Artifact from Atlantis?

reply to post by Shawn B.


I am also interested in why you make such a positive connection between that spiral design and Atlantis. Please post on that if you get the chance

Nice Post Sky

Everybody loves a mystery.

If you are asking your acquaintance some questions, can you ask if the item is 'hollow' all the way through or if it is solid in the middle.

The '3-prong like' extensions coming off the sides almost seem to be there for a purpose, such as being part of something larger in which this would rest inside of.

As for the age of the item, I have to agree with others that it doesn't seem to fit the Atlantis time-line as we know it. Even bronze doesn't last for ever underwater.

1. I think its a bell. Turn it upside down and check for an attachment point in the middle of the interior. I bet it will generate a tone on the solfeggio frequency scale if hit. The reason I think its a bell is that the style is reminiscent of hindu temples.

2. The artwork is a mixture of a greek motif background, and an unknown foreground.

n.b The third picture posted shows a single side of the artifact. Note that the entire side is symmetrical in terms of the design.

3. There are attachment sites on either side (see first picture). Could this be to attach ropes through? Could there have been more than one of these that connected together?

4. There is a face on one of the images rather reminiscent of the pantheonic wind god Vayu/ Anemoi/ Njord (in the hindu/ greek/ scandinavian systems respectively).

Overall this is a very interesting artifact because of its design style. It appears to be more syncretic than any other I have seen as it incorporates a physical ancient style of design (possibly if its a bell), greek motifs and places a high importance on symmetry.

Keep us updated buddy, this is the most interesting thread Ive read in weeks!

it is late greek, you can tell by the 'key' motif.
most likely used as a posh torch holder. theres a very similar one in londons natural history museum.
mystery solved.

Here is the most interesting image in my opinion, turned upside down!




Notice the top artwork is indistinct. Looks almost like a cow's head to me on first impression.

The middle motif is clearly and almost definitely in my opinion two human heads facing each other.

The bottom image is representative of a heart, and possibly a soul within a heart?




[edit on 24-9-2008 by 44soulslayer]

[edit on 24-9-2008 by 44soulslayer]

reply to post by Skyfloating


My guess is Asian, Chinese most likely- it's bronze & has stylized dragon heads. Probably about 4 - 5 centuries old. The Spanish & the Portuguese had monopolies on trading in Asia in the sixteenth century, & traded in Asian goods & much else world-wide. There were many Spanish ships that sank off of the coasts of North America, especially Florida. I suggest getting an appointment with someone in the Asian Art Museum in San Francisco. The design of the vessel is atypical & unusual, but that is most likely artistic license. Atlantis was said to have sunk around 10,800 B.C., & I really don't think that anything of metal like this would have survived this long. Deianera

Another fascinating thread Skyfloating

As 44soulslayer has mentioned, I think the object is placed upside-down in the photographs. This becomes apparent when you look towards the bottom of the object (real top) where a face appears, giving a reference as to which way this thing should be facing.

I'm not sure if this helps at all, but I've tried to just enhance the face's features a bit to make it clearer to see.



To me it looks very Chinese, perhaps a representation of the wind? Seeing as it has those wing-like appendages.

This image is also clearly a representation of some kind of horned animal, which to me looks more like a wild buck than a cow...




A bell? I think perhaps...

I never would have noticed the Chinese correlations, the horned animal, the wind-symbol or anything else on my own. Great work guys.

Ive relayed the questions to the owner.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
After being uncovered...it found its way to the Museum of Kansas City. Upon the museum closing it went into the hands of a museum employee, who´s son finally told my contact person about it

Ok, as someone who has had some association with museums, I would suggest that you investigate the back story first. Provenience is everything, otherwise an artifact is just an object of interest.

For starters, is there a Museum of Kansas City that went bust? Museums have a serious accession policy that dictates how and when items are 'de-accessioned'. You can't just walk away from a museum with a 'thing'...that's known as theft. If a museum were to close, it's contents would go through a carefully proscribed process, and to prevent a conflict of interest, those working for the institution are out of the loop as far as acquiring any goodies is concerned.

Now, the other side of the equasion is identification of the item, and often museums have public events whereby professionals will identify or appraise 'stuff' that the public has brought by. Universities are a similar source of expert evaluation.

Good luck, and do report back to us, eh?

Atlantis being one of my strongest interests, I had to post my oppinions.

The things striking to me, besides size shape and colour, is the symmetry.

Now the REALLY striking things are pictures!
The square spirals, a bird, and what appears to be Fleur-de-lise.

I'll start with the Fluer (taken from wiki)

...The use for ornamental or symbolic purposes of the stylised flower usually called fleur de lis is common to all eras and all civilizations. It is an essentially graphic theme found on Mesopotamian cylinders, Egyptian bas-reliefs, Mycenean potteries...

