Filtering Freemasons

Hello fellow ATS Members..

Ok, So after many people suggesting that Freemasonry is a lot more than it seems and that most people are totally unaware of what’s going on 'above' them, I've decided to make a thread which discusses this.

Lets keeping an open mind here, lets give the benefit of assuming their correct for the rest of this post.


Ok, So Freemasonry is out to filter through the people they deem worthy and the ones who will just sit around and have dinner every second week, totally unaware that 'Joe Blogs' who joined mid way last year is now being 'ushered of to the side' to where the real action is happening.

Lets start off by all discussing how exactly:

1- People are chosen by ballet votes, Simply everyone who fits the basic Freemasonry criteria are allowed ?

2- How people who are more aware pick up on suited individuals, Some people have said to me that you have to say certain things; Perhaps we could share suggestions about what these things maybe ?

3- Where, Why, When and How are these people then pasted on to other degrees of masonry; Forgetting the first 3 degrees.


Please no silly answers like “Hail Satan!” Whilst eating dinner. Lets keep this nice and clean!


- - -

[edit on 24-9-2008 by ButterBricks]

Originally posted by ButterBricks
1- People are chosen by ballet votes, Simply everyone who fits the basic Freemasonry criteria are allowed ?

This is indeed true. A belief in Diety, good moral and social standing and the recommendation of one (and in some jurisdictions two) Masons are necessary to be investigated and then balloted upon.

2- How people who are more aware pick up on suited individuals, Some people have said to me that you have to say certain things; Perhaps we could share suggestions about what these things maybe ?

I would be curious to see any responses to this that could actually pose a believable answer, other then, "He looks like someone who could help us dominate the profanes."

3- Where, Why, When and How are these people then pasted on to other degrees of masonry; Forgetting the first 3 degrees.

You are making an erroneous leap in logic. You do not get 'pasted'(sic) on to the 'other degrees'. These are opted for by the indivudal Mason who wishes to explore them and are not part of a system of degrees but are instead part of appendant bodies which teach further allegorical lessons.

These lessons do not supercede the ones taught in the Blue Lodge degrees but suplement them and are by no means required. These bodies operate in the same way as Blue Lodge Masonry. Candidates are initiated by viewing the degrees. They are then admonished to attend meetings and hopefully learn and participate in the same degrees the witnessed so as to demonstrate the allegorical 'plays' to future initiates of the appendant body.


Please no silly answers like “Hail Satan!” Whilst eating dinner. Lets keep this nice and clean!


- - -

[edit on 24-9-2008 by ButterBricks]

I came across an interesting passage this morning and this seems like an appropriate place to post it.

For non-masons to consider -

Is it possible that we (masons) make much more out of the 'mystery' or 'secrecy' than really exists so we can arouse curiosity and increase our ranks?

We can't and don't recruit directly, but lots of people are drawn to the fraternity of their own accord. Is it because of a desire to help others or is it more curiosity of what goes on?

I know for me anyway it was a curiosity about what goes on. I wasn't familiar with the charitable works of the organization because they aren't well publicized, but I couldn't stand not knowing the 'mystery' and 'secret'.

For whatever reason people join, many (like me) stay because what I found was far more interesting and enlightening than silly secrets, handshakes and passwords. I found a group of normal guys who like to have fun and help others.

It's interesting, then, to find that in the old days we had the same controversies we have today.

Malcom C. Duncan expresses it thusly:

The object of the Order in making a profound mystery of its proceedings is obvious enough. Sea-birds are not more in-variably attracted toward a lighted beacon on a dark night, than men to whatever savors of mystery. Curiosity has had a much greater influence in swelling the ranks of Masonry than philanthropy and brotherly love.

This is as true today as when it was written.

In 1866.

Originally posted by ButterBricks

1- People are chosen by ballet votes, Simply everyone who fits the basic Freemasonry criteria are allowed ?

In my opinion People petition the lodge and have recomendations of other Masons who are in good standing. A good Mason would not recomend someone who did not fit the criteria. That sounds kind of conceded, but you wouldn't recomend your daughter date a convicted rapist. So the saying in masonry is that we make a good man better. Not that we want to make a bad man a good man. Again, just my opinion.



