Homeschooling Banned in California as State Turns Parents Into Criminals for Teaching Their Own Chil

What all of you are ignoring is the other side of this: the parents who homeschool their children, and teach them only to believe the things THEY believe, thus making them much more closed-minded individuals. As far as I am concerned this isn't so much about the right of parents to teach (and I DON'T think you have a right to teach your children if you are not educated enough yourself to do so. For God's sake let's not have the blind leading the blind) but the right of children to have access to a well-rounded set of information and ideas.
Otherwise we are just raising our children to be little versions of us and no progression is possible.
I recognize that not all homeschooling parents are so corrupt, but enough of them are for it to be scary.
Some of my cousins for instance are homeschooled, and they are very smart kids - their mom has a master's degree in education - but very closed-minded, knowing only what their parents tell them, and very socially awkward, not having any good friends outside of the family.
That is the nagative side of homeschooling.

So under the logic that some are defending, would it be okay for your children to go to a school where none of the teachers were qualified to teach? Would you be comfortable in the idea that "it didn't matter as long as the children passed the state assessment tests"?

Also, I hear a lot of "my children" in this thread. You all realise of course, your children are not possessions. They do not, in any meaning of the word, belong to you. You are merely guardians while they are juveniles. The state's responsiblity is to insure that the children's needs are met while they are juveniles. The logic that the government can't 'tell you what to do with your children' is false. They aren't pets or possessions. They are citizens of the united states of which, currently, you are given the responsiblity of care for.

reply to post by Jadette


My first post I have to disagree strongly. Nothing personal.

WRONG: You are merely guardians while they are juveniles.
RIGHT :You are THE guardians while they are juveniles.

WRONG: The state's responsiblity is to insure that the children's needs are met while they are juveniles.
RIGHT: The PARENTS responsiblity is to insure that the children's needs are met while they are juveniles.

I think the people are with me on this one.



my edits are because of poor spelling, sorry, was in public school.
[edit on 24-9-2008 by Benarius]

[edit on 24-9-2008 by Benarius]

Originally posted by chise61
"A primary purpose of the education system is to TRAIN school children in good citizenship, patriotism, and loyality to the state and nation"

Funny i thought the primary purpose of the education system was to TEACH children, not to TRAIN them. They should be teaching math, reading,english, etc.


You don't teach patriotism,and loyalty it's earned.You are patriotic and loyal to a country that deserves patriotism and loyalty not to one that tries to shove it down your throat. When did America become a communistic country that TRAINS their children to be patriotic and loyal ? You also teach good citizenship, you can't train people to be good citizens.


OMG i can not believe that some idiot actually made that statement ! They just flat out told us that they're primary purpose is to BRAINWASH our children ! I'm sorry but that statement outrages me.


They don't want to teach them anything, they just want to TRAIN them like dogs, or mindless zombies !


Who do they think they are kidding, they don't teach our children anything about these things anymore. Hell they don't even teach them what's in the constitution anymore !


All they want to do is to make sure that parents don't teach them about our constitutional rights, the fact that this country is a republic and not a democracy, and just how corrupt and out of control this goverment really is.


They don't want our children to be free thinking individuals, they want them to conform to what they want them to be, believe what they tell them, live as they say.


I seriously hope that these parents take this all the way up to the supreme court.


This stems from the fact that the goverment believes that every child belongs to them and that the parents are only allowed to keep them as long as they do what the goverment wants them to do.

That is about the best thing I have read on this Board for a very long time. Brilliant!

Take a look at the original Zeitgeist Movie. The new release is due on 3rd October but scroll down past the trailer to the original movie and watch from about 1 hour 40 minutes.

www.zeitgeistmovie.com...

Home schooling is already banned in Germany so sad to see that it's being banned in a US state too. Where next?

We left the UK and moved to southern Spain around 5 years ago and my children do a combination of both the Spanish school system and also education at home. This was mainly so I could keep up their English levels in reading, writing and speaking but, we also discuss and look at many other topics together and they know that after they leave school, getting a j.o.b., mortgage, finance, etc, is their choice and that they shouldn't feel pressure to do so. Why should they be primed into a system that will just suck the life out of them and turn them into non thinking robots/citizens.

If they choose to pick seasonal fruit/veg, get an ice-cream stand on the beach, or go to Uni and have a career then I will be happy as long as they're happy. It is their life, not mine. Obviously, I'll (hopefully) always be around to guide them but ultimately I want them to understand that they have choices and with those choices there may be consequences and the ultimate responsibility lies with them.

Why should they compare their school results with others in the class - we can't all excel at everything. My children compare their results with their own last results and don't bother to try and be ahead of, or worry about being behind, any other children.