Mycenean POTTERIES, and that artifact sure looks like a pottery.

Mycenae is not far from the Saronic Gulf, which leads to the Aegean Sea.
For those not familiar, In ancient times the sea was the birthplace of two ancient civilizations – the Minoans of Crete and Mycenean!

Who influenced them to make pottery and who influenced them to use the fluer...? The symbol itself, no one can say where it came from.
I'd like to say at this point Atlantis.

Now, the square spirals.
I'm sure you all see the resemblance to Mayan styles, well here's a quick fact:
The earliest known Mayan settlements were on the Pacific Coast.
Earliest known characturists of them was POTTERY.

Now I admit, I am imaginative and hopeful, but just by going by symbol, and the object itself, it goes back to ancient civilizations. Not just any civilizations, ones that no one knows by whom they were influenced, and both of those civilizations were near the sea, and known for similar works.

Farfetched sure, but it's my initial thoughts.

Unfortunately for the bird I can't think of anything. But whatever the case may be, this is one cool artifact!


[edit on 24-9-2008 by JBGrimm]

Originally posted by TheOneEyedProphet
There are countless artifacts lying around in boxes in many museums, they wont display them because they don't know what they are or who made them.

Museums have guidelines on what to exhibit and what to send to the vaults.
One day the mysteries will be solved.

Yeah, heaven forbid they might put them on display, with a sign that says "We have no idea what the heck these things are, or where they are from!" It might upset the delicate constitutions of the cogniscinti.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I´ll have to ask which museum that was. Its been a year since Ive been told, and I havent saved the emails. I remember him telling me either the museum or a section of it had been closed down after a fire. We´ll see.

Originally posted by JBGrimm


Now the REALLY striking things are pictures!
The square spirals, a bird, and what appears to be Fleur-de-lise.


[edit on 24-9-2008 by JBGrimm]

Ive read a lot about this flower in connection to various Royal Dynasties, if Im not mistaken....?

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by stikkinikki

 

It's neat but does not have wear consistant with 2,000 years (or whatever) under the sea.

That's a bit presumptuous considering that the OP hasn't even said what it is made out of.



And to the OP:

That's cool! Starred and flagged.

A person with a trained eye can tell it's made of metal. Personally i would say bronze or brass due to the green discoloration. Perhaps an alloy? Due to the "black rust" iron? copper?

I want to give my impression without reading anyone elses...

My first thought was that it held fire or was a light for a temple. The design at the top looks like a flame to me. At first I thought leaves and then it looked more like fire.
It is beautiful. I pictured fire coming out of it and the image was nice.
The greek key design on it makes me think it was from somewhere around there. Or influenced by it.
It has a nice floral design that is well balanced, so I thought maybe it was for flowers or plants. It seems feminine. As if it were made for a woman.
I found the "handles" to be strange. Perhaps it was carried with the two middle fingers inside the two openings?
I see some black under the patina.. I wonder if it was originally black?

Ok, I have read the other's responses... and from an artistic perspective I do not believe it is upside down. I don't believe it to be Mayan as they use "scarier" symbols.
the Greek key design may not be originally greek and it is square and not a circle so the Alantis circle theory is moot.
It's not a circle key so why bother discussing it?
I don't see bulls and dolphins. I see scroll patterns. The wings look like flames to me not wings. I don't see a face. I see a floral emblem.
I see a scroll design pedestal holding the flame design. I dont see a vagina, although I have seen them depicted much like that.

that's pretty darned cool how you made it blink like that....
It does look like a face now. In a fire god kind of way. interesting. I would like to see a picture of the side head on to those protrusions next to the face. Not the "handles" but the other ones. Do they have a design to them? they have a wave sculptured look like if you rested your fingers on it, it would fit nicely....
And the "brass knuckle" ones down below look uncomfortable to carry it with fingers.

[edit on 24-9-2008 by seagrass]

I, too, would say it's greek. The spirals makes me think it's an ancient olympic torch. Though, it's pretty hard to say if it is that old.

If it is asian, perhaps it might be from the supposed lost fleets of the chinese. I seem to remember a book called 1421. Just a thought.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Thank you for showing that great find. I was reading about the Mayan culture in Colin Wilson's latest book "Atlantis and the Kingdom of the Neanderthals" and the conclusion is they were taught by rote. They did not develop their culture in the hundreds of years they had it. The wheel would of been a great invention to move carts and items on the streets they built, but they did not invent one. There is question on who taught them. The book is not about ancient astronauts or aliens teaching us everything, but states a case for an ancient civilization or Atlantis. Skyfloating, do you know of any good books on this subject that deal with ancient civilizations (without the ET angle)?