Trickle-Down Economics is a BiG FaT JoKe!

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posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by kettlebellysmith
 

Puhleese!!! It's hard for people to find a job when we've lost over 600,000 of them so far this year.

According to US Bureau of Labor & Statistics August report, over 5% of US workers are working more than one job. "Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that."

Trickle down is a failure. Bush's speech tonight was a joke. His administration has been a joke.




posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
reply to post by mental modulator
 
Maybe you need to realized the very people who are voting for income redistribution are wealthy. Do you see Obama giving away the proceeds of his book? He has mad several million? Do you see those bastions to the democratic party, who are constantly voting for entitlements that you pay for, giving away their fortune? Income redistribution is done by taxing my hard earned dollars and giving to people who have never worked a day in their lives. Don't talk to me about my generation dying off, so there can be progress. Instead, tell these lazy bums who expect us to support them to get off their butts and get a job!



AS we have become aware recently the BILLIONAIRES could give a flying crap about AMERICA. YET it seems you are still defending this "logic". I still believe that lowering the rich tax code more---- and more------ and more--------- and more---------- Is absolutely ridiculous.

OBAMA is for shifting the tax code back to a point that favors the middle class... MANY MORE Americans would benefit from this move... BUSINESSES would absorb the "tax" money the middle class spends at a much faster rate then giving it to MR BUFFET $457,000,000,000.00...

MORE money, being spent at a faster rate, by more people goes WHERE???


HMMMMM??????????


TO BUSINESSES!

BINGO!


DO you forget that EISENHOWER R taxed the top 1% at 90%....

Hell CARTER left office with the lowest national debt in history.

REGAN and BUSH JR hold the record for the largest debts incurred, in office, in HISTORY.

BUSH JR has increased spending more than any other president in history.

ON to ENTITLEMENTS,,, PSSH!

The most amusing thing is that you used the term "redistribution of wealth."

WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS BAILOUT IS????

Further more, redistribution of wealth is giving a billionaire a 3.6% line of credit and then charging a person who makes $20,000 a year 18% for the same loan...

CHRIST himself went after the money lenders.

MY generation is liberal - HELL --the kids TEN years younger than myself, make me look like DAVID DUKE.

THIS conservative ideology has failed once again.

THE crusty old adage of trickle down corprofascim is dying... BELIEVE THAT!



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by mrwupy
I remember Ronald Reagan used to say, "A rising tide lifts all boats." and after Jimmy Carter I seriously bought into that.

Sure enough the tide started rising and I was singing his praises. The tide kept going up and up and up and made it all the way to my neck before I stopped and realized, hey, wait a minute;

I DON'T OWN A BOAT!

I've been dog paddling like crazy ever since just to keep my head above water. Most of the people I know have been doing the same.

I loved Ronald Reagen but I have to admit, when he deregulated everything he did nothing more than give a green light to corporate crime and greed.

Those who followed in his footsteps have erased accountability so no one is held responsible for the theft of America, no one except the tax payer.

Now, as a last hurrah of his administration dubya wants to give a trillion dollars to the thieves who have already stole a trillion from us.

It's almost enough to make me vote for Obama, If I didn't already know that he's owned by corporate America just as McCain is.

Still, Ronald Reagan made you feel good while he was screwing you. I don't blame Nancy for marrying him


DON'T worry friend change is coming!

Aint no lubrication at our celebration and everyone is invited!



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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smoke and mirrors? thats a good one , I suppose next I'll learn that we need more government oversight, with lots and lots more do nothing pencil neck types. Preferably all good liberals, Right?

Give me a break



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 09:59 PM
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Just wanted to ask a question to those posters who favor "taxing the rich," where does the middle class get their income from? Corporations? Businesses?

Nah that couldn't be it.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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The trickle down theory is sort of like communism.. They both sound good on paper. Similarly, they both leave it up to humans to oversee the operation.

Communism- a man must completely distribute nation's wealth and resources to everyone. Leaving much room to take for himself.

Trickle Down Theory- a man must use extra revenue to create more jobs. Leaving much room to take for himself.

See a similarity? Both theories require honesty, something the human population doesn't possess.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by nyk537


You want to point fingers and make this a partisan issue, but it's not. You want to blame this on Reagan? or Bush? or the Republicans?


Both sides are corrupt, its good cop bad cop.