People may be forced to send their children to schools but you can still educate them at home, behind closed doors. Let's just keep our children's minds open to the endless possibilities of the lives ahead of them.

Maya

reply to post by Maya00a


To my knowledge homeschooling in germany was always banned. There is a big part of the population in germany that moves to other european countries to get their kids homeschooled to avoid fines or even imprisonment because of that law.

This is an old article with a recent date slapped on it. There is nothing to see here. The ruling in favor of homeschooling still stands. It was hard even for the California courts to ignore the mountain of evidence in favor of homeschooling. It is even harder to ignore the mountain of evidence that public schools in America do not protect children from drugs or ignorance. It is unlikely that indifferent parents would ever pass up the free baby sitting that public schools provide.

You got to be kidding... I'll put up my 12 year old home schooled kid up against any High school senior in any subject and my kid will make the senior cry

Couple of things: This news is old - it happened but the decision was overturned so homeschooling is still legal in California and the parents are not criminals.

Also there are plenty of studies that show statistically that parents with only a high school education can and do effectively teach their own children. That is why in most states an advanced degree or teaching credentials are not needed.

Any one particular case can result in failure, just as public schools can result in failure for certain students. If, however, you look at statistics, and go by the big overall picture, homeschooling scores are above average, no matter what the credentials of the parents.



[edit on 24-9-2008 by hadriana]

[edit on 24-9-2008 by hadriana]

Homeschooling in Germany has not always been banned. Hitler banned it. It has been illegal since he did.

reply to post by The_Alarmist2012


i hope you are joking!
or just arguing from the govermental point of view like a advocatus diaboli

this world needs more individual and free thinking people.
i really understand the fears of the OP concerning the decreasing of the rights of parents, although i am settled in a country with so called compulsory education - no chance of homeschooling

people in germany are sent to jail for teaching their kids at home
or even worse, forced to leave the country if they want to stick on it but the kids are taken away from them
or the state freezes accounts as it happend to a familiy close to bremen, although they were able to proof that their 2 sons did more than well being homeschooled, they got more knowledge a kid of their grade were expected to have - could have been part of the problem

my son is at a public school in germany and they teach him everything - but not how to think
it is much more important that a folder has the correct order and an exercise book a cover
poor poor world

reply to post by Reddupo


i often heard stories like yours.
but a school should be able to teach kids to learn their own way. should accept thoughts and ideas beyond mainstream

how you dealing with the problem?


****

when i watch how kids are taught to write
that they are allowed to write for 2 years with wrong spelling and in 3rd grade they get bad marks for the wrong spelling, i get really really sick
if i would have taught my son spelling and grammar at home he wouldn.t have had such problems. there are many many misinformation and even false data in school books!

reply to post by greeneyedleo


is it possible to leave kids at home with no education neither from school nor parents?
here it would be illegal!
and why should education be a state issue?
usually parents want the best for their kids
and this can.t be a education made by state - unfortunately we don.t have a choice

reply to post by hadriana


Yes, you're right. But I don't always see the need to point out a post-nazi germany when talking about germany. Always is an absolute term. So maybe I'll always talk about pre-hitler, popular-hitler and post-hitler times when mentioning germany.

EDIT: Homeschooling was always banned since HITLER banned it.

I hope you're happy. But I also hope that one day we can mention germany without always bringing Hitler into it.

Whoa...hold the horses.

I was never homeschooled - but I had a few friends that were, and knew quite a few others.

Homeschoolers out perform people their own grade level typically.
The school system is broke my friend.
(And Im not calling you friend sarcastically...truly the system is broke.)

Americas school systems are the worst anyways...Georgia and Hawaii are the lowest on the list as far as education goes the last I checked.

Parents, can know what is best for the kid.
I say can, cause not all parents care about their kids...some do.

It really depends...if state or private school works for you, go for it.
The point is to have the ability to make a choice.

If this news is real...its crazy.
And yeah, i would say people want a bunch of mind numb puppets...people that dont think out of the box.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by ANoNyMiKE
How do you know that they aren't? This seems entirely reasonable to me, if I were a university I wouldn't accept a kid that went through high school at home getting taught whatever his parents thought were important.

Please re-read the post you replied to...lot of info is there to clarify the point. (As well as other post.)

Who is to say the teachers in school are qualified?
Just because you pass a test you think you know how to communicate that info...or even want to?

A lot of teachers are there cause they dont have anything better to do.
Most people cant remember a teacher that has had any profound influence on there life.

I do..my drama teacher who said the whole grading system was a joke!
How about that...thats my view today. You just cant pigeon hole kids my friend.

