Scientists discover Dark Flow

First word to mind was radical!!

This "dark flow" sounds like a "wormhole."

The infinite workings of space never seize to amaze me. How exciting!

Plasma cosmology sounds like childsplay... yah, right.

Really cool thread thanks for turning me on to it. I have always been interested in astronomy but never thought I would enjoy all of the math.

Stephen Hawkings recanting of his paradoxical theories on black holes seem fascinating to me... that energy cannot be destroyed. And dark matter... now dark flow. Too fascinating.

If you stop learning you might as well be dead.





[edit on 24-9-2008 by anyone]

reply to post by anyone


hecks yeah. i had the same thought. the space.com article has a comment section and the first few comments are about how the sky is falling and stuff, and i said, haha, lets see how this plays out here. I consider ATS to be on the frontier of the arm chair scientists. also we are lucky enough to have some brilliant people in the member list who actually went to school for this stuff.

never let your mind rest! keep on rocking in the free world

reply to post by anyone


There's nothing wrong with learning, it's being able t decipher truth from fallacy that matters.

Hawkings says that a black hole has infinite mass. This is a contradiction. A finite mass can't have infinite mass. It can be infinitely supplied by energy being sucked into it, but at no time does it have infinite mass. If it had infinite mass we'd be inside of it, but since we're not, and we have mass, then obviously the black hole is missing our mass.

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


that is mad deep, but i see exactly what you are getting at.

the only response i have to that is what if it pulls its mass/energy from some other un (regularly) observed dimension.

a black hole is such a horrific/beautiful concept. it both stills and moves me in its massive scope. im sure i would need some new hanes underpants if I ever saw one, but my curiosity tells me it would be worth it.

of course if i saw it we would be in the event horizon and gone in a flash, but still, the concept? mind boggling

reply to post by drsmooth23


I can't say exactly what a black hole is or how exactly it functions. I do know what I've heard, theories and speculations. All I can do is logically disprove them. A black hole certainly doesn't have infinite mass and that's the fact.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
reply to post by drsmooth23

 

I can't say exactly what a black hole is or how exactly it functions. I do know what I've heard, theories and speculations. All I can do is logically disprove them. A black hole certainly doesn't have infinite mass and that's the fact.

well, i think your right. science has a bad habit of grouping "exponential" and "infinite" together while they couldn't be more different.

i have long been a believer in reform and reconstruction.

what is a quasar? the only logical explanation i have heard to date is that a black hole is eating its gas and creating a stream of gas. and as you eloquently point out, the gas escape would be impossible from its mathematical model. infinite mass should go with infinite gravity, yes?
but wait!!!!

read the earlier posts about string theory and plasma cosmology and you might see that hawking is possibly wrong.

What would Einstein research if he had the WEB at his finger tips? would his research differ? scientific progress says 'yes'.

The fact that the Universe seems eternal makes my mind wander...
I can only imagine the possibilities, if there is life out there* then think of the the wonder of mutual discovery, if there isn't, then what humanity could achieve in eternity's sandbox is equally mindblowing. hopefully we wont wipe ourselves out sooner.

I do believe in the electromagnetic universe theories proposed by Leedskalnin, Tesla, and many others.

the mystery element where space "floats" could also be plasma, or something else entirely...
The so called cosmic web comes close as theories go, but in the end time will tell...

The sky appears as a vast darkness with spots of lights and clouds of dust, but astronomers have discovered that the stars and galaxies we can see are embedded in streams of light stretching between inky voids, forming a wispy invisible structure called "the cosmic web." This "framework" for the universe contains visible matter that we are all familiar with but 80 per cent of it consists of dark matter, the matter that astronomers only know to be there because of its gravitational tug on nearby objects. The structure, and how it glues the cosmos together, poses one of the next big challenges for astronomy.

source




thanks for the info OP


[edit on 24-9-2008 by TheOneEyedProphet]

reply to post by TheOneEyedProphet


a 'void of life universe', as you suggest, where we have a sandbox is crazy to me, but i love it. i think that as long a humanity on its most basic levels continue to deny ignorance we should all be ok, and or abide, as the dude might put it.

that picture is awesome. i like the the theory of an eternal cosmos. to me it just seems more rational.

also Edward Leedskalnin is the mack for using the following statement in his first book:

Reader, if for any reason you do not like the things I say in the little book, I left just as much space as I used, so you can write your own opinion opposite it and see if you can do better.
The Author

it is rather reminiscent of the philosophy behind ats.

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


discerning truth from fallacy...

Well... I guess that is kind of what I was saying (maybe you were reiterating that by your response?), or trying to say with the example of Stephen Hawking. He basically proved himself wrong about his original theory of the black hole eliminating whatever it consumes. The paradox being that nature repeats itself. Therefore, if nature repeats itself there would be black holes all around us. This lead him to the theory that energy can not be eliminated it just goes elsewhere. I might argue that the infinite quality to this later epiphany makes more sense. I never could swallow the idea of nothingness. Nothingness is still something because there is a name for it and also a concept of it. That makes it something.