With that said, it is Reagan and the republicans fault. They are the ones that said we need to have free trade and no tariffs. This made our jobs get sucked overseas faster than you could blink. Before the Reagan era we had good jobs here and they were protected and it would cost more to move your operations overseas than to keep them here. Now without the Government protecting the people from big business it is more cost effective to ship the jobs.




I just feel that free market is the best fit.



How is that? We were told that we need to get a better education because the factory jobs are going overseas. That was a lie to buy them time. You want to know how bad it is? Computer 3D animation is now being outsourced to India and China. So is IT. So is help desk. So is everything that we are re-educating ourselves to adapt.

I dont want a socialist system, I just want to be protected by our REPUBLIC from the international corporations that are so large we cannot defend ourselves from them.

How are we the people better off than we were? A growing number of us are getting so we cannot afford housing and fuel. Soon we wont even be able to afford to eat.

I have to ask you....have you really thought about all this? The greedy rich have always run the old world Governments and the reason for the revolution to begin with was because of that very reason. Now it has caught up to us.

I am going to post a music video by the Eagles called "The Last Resort" I will also post the lyrics. This is what it is all about, if you open your mind and listen and feel with your heart you will see the light. If not you shall live in the dark. The old world has chased us all the way until the new world ended at the West Coast. It is NOW time to turn and make our STAND or lay down and be slaves. That is what it is all about and its what this great song is about.

She came from Providence,
the one in Rhode Island
Where the old world shadows hang
heavy in the air
She packed her hopes and dreams
like a refugee
Just as her father came across the sea
She heard about a place people were smilin'
They spoke about the red man's way,
and how they loved the land
And they came from everywhere
to the Great Divide
Seeking a place to stand
or a place to hide

Down in the crowded bars,
out for a good time,
Can't wait to tell you all,
what it's like up there
And they called it paradise
I don't know why
Somebody laid the mountains low
while the town got high

Then the chilly winds blew down
Across the desert
through the canyons of the coast, to
the Malibu
Where the pretty people play,
hungry for power
to light their neon way
and give them things to do

Some rich men came and raped the land,
Nobody caught 'em
Put up a bunch of ugly boxes, and Jesus,
people bought 'em
And they called it paradise
The place to be
They watched the hazy sun, sinking in the sea

You can leave it all behind
and sail to Lahaina
just like the missionaries did, so many years ago
They even brought a neon sign: "Jesus is coming"
Brought the white man's burden down
Brought the white man's reign

Who will provide the grand design?
What is yours and what is mine?
'Cause there is no more new frontier
We have got to make it here

We satisfy our endless needs and
justify our bloody deeds,
in the name of destiny and the name of God

And you can see them there,
On Sunday morning
They stand up and sing about
what it's like up there
They call it paradise
I don't know why
You call someplace paradise,
kiss it goodbye

[edit on 24-9-2008 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 

Lets see... starting two years into the Reagan presidency, there was over 86 months of economic growth. I won't try to convince anyone; read some highlights then check the link to read more:

From external source:
1- Under President Reagan, federal revenues increased even with tax cuts, federal spending did not decrease, the country experienced the longest period of sustained growth during peacetime in its history, and the rich paid more taxes proportionately than they had before the tax cuts were implemented.

2- Contrary to popular myth, while inflation-adjusted defense spending increased by 50 percent between 1980 and 1989, it was curtailed when the Cold War ended and fell by 15 percent between 1989 and 1993. However, means-tested entitlements, which do not include Social Security or Medicare, rose by over 102 percent between 1980 and 1993, and they have continued climbing ever since.
www.heritage.org...



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by zappafan1
 


Ummm... The Heritage Foundation? Hardly a bastion of objectivity being a conservative think-tank and all. However, zap, you were kind enough to post this, so I will read the article carefully and post a rebuttal. I will look forward to your response once I do.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by LoneGunMan
 

Geez.... what crapola. More proof that the sooner the left coast falls into the water the better.

Do some research, and forget what your Marxist teachers told you (I bet you believe in human-caused global warming, don't you?) The current economic crises is the result of the Socialist/Marxist policies instigated by Mr. Peanut in 1979 with the Community Reinvestment Act. Government forcing the banks through threat and intimidation..... and law..... to give loans to people who didn't have enough money to buy a Happy Meal. That idled along until ex-president Pantload got hold of it and put the program on steroids. A year ago he boasted on his website that he was responsible for 90 percent of the loans made to low-income people. Sort of interesting that now it's not there.

Government cannot give "the American Dream" to anyone. It has to be earned



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by zappafan1
 


How about using your OWN perception instead of quoting a conservative think tank. Look around...America is falling apart because the pigs have had free reign at the trough for over 30 years.

