It seems very possible, Skyfloating, that you ( or your contact before you ) is being used somehow- or maybe not.

I say this because the piece appears to be bronze ( or possibly even brass ) , judging by the apparent presence of copper-oxides ( green and bluish traces ) on the surface. Compare the condition of this vessel with much more recent bronze cannon found in the sea.Also, the general construction of the artifact indicates metal construction ( as opposed to much more fragile ceramic, for example ). Not alot of destructive oxidation for something in a salt water environment for very long...

The object looks much like a type of Buddhist prayer bead I have seen before, though much larger and less ornate. These beads I had were from Tibet and made of Afghan lapis lazuli.

What in the heck were the divers doing in that spot ? Looking for sponges ?
Or, perhaps recovering a known ( and recent ) shipwreck ?

Of course, this thing c ould be Atlantean or anything else- but it's similarities to Asian religious artifacts and ( apparent ) construction cast doubts.

How did this artifact come into private hands ?
Did the janitor walk out with it ?
The museum closed, but there was no recievership to control the collection ? Highly unusual.

Someone is fishing for a valuation ( or at least more info ) on granma's brass tiki torch, I suspect.

If it were mine, I'd put it on the discussion boards for antiques at ebay, and just ask what it is. There's a lot of knowlege on those boards. I once had an old dress identified down to where it was made - an address of a seamstress - simply by someone that knew the buttons. There are some really smart folks there.

Well, the vessel looks like it could be made of copper or even possibly be a silver alloy and it sure does look Mayan or Chinese ( but if you compare their styles of art they usually do share many similarities). It however does not look badly rusted enough to be ancient. Do you know if the artifact has ever been cleaned and its exact composition? It is beautifull. Any one else have artifacts that have never seen exposure?

I've been trying to make an identification of the flower object and am struggling to find popular Chinese symbols that are similar to this one. The only flower that I could identify with the image is the Arum Lilly. The defining feature which made me think of this particular flower is the prominent pistol in the symbol.

It is not an exact match, and the problem with the Arum Lilly is that they are endemic only to southern Africa:


Is it just me or does anyone else think the symbol between the flower and the horned animal could be a stylised representation of two people facing each other?


If they are indeed people, I thought perhaps the flower symbol is rather a symbol of a heart? Any thoughts?

I see what you are seeing. Love the lily idea.

I got an answer from the owner regarding the material.

He says the metal is unknown and at first glance seems to be a fine brass. He says its very hard material and most likely not brass or the sweat fittings would not hold up under the extreme heat of the fire and swell and come apart.

He says the base metal is unknown and has properties simiar to steel but not magnetic.

According to him the patten is about 1mm thick and likely generated from the alloys used with the gold dipping process. He says it is properly displayed as the carbon crust shows it was burned often inside the fire motifs.

It was purchased by the owners mother from the museum and he inherited it several years ago.

Good, we know it burned fire...
I was looking at a bunch of ancient bells and they are much more bell or dome shaped and not vase shaped.

Howdy all

Ask for a photo of the two ends of the candlestick. The bottom, yes it is upside down, of such things are usually left unfinished and will show the method of construction. It appears to be candlestick holder done in a chinese or asian motif. The patina is not that of a bronze object. I would suspect a brass or other alloy. For a bronze patina look at a website that has a bronze cannon (there are numbers of them that have been recovered from the sea).

The top should show a spike or blunt rounded hallow cylinder

Its pretty now, and it must have been awesome when first made. Heres hoping that some serious scientific study can be put to it someday.

Wait a minute...whats that labeling at the bottom..."Made in Atlantis"....hmmm...clue...

So, we´ve heard reasons its from China, reasons its from the Maya, reasons its from Greece, reasons its from South Africa.

That might indicate a common source of these styles: Atlantis.

Very interesting object. Atlantian sounds exciting but hard to verify I’m afraid.

From the picture it seems the object is about 70 – 80 cm high. Is that right?
Does it have a number, a letter or a sign under the foot?

At 1st sight it looks like an umbrella-can or a grave decoration.

It seems to be a vase-like object made of bronze and copper.
(to compare the color: Google Carl Sorensen, he made metalwares on the early 1900’S “ Arts & Craft Movement)

The green color seems to be oxidised bronze. The cubic ‘swirls’ (meander-style) are often used in (old) Chinese art. Also in Roman (Etruria: Villanova-periode (900-675 BC, they were known for their work / craft with metals). Their geometric symbols were influenced by the far East.
Where the Mayans picked it up I dunno. Their civilisation was between 400 – 1100 AC.
The swirl-symbol is also used in Oceania. (like Samoa and other islands in that area)

The yellow copper decorations looks like an Arabesque symbols (the top) and in the middle part it looks like a dragon face or Medusa face. Or who knows a Neptune face

The both ornaments on both sides look typical Chinese decorations to me.

On the top were there are ‘ openings’ in the object, I've never seen something like this on a vase. But maybe it could be a Temple decoration for fire?

At 2nd sight it seems quite symmetric and I thought of Art Deco – style. But never seen Art Deco with Arabic / Chinese decoration.

Hope you will find somebody who can tell you (your friend) what it is.

I did sent an email to 2 ppl. (Mrs. Zilverberg (Archeologist & metal expert) and Mr. Beekhuizen (metalware expert) hope they can / will tell something more about the object.


I'll get back to ya as soon as I hear summin.


[edit on 9/24/2008 by Melyanna Tengwesta]

I'm sorry, but if it's right side up like in the pics, the first thing i saw was a vagina. And again, i see a penis like object a further bit down. I know I'm probably very wrong, but thats what I see. Just my 2 cents.

I'm no professor of archaeology, but I think you would have a better time tracking down the origin of this artifact by looking at some of the background engravings, like the squarish spiral, and then researching which cultures historically used the square spiral predominately in their architecture and art.

My first impression was Olmec, Mayan or Aztech, but a search on Google of art from those cultures didn't produce any pieces that matched the squarish spirals. But then, the internet is hardly the end-all, be-all in research.

If you really want an answer to where this thing came from your best bet is to contact a professor of archaeology at a university and present the pictures. The packs of smokes next to the artifact for scale was a good call.

I tried myself for quite a while to find some known examples of similar elements and came up empty. The reason is still bothers me is the protruding 'keys' on the side are so familiar they're haunting.

probably not from atlantis. atlantis went down like 13,000 years ago. although they were a very technologically advanced society, so it is possible that they could have gotten the metal off world. this would maybe explain why it isn't that corroded.

Dear Owner of the Object and/or Submitter of the Pictures.

If you are reading this thread and wish to continue to remain anonymous, but have answers to some of the questions post by the people here, I´ll post anything you send.



[edit on 24-9-2008 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
I tried myself for quite a while to find some known examples of similar elements and came up empty. The reason is still bothers me is the protruding 'keys' on the side are so familiar they're haunting.

I will take a stab at those. They appear to be for metal rings as tie downs. Possibly since they are the same in both directions there was some sort of use where it was carried but not touched.

The large oil pot is not consistent with an object carried around much although there is a narrow handle like other torches, so may be it was moved around some.