how true ron paul is to his words. thank you ron.

Originally posted by VDOG.45
When President Franklin D. Roosevelt's decision to go off the gold standard in 1933 the signaled the end of America long before most of us where born!!!

England stayed the course with basing their money on Sterling silver. America's money has no value what so ever with regards to precious metal.

It never has and never will since the inception of the Federal Reserve

I appreciate your desire to stand by your convictions, but it has to be pointed out: The country wasn't on a purely gold standard until 1900, and the Federal Reserve came into effect in 1913. It's been theorized that our strict adherence to the gold standard may have contributed greatly to the misery of the Great Depression. We were only on a true gold standard for 33 years.

Just denying ignorance here, which seems to be the charter of ATS.

I hope that the decision to accept the Mark of the Beast doesn't come in my lifetime or in my childrens' lifetime, but it may be too late for that sort of wishful thinking.

Originally posted by cebadec
starred and flag...while i don't personally agree with many of Dr. Ron Paul's point of view on many of the issues...his willingness to be HONEST with the people is a true breath of fresh air....and couple that with his "predicting" (more like pointing out the truth to the american populace) that this economic disaster was coming...

About the only thing I like about the man is that he's serving as a catalyst for debate. That, and he doesn't give in to the childish behavior you see from other politicians.

I think most of what I don't like about him is what atheists don't like about Christ: His followers. That's a pretty apt analogy, I think, because I've seen people who don't read the Bible scream and shout about the rest of the world is blind to the Truth, and that they alone have seen the light. Similarly, anyone who doesn't fall in line with the Ron Paul supporters is "asleep" and "sheeple." Everywhere I go that has a Ron Paul post has vast volumes of...empty platitutdes about how great Ron Paul is; and how, because we haven't rolled over and accepted RP as our new Lord and master, we're "asleep."

Substance, people, is it too much to ask for?

I'll admit I've not read his book. OK? How many of you have read von Mises or Rothbard, though?

How many of you have given more than a moment's thought to the claim that the 19th century was a time of economic stability, a period of merely mild deflation?

How many of you have given more than a moment's thought to the claim that the business cycle is the fault of the Fed?

How many of you advocate privatization of functions of the Federal government in an effort to shrink the government, yet want the "illegal" Fed abolished? How many of you realize that claim is as tenuous as "separation of church and state"? How many of you realize how few years it took for the dollar to collapse when Congress was in control of it?

Virtually every Libertarian-leaning essay I've read contains great distortions of the truth, in order to make their own case.

Doubtless, von Mises and Rothbard were geniuses of their fields, but they should have stuck firmly to their fields. von Mises actually believed that, under a gold standard, inflation was virtually impossible. Yet, history records inflationary and deflationary periods under purely gold standards--inflationary when new gold was discovered, and deflationary when your enemies took your gold at swordpoint.

Rothbard correctly pointed out that the problem which led to the Great Depression was loose credit standards, which is what we've seen these past few years. However, Rothbard also felt we could do away with State control almost entirely, and that such functions COULD be taken over by private individuals, who could hire police, have roads built, etc. Sound familiar? Sounds like feudalism to me. Not too much of a stretch to believe that one affluent person would conquer over others. Hmm...what did Marx say the ultimate end of capitalism was?

Folks...I'm not going to let a financial crisis and a severe distrust of the government (which I have) rush me to embrace a neo-Feudalist society. If our Founding Fathers didn't want us to use fiat currency, they DEFINITELY didn't want us to have lords and a King. Don't accept one form of fiscal slavery over another.

I have more to say, but I'm being too wordy for one post.

So maybe I shouldn't have Stoli before a post. Please forgive my Professor Drunkard mode of thought here.

I readily acknowledge that I'm not an economist, but neither is Dr. Paul. To his credit, he doesn't fully embrace the gold standard (which is good, because we're in too deep to go to a pure gold standard again)

I wish I could find it again, because it was brilliant, and naturally I forgot to make a Firefox bookmark or a delicious bookmark, but it was an essay talking about different types of fiat throughout history, and the reasons they failed. It ALSO discussed various sound money systems which also failed, gave great reasons why we are not like Rome, or the Weimar Republic, and what I felt was a sound strategy--keep changing the way money works, every 30 years or so, just in time for the current standard to fail.

Before I go into this, I want to point out the reason I think von Mises and Rothbard are wrong on some things, despite being brilliant, is that they're incredibly naive--to the point that they felt everything could be explained by economics. Cain and Abel could not be explained by economics, sorry. Also, von Mises' theories on how capitalism could work seem to hinge on people being rational--a fatal error.

And although I linked RP to Libertarianism, I really doubt he'd support the Rothbard extremism, or at least I hope he would.