2- How people who are more aware pick up on suited individuals, Some people have said to me that you have to say certain things; Perhaps we could share suggestions about what these things maybe ?

In my expirience, all you have to do is express your intrest in masonry to a Mason and they take the rest from there. During my investigation, the master of the lodge just asked my why I was interested. I just told the truth. Then I asked him for his reasurance that none of the stuff these anti masons say is going on. After being a Mason for a couple of years now, I find it hard to imagine how he kept a straight face when I asked those questions.



3- Where, Why, When and How are these people then pasted on to other degrees of masonry; Forgetting the first 3 degrees.




The other organizations have active members trying to increase membership. More members= more dues paid= more good you can do for others. I can see where that philosophy is dangerous on a corruptable scale, but being that the folks running these organizations are masons first, they have a higher moral responsibility to their brother masons. I am not a fan of Organized religion for that very reason.

So in short, Once you are a mason, you will be asked to be a part of the other organizations by brothers. Once you find out what that organization is all about you decide if it is for you or not. The Scottish Rite was explained to me by a brother who told me that it involved more of the teachings of Jesus Christ where as Masonry only dealt with the Great Architect of the Universe. Being a christian, I felt that was a logical step for me. I was not disapointed.

I noticed that, for further advances it helps to be a christian. I think it opens more doors than being in another religion. So if you wanted to get "to the top level" this might be something to consider.

Interesting topic... for the sake of argument granting the posit that there are higher level Masons, how do they pick their new members from the general low-level Masonic population?

Well, let's look at how it works in other, not as Machiavellian side orders. The bits I'm most familiar with would be stemming from the Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction:

1. Knights of St. Andrew — Shortly after joining the Scottish Rite and receiving my degrees at a reunion, I was pulled aside by one of my friends after a general stated meeting and inducted into the K∴S∴A∴. In this case, I was tapped. Knights of St. Andrew are a service organization within the Scottish Rite. They're your front line go-to guys when you need volunteers to move chairs & tables, or ask someone to fill a seat. Traditionally they're black cap 32° Masons. No red cap K∴C∴C∴H∴ or white cap 33°s may join, and if a K∴S∴A∴ member is tapped to receive a red cap, he may still remain a non-voting member of K∴S∴A∴, but is not eligible to be an officer at the next election. Some believe that by being in the K∴S∴A∴ it makes you more visible to those who may elevate you to K∴C∴C∴H∴ or eventually 33°.
   
2. Royal Order of the Duck — Again, I was tapped. I don't know if this was by decree or by ballot. I received a letter saying I'd been invited to join, and was told when and where the initiation would be taking place. The Ducks are the stage crew and canteen of the Scottish Rite. I'd actually helped out my blue lodge brethren in moving and sorting some of their stage materials before I'd ever joined the Scottish Rite, and even though my own reunion lasted a good 14 or 15 hours, I stayed afterwards and helped strike the sets, pack the props, wrap cables etc. Someone noticed my work and I was asked to join a few months later.
   
3. K∴C∴C∴H∴ & 33° — In truth, only the 33°s really know the mechanics of how more 33°s are made, but I've heard that every two years the red cap K∴C∴C∴H∴ members are asked to nominate any black cap 32° members that they believe should receive the K∴C∴C∴H∴. Presumably, the 33°s make a similar list for red caps. In addition, the 33°s nominate red cap K∴C∴C∴H∴ members for possible elevation to 33°. I don't know if once those nominations have been made the 33°s hold a vote, or if the Personal Representative to the S∴G∴I∴G∴ chooses from the nominees or what.
   

So your guess is as good as mine. Tapped, nominated, balloted or chosen. Could be any (or all) of the above.

(Of course, the #1 proof that "high level Masons" don't exist? The fact that you can't order lapel pins for them online...)

[edit on 9/24/2008 by JoshNorton]

Originally posted by monkeybus
I noticed that, for further advances it helps to be a christian. I think it opens more doors than being in another religion. So if you wanted to get "to the top level" this might be something to consider.

Whether or not Christian appendant bodies have any greater power than any other appendant bodies, I would agree that there is a greater number of specifically Christian Masonic side orders than of any other religion or sub-group of which I am aware.

[edit on 9/24/2008 by JoshNorton]

The next big question is obviously "Where & when could such a group meet?"