Now I am no expert just a free thinker and discerning the truth from my own fallacies daily keep me in the drive for life. If there is any fallacy to what I say I delight in discovering new truths.

I watched an awesome documentary about this (Stephen Hawkings debunking himself on black holes) but I can't remember what it is called. I will look around...

I found this artical that talks a little about it. The jury is still out on his new ideas.

I think that maybe a black hole's event horizon could be a big bang into another dimension of space.

Hope I didn't throw off the thread too much.

I think it's called Horizon: The Hawking Paradox

[edit on 25-9-2008 by anyone]

reply to post by drsmooth23


I am definitely trying to rock on...

The Dude abides -love it.

Seriously though if dark flow is a wormhole it makes sense to me that it doesn't emit light in the visual spectrum because maybe it goes too fast.?

Maybe it eventually slows down seemingly infinitely elsewhere? Now I am being absolutely nonsensical but it is fun.

... or maybe dark flow is a shift in time space kind of like a trail left from a crazy fast moving object that has already passed through space there leaving a trail?

I don't know, it sounds cool though.

reply to post by anyone


"Nothing" is a concept for absence, but where that concept comes from is the immeasurable one, or the eternal one... or simply, eternity.

They are both immeasurable, nothing and eternity. Without beginning and end, though one is physical presence and the other is a concept of non-existence. Through knowing the concept of non-existence it must be known that the universe is an eternal one, since non-existence can not exist as a barrier outside of it, therefore it goes forever and in doing such explains itself as the presence of the concept of absence.

reply to post by anyone


hahahaha word up.

i feel that humanity has only been looking at the sky with good tech for just under a hundred years or so. in the cosmic scale of things, this is a quick Polaroid snap shot, a glance. we also have a seemingly infinitely large canvas to inspect. there are vast regions that have yet to be studied.

i think its pretty cool that we were told about this new matter form, but do any of us here have access to a telescope with the power to view this phenomenon?

as far as matter moving quickly through the universe; an almost certain idea. red shifts from galaxys observed prove that this is highly probable.

every time i picture a black hole i think of the simpsons episode "treehouse of horror 6" with its last segment titled 'homer to the 3rd power'.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal




I just lost everything I just wrote and I find it fitting.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by anyone]

I am going to try to retype what I lost...

You have said it so much better than I but, yes. You can't have anything without nothing.

That is why I find black holes so fascinating. For me the event horizon is the singularity.

On dark flow:

In reading the description from the OP link I see it like we our seemingly infinite universe is like a bubble being pulled by or attracted to other larger objects/bubbles/universes like a bunch of grapes (but we are that freaky mutant baby grape) and at the places where we are attracted to the other "grapes" is where the dark flow is.

Does this make any sense whatsoever to anyone else?

-it is so clear in my mind/bubble

Man it is late I really should go to bed; I am getting giddy.
-anyone

[edit on 25-9-2008 by anyone]

Originally posted by anyone
reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

 

I just lost everything I just wrote and I find it fitting.

hahaha we are talking about black holes and such, i can see the irony.

Check above I redid my post.

This was a one liner.

reply to post by drsmooth23


Ya, in a way it is really a blind faith that we believe or want to believe vicariously.

That Simsons vid. was too funny have you seen the opening credits vid. set done with actors, hil ar i ous.

reply to post by anyone


Black hole sun
Wont you come
And wash away the rain
-soundgarden

*OFF TOPIC*

oh yeah, it looks kind of British. the cars in the video scream Europe, but to see it played out with real people is beyond awesome. from the age of seven i grew up watching the Simpson around dinner time and such, and have come to see that they maintain a high level of intellectualism, in modern media,which can be rare, considering it is a cartoon carried on a corporate backed network.

the dark stuff is what filled the universe before the big bang...all matter we see now came from the big bang ( hole punched into this universe from another ).. just like oil and washing liquid dont mix matter and dark matter repel each other..thats why stars planets etc or sphere shaped because thats the tightest shape it can be squeezed equally on all sides.. the dark flow they have seen is merely dark matter flowing between two eras of dense matter...

Originally posted by Osama Bin Laden at Area 5

Originally posted by drsmooth23
reply to post by Osama Bin Laden at Area 5

 

well i just threw a cat up into it, and a taco came out. dont get to excited, it didnt have any cheese on it.

well how can i turn myself into a light being or highly charged nuetron

Mabe try sticking a nuetron bomb up your jacksy

hope this helps

Dark Flow. Hmmmm! Perhaps what we have here is a "river" flowing through the universe. Or currents in the vast ocean to space. All we have to do is figure out how to ride them. This may be the way that humans will eventually spread out through the universe. It may be that mankind is truly on the verge of getting off this rock!
This is truly exciting!