You people are amazing...



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by zappafan1
reply to post by LoneGunMan
 

Geez.... what crapola. More proof that the sooner the left coast falls into the water the better.




I am not left you bible belt goober. The left and the right are serving the same dish, why cant you understand that.

It is because of extreme deregulation that has created this mess of our jobs going overseas.

The banking crisis is because of greed...dont blame the people for being slick talked into a dream from Madison street level brainwashing. The banks KNEW they could get as greedy as they wanted and the Gov would bail them out. They did it with INTENT! The people did it because they had too.

Bail out AMERICAN people not the banks that raped the system.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by tommy_boy
reply to post by zappafan1
 


Ummm... The Heritage Foundation? Hardly a bastion of objectivity being a conservative think-tank and all. However, zap, you were kind enough to post this, so I will read the article carefully and post a rebuttal. I will look forward to your response once I do.


Thanks for the fair shake.... sometimes very rare on ATS. Since the topic was the Reagan economic policies, makes sense to go to the one place on earth that has more info on the man than anywhere on earth. Actually, the lowering of tax rates did not start with Reagan. Queen Elizabeth the 1st did it; also John Kennedy, then Reagan, and it works every time to allow the people who earned it to keep more of their money, while at the same time the government receives more in taxes. Think of this: when your local grocery (or ???) has a sale, do they do it to lose money? Anytime you lower the cost of doing something, more people will engage in that activity.

By the way, I'm not a Republican, to those to who it might matter, I'm a Constitutional Conservative.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
reply to post by zappafan1
 


How about using your OWN perception instead of quoting a conservative think tank. Look around...America is falling apart because the pigs have had free reign at the trough for over 30 years.

You people are amazing...


Free reign at the trough??? Funny how those who received that same "free reign" are the ones who caused this mess. So.... the figures from the OMB and other sources didn't make a dent? Hey Einstein.... this isn't about "perceptions", it's about cold hard facts. I've been studying education and economics for 35 years, and I didn't do it in our (failed) colleges. Look at Slim Shady (Obama)... he graduated Harvard with a degree in economics, and I could debate him under the table. It's so easy to see that he's an anti-capitalist, anti-American Marxist, just like everyone who has surrounded him since the age of 12.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by zappafan1
Hey Einstein.... this isn't about "perceptions", it's about cold hard facts.


The cold hard facts are that hard working middle class Americans are losing there homes because of not being able to get out of a rising interest rate because of an ARM loan. They cannot get decent paying jobs because the decent paying jobs are in China getting done at slave wages. So they tried to get a house on an ARM loan so they could pay for a house at the same price as an apartment. Most of them are defaulting because of this. How about fixing there rate at something they could afford. Most could get by with 7-8 percent interest. Most of them got into the loan above prime but cannot afford it when it went to over 10-12 percent.

The same people that sold them this BS are the ones being bailed out. Bail out the American families first, its OUR money! Children are being put on the street for an interest rate and low paying jobs.



[edit on 24-9-2008 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by Ketzer22
The trickle down theory is sort of like communism.. They both sound good on paper. Similarly, they both leave it up to humans to oversee the operation.


Well I certainly wouldn't want monkeys to oversee those operations



Communism- a man must completely distribute nation's wealth and resources to everyone. Leaving much room to take for himself.


Leaving much room to take for himself? Why don't you talk to people that have lived in communist countries and ask them how much room they have to take for themselves. In a communist country the government tells you how much you can have. And they do not leave "much room" for a person to take much of anything for himself.


Trickle Down Theory- a man must use extra revenue to create more jobs.


Must? They have no one telling them they "must use extra revenue to create more jobs" in a western society. But if a company has the intention of growing, they are going to have to create more jobs. Since most people enjoy making more money (making their businesses bigger), a consequence of that is that they have to hire more people.


See a similarity?


None


Both theories require honesty, something the human population doesn't possess.


One theory requires the population to be given a finite amount of income and resources which is decided in most cases by a dictator.

The other theory allows the people the freedom to make as little or as much as they dare to make.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by mental modulator

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
reply to post by mental modulator
 
Maybe you need to realized the very people who are voting for income redistribution are wealthy. Do you see Obama giving away the proceeds of his book? He has mad several million? Do you see those bastions to the democratic party, who are constantly voting for entitlements that you pay for, giving away their fortune? Income redistribution is done by taxing my hard earned dollars and giving to people who have never worked a day in their lives. Don't talk to me about my generation dying off, so there can be progress. Instead, tell these lazy bums who expect us to support them to get off their butts and get a job!