Being a Masonic body, any meetings of the HLM (High Level Masons) would involve a fair amount of pomp & ritual. Meetings would take time, would require at least a minimum number of members be present for business to be conducted, etc.

The building where my lodge meets is shared by 4 other lodges, bodies of the York & Scottish Rites, Eastern Star and De Molay. As such the building association has to post a calendar so that everyone knows who's using the building when, or who's going to be running the kitchen a specific night, etc.

If HLMs exist, our building would be a natural place for them to meet. But how would they do so while staying under the radar? Do they use a blue lodge as a front? One group that for some weird reason never has guests from other lodges, never takes affiliated membership? Do they meet at the building on a day when its ostensibly closed? (And wouldn't a regular brother driving by see all the cars in the parking lot and wonder what was going on?)

Originally posted by JoshNorton
(And wouldn't a regular brother driving by see all the cars in the parking lot and wonder what was going on?)

They're all reptilian shapeshifters, so they wouldn't need cars, now would they?

Besides; meetings are for low-level Masons who have not learned the art of Masonic Triad Telepathy.

The HLM's are kind of like the Borg, I think. Hive mind.

Originally posted by The Axeman
Besides; meetings are for low-level Masons who have not learned the art of Masonic Triad Telepathy.

The HLM's are kind of like the Borg, I think. Hive mind.

Note to self: do not piss off the telepathic Tyler.

reply to post by JoshNorton


These are good points.

In theory HLMs would need a lodge room to conduct meetings if it were indeed a masonic organization.

Our temple has two lodge rooms and we have three blue lodges that meet there in addition to chapter, council, commandery, white shrine, amaranth, OES, rainbow girls, demolay etc.

It would be hard to NOT be noticed unless you were there at 3am on a Thursday or something.

The only guy I know that would even have the wherewithal to be a 'HLM' is Charlie. He recently was 'tapped' for KYCH and has been just about everything from Grand Lodge to High Priest to AADDGHP, AADDGM, etc etc.

He spend most of his time doing Shrine stuff but he still comes to every meeting and appendant body meeting, etc.

He is also kind, gently, funny and really OLD. If anyone was controlling us he would be a very effective person to do it - (if he doesn't fall asleep in the Steward's chair)

reply to post by emsed1


You labor under the assumption that there would be any formal meetings at all. At private homes, in the study, with lots of cigar smoke is how these meetings are likley envisioned.

A public meeting place, even if it's a "secret" meeting, invites discovery.

I would imagine there would be some kind of covert means of communications and a revolving meeting place. These are assumed to be powerful, rich men, so it stands to reason that they could all move about the country with impunity and would have access to secure means of communication.

Then you only have to account for conspicuous absences from the day-to-day lives of these HLM's, which could be difficult, especially since only they would know who they were...

reply to post by The Axeman


Why, my Brother, it appears as though you know quite a bit about how these elusive "High Level Masons" operate! How could that be?!

Of course then in addition to the other problems cited, how would the infamous HLMs use masonry for evil when the entire nature of the organization is not organized for such ends? How can great evil be achieved with such decentralization, with no one lodge having any say so in the affairs of the other, and with over 50 grand lodges in the US alone (not counting prince hall)? And how would us low level masons (LLMs) be used in such a way if we do not recognize the power or existence of a HLM? Even if posting as a LLM, I would never do something bad on "orders" from another mason. About the only thing I listen to are orders to come to the fish fry! Oh, the humanity!

Originally posted by LowLevelMason
Why, my Brother, it appears as though you know quite a bit about how these elusive "High Level Masons" operate! How could that be?!

I've been told I'm observant.

Of course then in addition to the other problems cited, how would the infamous HLMs use masonry for evil when the entire nature of the organization is not organized for such ends?

Because the HLM's bet on people joining the fraternity for just that purpose! Mercenary motives, if you will. It's easy for a bad person to say "why yeah, by golly, I do agree with all that, er, stuff you said!" Someone of that sort could easily place his hand on a bible and lie. People do it all the time in court. To think that no one of them has ever thought to join Masonry to "get ahead" or "get in on the action" is ridiculous.

How can great evil be achieved with such decentralization, with no one lodge having any say so in the affairs of the other, and with over 50 grand lodges in the US alone (not counting prince hall)?

