame is irrelevant to the rest of the world. If the government tries to fix things with a bailout, confidence will be (minimally) restored. If congress balks, the problem stands - and people will pull out until the dust settles.

That's how it looks from here, anyway. Your mileage may vary.

Aha.
Thanks for your observations. I think that the Congress is not willing to gamble with the economy, and the bill will pass with provisions. No one can't tell what the effect of pulling entirely away from the bailout would be. If you gamble and lose on the economy, then you are facing double whammy: the financial system sucks in principle and the economy stinks. The foreign investors would learn a few words in Mandarin and take their valets to Hong Kong.

This country has been always good to others as far as trade is concerned. But the economy here is deeply credit-based, and if the unsound credit market starts choking the economy, you won't sell too many Toyotas around here. So the Japanese and others will feel the effect more or less.

Hey, I believe that Lehman Brothers -- the Asian branch -- sprayed some of that toxic material on that continent. How do they call those "troubled assets" over there? Agent Orange?