AS we have become aware recently the BILLIONAIRES could give a flying crap about AMERICA. YET it seems you are still defending this "logic". I still believe that lowering the rich tax code more---- and more------ and more--------- and more---------- Is absolutely ridiculous.

SNIP: Those "Rich" who build their huge mansions (like the one Biden has) ? OK, so some rich guy can't build a another mansion. What's the diff. Well, ask the carpenters, plumbers, electricians and building suppliers. Ask the multiple companies who design and fabricate all those materials to those suppliers. Ask all of the employees who work at those places, then ask their families.... what's the diff?

OBAMA is for shifting the tax code back to a point that favors the middle class... MANY MORE Americans would benefit from this move...
MORE money, being spent at a faster rate, by more people goes WHERE???
SNIP: Read the above.... it goes back into the economy.... to all the "little people". So you think the rich should pay MORE of the money they earned??? How's about some more facts?: the top 10% of wage earners pay almost 80% of "our" taxes, while the bottom 20% pays NOTHING!

TO BUSINESSES!

BINGO!

Hell CARTER left office with the lowest national debt in history.
SNIP: Yeah.... and double-digit interest rates, and a country woefullly hampered in it's ability to defend itself.

REGAN and BUSH JR hold the record for the largest debts incurred, in office, in HISTORY.
SNIP: Not true.

BUSH JR has increased spending more than any other president in history.
SNIP: Better reaearch as to where most of the money went, and why.

The most amusing thing is that you used the term "redistribution of wealth."

WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS BAILOUT IS????
SNIP: Unfortunately, true; I agree. But look where it started and by whom.

Further more, redistribution of wealth is giving a billionaire a 3.6% line of credit and then charging a person who makes $20,000 a year 18% for the same loan...
SNIP: You really need to look into banking practices and something called fiduciary lending responsibility. Who's more likely to pay back that loan with no problems?

MY generation is liberal - HELL --the kids TEN years younger than myself, make me look like DAVID DUKE.
SNIP: Yes.... and they didn't learn it from intuitive wisdom or by living it.... they were taught that in our failed schools.




[edit on 25-9-2008 by zappafan1]



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
Just wanted to ask a question to those posters who favor "taxing the rich," where does the middle class get their income from? Corporations? Businesses? Nah that couldn't be it.


Let me turn your statement around and say, the rich get their income from the vast labor pool of underpaid workers.

If I understand you, here is another version of what you are saying:
Where do the slaves get their food? From there masters! Without there masters, slave would starve.

That is the logic you are using here. Although your statement is true, most would say it is not a morally defensive position.

We need to tax the rich. The slaves need to take their freedom.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by zappafan1
Hey Einstein.... this isn't about "perceptions", it's about cold hard facts.


The cold hard facts are that hard working middle class Americans are losing there homes because of not being able to get out of a rising interest rate because of an ARM loan. They cannot get decent paying jobs because the decent paying jobs are in China getting done at slave wages. So they tried to get a house on an ARM loan so they could pay for a house at the same price as an apartment. Most of them are defaulting because of this. How about fixing there rate at something they could afford. Most could get by with 7-8 percent interest. Most of them got into the loan above prime but cannot afford it when it went to over 10-12 percent.

The same people that sold them this BS are the ones being bailed out. Bail out the American families first, its OUR money! Children are being put on the street for an interest rate and low paying jobs.

Most people in mortgage trouble today shouldn't have gotten the loan in the first place. Anyone with a brain wouldn't get an ARM loan to begin with if they did any research on them.
Those jobs went to China because companies here couldn't find young workers with any kind of work ethic or intelligence (thanks, public schools). Those jobs left the country because the companies, in order to compete on the global market, went kicking and screaming to get out from under over-taxation and over-arching government control.
Most people over the past 25 years, and especially the last 10, buy what they "want" instead of what they "need". They don't do the math to see that for every child they have they have to guarantee their wages will go up AT LEAST $2800 per year.


[edit on 24-9-2008 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by zappafan1
 


Zap, see the link below. Give this a read. It's from the CATO institute, and they say pretty much the same thing your other article says.

Click Here...

The problem I have with this is that the CATO Institute also isn't all that objective, it's more libertarian. Still doing my research, but I figured I'd share this with you and the other folks on this thread.

All,

Interested in your response to this article as well.





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