That's a rather good question. But the truth of it is we would be talking about a very small group of men compared to the overall membership. People who didn't neccesarily join Masonry to control Masonry but to meet other conspirators in a "secure" environment, if you will.

Besides, according to the conspiracy theories, these would be 33° or KT's, or some other side order we don't know about that has degrees with big numbers or ominous names.

And how would us low level masons (LLMs) be used in such a way if we do not recognize the power or existence of a HLM?

By doing exactly what you are doing now. Telling people they have nothing to worry about.

Even if posting as a LLM, I would never do something bad on "orders" from another mason.

And why would a HLM want you to do that? Or give you orders? He's looking for the ones who are willing/ready to take orders... you're obviously not the sort he's looking for...

About the only thing I listen to are orders to come to the fish fry! Oh, the humanity!

Your fish fry is what keeps people from looking at his smoke-filled study!

The way the LLM's would be used by the HLM's would be to just be normal joes, and to be appalled at the idea that their fraternity could be manipulated in such a way. Indeed, it wouldn't be -- it would simply be, to the HLM, a means to meet, communicate with, and recruit other conspirators in an ostensibly benign setting, and also to make it appear as though he's there for the same reason as you. Hence, you will readily attest to his character and all around good-guyness; even though he's really an a-hole, you just don't know it.

Mind you, I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

I wanted to interject a new acronym here - MLM

Mid-level masons are sort of middle management.

I just took the 5th degree so I can boss around all the LLMs in blue lodge.

Also, do the HLMs have a pin?


I digress... sorry for the sarcastic derail.

reply to post by The Axeman


Brother, your just too devious! HLM in the making?

I must ponder however, what is the purpose of a HLM if they can't use the MLM or LLM's? It seems relying on people to join for world domination is not productive, as they would have to find such people and in doing so would be exposed. After all, if the HLMs go around asking LLMs whose up for some maniacal and devious world domination exploits, all those LLMs who have not joined for world-domination purposes would have exposed them. I guess the HLMs could kill off ALL the LLMs that did that, but then we'd see a rather large amount of new candidates winding up dead after initiation.

To expound upon the decentralization problem, masonry offers no method to control other masons. Even just VISITING another lodge causes massive formalities that have to be observed, and is not productive for quick & efficient world domination. I suppose you could be right and HLMs are all in the York/Scottish rites, but it has the same decentralization issue.

The problem becomes this: If only the HLMs (and conspiracy theorists - somehow...) know that the HLMs exist, and its such a small number, and no MLM or LLM knows about the HLMs or would do anything for them, what is the point of having HLM? Why not go to a pub and plot world domination? It seems like creating and maintaining levels and shutting out all the millions of LLMs is a bit too much work just for a few HLM's - the HLM's would spend all their time maintaining concealment from the LLMs, and then how could they plot for world domination?

A much simpler way to do things is to just meet in private, or start a charity. Much less work, same goals. Why go through more trouble and use masonry to do it?

[edit on 25-9-2008 by LowLevelMason]

reply to post by LowLevelMason


Great point about starting a charity.

Even though we are a non-profit organization we do pay taxes and are not considered a charity.

I think if you wanted money and no questions asked you could start a charity and meet in your basement and NOT in huge public buildings with people around.

Even better would be a church.

A catholic priest in my town was arrested last week for selling coc aine out of his office at the church.

Ok... don't think this going anywhere anymore.
Funny though.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
Ok... don't think this going anywhere anymore.
Funny though.

Shame, I had only good intentions for this thread; thought it was really alternative. I swear some people just can't help themselves..

Anyways ATS is well known for it, Can someone PM me if they know any underground fourm sites or perhaps anything like an IRC Channel, Even email contact networks ? -Any help Greatly appreciated!

[edit on 27-9-2008 by ButterBricks]

Originally posted by ButterBricks
Shame, I had only good intentions for this thread; thought it was really alternative. I swear some people just can't help themselves..

Hey, I gave some fairly thought out responses. Care to reply to any of those before declaring the thread dead?

And before you go running off to find another forum, you might try participating here more. 7 posts in 9 months isn't exactly active...

[edit on 9/27/2008 by JoshNorton]