I suppose my problem with the staunch gold standard types is that they don't understand that such systems, which is that any time someone becomes a rich power, they become a target. Fort Knox exists for a reason, yes, and it's because a hard-asset money is a target. You could argue that putting it in circulation makes it harder to hit, yes, but one has to take great care to make sure nobody's "cutting" the gold (devaluing the currency) and you have to keep it out of the hands of foreigners.

Another suggestion I've seen is to use infrastructure as a basis for sound money. Are you kidding me???!? We tend to congregate in cells, known as towns and cities. The infrastructure tends to follow the humans. How many cities are there in the U.S.? How few nukes would it take to not only wipe out most Americans, but completely destroy the currency at the same time?

I could go on. I've not seen a plan yet that a moment's thought cannot shoot down. I will agree that our current system is pretty freakin' stupid, though.

My own feeling is that it's not fiat, but lousy policy which makes fiat fail. Under fiat, the money itself isn't worth anything (which is where "worthless paper" comes in), but it represents what someone else thinks you're worth. For example, let's say you live in a fancy suburb, and your kid goes to work for Wal-Mart as a cashier, and gets paid $10/hour. Running a cash register for an hour has been assigned a numerical value. Your kid wants an iPod, which is $150 of that worthless paper, and your kid buys it at Wal-Mart on the employee discount. So, your kid can put in about a week of work, and get an iPod out of the deal. Under a strict Austrian view, Wal-Mart is giving up a hard asset for nothing--which completely ignores that your kid worked 15 hours to a piece of Chinese junk.

To me, fiat isn't worthless--but bickering about what our ultimate goal for fiscal policy, in light of a pressing economic disaster, is quite worthless.

I've made a habit of reading career politicians' writing with a jaded eye, and I hate to say it, but RP sets of my BS-o-meter quite a bit. I mean, amongst other things, he proposes pork, excuses it as in the interest of his constituents, then votes against it to uphold is principles. And, frankly, he's manipulated the media so that he'll ignore him. Men of honor do not engage in this sort of behavior; however, career Washington politicians do.

Again, I respect RP for getting the discussion going, and for presenting his views, but I respect little else about him. Sorry to piss you off, but I'm "awake," too.

I hope that if elections are canceled, and Bush tries to pull a "Palpatine", that someone does what MUST be done... the drastic action I dare not actually say.... but it may have to happen.

The Constitution does say when we've had enough, it's time to send them packing. And it may take some of the most drastic 'terrorist' action needed to dig them out and get rid of them. And according to Palpati- I mean- Bush, ANYONE can be a terrorist, just by disagreeing with what the govt says and does. 9/11 seems to have solved that problem for him. Interestingly enough.

The only person that can lead us is Ron paul, hopefully he still works his way up and strengthens his gatherings. Only then if hes assassinated will people realize the 'Elite' have a demonic agenda in store. So horrible to realize it takes murder and a crooked agenda to bring people together. Senseless oppression.

Ron Paul's honesty lost him the Presidency. Whomever the "elitists" want in the White House, they'll have!

Suggested reading for those who want to know the truth ... The Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins. I highly recommend reading this book. It's all about this central bank garbage and guess who it leads back to ... Rothchilds!

All of this economic mess has been orchestrated by the little "elitists" club. Heard in an interview with an Alaskan missionary that the elites want McCain in the White House ... we'll see who wins!

I'd love to see a voter boycott on November 4th! I'm going to vote for Joe the Plumber!

Please, read the book for so many unanswered questions. Ezra Pound was put into a federal mental institution for over 13 years because he tried to tell the truth about this government!!

Can we get Ron Paul to join this forum? That would be awesome.

all I can say is wow...

and thanks for the email post!

Ron Paul is the last great hope for America. It hurts me to the core that we were denied Ron Paul for our President. Next election vote for Ron Paul!

I'm not sure how right or wrong Dr. Paul is about gold standard but anything beats what we are doing now.

Inflation runs away when you have paper currencies that are based out of thin air. I mean you can see that just in the last couple years. I used to get a candy bar for 50 cents at the most. I'm 20. Now, I pay about 85 cents.

I think Dr. Paul was laughed off the stage and he was belittled by everyone from the Fox News Anchors to the pundits. They were definitely afraid of his message and why shouldn't they be?

The worst of all of this is in order for we the average citizen to stop this monster that the government has become from swallowing us whole we may have to take actions that have not been seen in this country in over a century. God help us all if it comes to that.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by ch1ldofthe70s]

Originally posted by MsSmartypants
Ron Paul is the last great hope for America. It hurts me to the core that we were denied Ron Paul for our President. Next election vote for Ron Paul!

Will do! I've been digging and following Ron Paul ever since I heard him talk on the Alex Jones show. Seems like a really good guy who speaks the truth.

Thanks for the post. S&F.

All the Ron Paul supporters should from our own Nation.