You want puppets that dont think? Send them to a school that doesnt challenge them.

By the way, you havent seen homeschooling programs. It varies.
There are complete DVD systems with teachers teaching your kid...if that is what you prefer. You can supplement, or whatever the kid needs at the time.

I take it you dont have kids. (Again, no sarcasm), but by how your responding it seems to be the case.

There are parents that take an interest in their kids.
By the way, has your college education helped you...beside get in debt?

I know personally people that have achieved well enough in life without a college education or just a tech education.

Dont know, maybe your just wanting to stir the bucket, as your argument just doesnt hold up. (Albeit, here in Hungary you will find sympathizers...but even some of them are waking up to the potential of doing something outside the system. Try it yourself sometimes...the fresh air feels good.)

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by ANoNyMiKE

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by ANoNyMiKE

 

You really have not clue how the home schooling is done do you, this no about a parent teaching whatever they want to their children, in order for the child to get credits for grades they have to pass the state test for their grade level, so the materials use for the home school are state approved.

The difference is that home school children do better than public school ones as they don't have to deal with the crap that goes on in public schools.

learn the facts.

Obviously I've hit a sore spot.

Being a parent doesn't quality you to teach math or science or history, sorry. Guidelines like this are put in place for the kids, the parents seem to think it's all about them.
Some parents probably make decent teachers, a lot don't, why should the kid suffer? Even if he takes a state test, why shouldn't he be given the best possible education? The parents that actually realized this isn't about them, who went to be educated themselves, would put kids through home school getting As, while the rest selfish ones will end up giving their kids C's and D's.

Originally posted by SonicInfinity
reply to post by ANoNyMiKE

 

You forget that there are personal and religious reasons as to why some parents prefer their kids to be homeschooled.

Religious and personal reasons like...

"Earth is 6,000 years old! Burn anyone at the stake who says different!!!"
or
"Blacks are less then whites! I won't be having you go to some school that lets monkeys in it!"

Yeah, I can see why States and Colleges would be a bit reluctant to let parents teach their kids. Or lets say not as extreme...

"The Civil War was a war of Northern Agression and the blacks should still be slaves!"
or
"Hitler did nothing wrong!"

Again, you can see where the State or Colleges may be wary.

reply to post by ANoNyMiKE


i would like to point out that if the "unqualified parents" are doing a better job at teaching their kids than the school system your argument loses all basis - teachers go to college to learn how to teach and handle a classroom - parents raised their kids and taught them everything they know until they get to school - "unqualified parents" raised their own kids. the horror

This reminds me of the Mocidade Portuguesa (Portuguese Youth), that was present on Portugal's fascist regime until 1974. Where children were programmed rather than taught. More than an education system, it formed a paramilitary organization that answered only to António de Oliveira Salazar. Similar to Hitler's Nazi Youth.

Still today, homeschooling here in Portugal is still highly disregarded as a valid alternative education system. Although kids aren't dragged by their ears to a classroom, it is seen as an obligation from the People to the State.

I hope that by the time I have kids, I'm able to provide an alternative to their education. More than to avoid "programming", it's highly important that I can learn more than well enough everything they need to be taught.

[edit on 24-9-2008 by Toorop]

Man, I thought I was having deja-vu until I remembered this "news" is 6 months old.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I eagerly await naturalnews.com's reporting on the Pearl Harbor attack.

I'm going to be honest, I skimmed through this thread briefly, as it is about the third or fourth on ATS with Homeschooling as an issue.
I have eight children, that I homeschooled for almost as many years.
My oldest did attend high school, of his own free will, and graduated a year earlier than his peers, with honors.
My second oldest son, was also homeschooled, then attended high school of his own free will. He did not apply to colleges right away, but was very surprised to get a phone call from our local college here, offering him a spot this fall.
So how many students get a call from a college they never applied to, asking them to be a student?

For the record, I learned how to homeschool my children, from a couple of teachers who were my neighbors years ago, and were so disgusted with the system, they refused to put their own children in it.
I'm not going to argue what is right or wrong. I did what was best for our family, for my children..that may not be the case for everyone.
However, every day at noon I walk past a high school not far from my home, and what I see is all I need to justify my decision. If these are the future for us, the ones churned out like ground chuck, then heaven help us all.

[/quatoe]
How do you know that they aren't? This seems entirely reasonable to me, if I were a university I wouldn't accept a kid that went through high school at home getting taught whatever his parents thought were important.


Reasonable to you? what gives them the right to tell you if it is ok not to have home schooling? How ever, i do agree on what kind of teaching these home schooling have but still, it's not right.