Homeschooling Banned in California as State Turns Parents Into Criminals for Teaching Their Own Chil

Originally posted by mmariebored

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

Here In GA the religious veiled education in Public schools has always been in high gear, I spend 9 years teaching in the public schools here as a Spanish teacher and it was prayer in the morning for all school grades and in elementary was prayer before lunch.

So actually at least in my neck of the wood religion in public schools is very much alive.

I hope you realize that "praying" and "belief in God" is NOT "religion".

"Religion" is teaching/practicing a particular doctrine.

Yes, but people who fervently pray in schools do tend to be deeply embedded in a religion and also very much tend to try and influence others to join their particular religion.

This is America, we have freedom to practice religion here. We also have freedom of Speech.

Moot point. If you don't like that, get your buddies and your congressmen and Senators to amend the Constitution.

This isn't China yet.

I see both benefits and shortcomings in homeschooling. I'm not one to want to try it myself with my inevitable children, but that doesn't mean it's not right for someone else.


The key point here being freedom.
Something far too many people are forgetting the definition of.


Croskey hit the nail on the head right here...

"A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation," Croskey wrote.

To train patriotism and loyalty...

I want to bring up a point here...
PATRIOTISM and LOYALTY are EARNED not TRAINED.

Heavens forbid your government should EARN your loyalty... no, that sounds too much like caring and work... so instead, they force it down your throat.

Making sure nobody's education is different is just a way to ensure your loyalty and patriotism was forced down your throat with adequate force.
... make sure you don't spit it back up again.


Few of the countries I've lived in have earned my loyalty and patriotism... in fact... only one country... and they didn't demand my loyalty, patriotism, or even respect...
... and for that, I give them all three.

Originally posted by ANoNyMiKE

Originally posted by SonicInfinity


How long until this is implemented in all states across the US? I guess they think parents are teaching our children the "wrong" things.

www.naturalnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

How do you know that they aren't? This seems entirely reasonable to me, if I were a university I wouldn't accept a kid that went through high school at home getting taught whatever his parents thought were important.

Even if that person (kid) smoked all of your entrance exams and aced the other major 'intellectual' tests out there? You see, many homeschooled kids are like this. They learn a lot more and have shown higher scores on many of these tests. But alas, they didn't get that state sponsored schooling where of course, patriotism and obeyance is taught.

If I were a university that wasn't corrupt, I would accept kids on their aptitude scores and NOT where they went to school.

Originally posted by ANoNyMiKE
Being a parent doesn't quality you to teach math or science or history, sorry.

Theoretically, anything a parent would teach is something they ALREADY KNOW. They have been through the System. And they have books and video to help out. What the System objects to is the parents' interpretation of information. It leads to free-thinking and a lack of indoctrination.

THAT is why they are having issues.

Guidelines like this are put in place for the kids, the parents seem to think it's all about them.

"Guidelines!?!" This is a MANDATE. And, no... It's NOT in place for the kids. It's in place for the System. If it were a "guideline," parents would still have the option to CHOOSE.

Some parents probably make decent teachers, a lot don't,

And the study of this you can show is...where? Fact is, most parents that choose to teach are fairly competent. Most people who do not feel adequate to teach, don't. Sure, a small percentage feel they are adequate but are not. By far the majority who are moved to teach are good at it, knowing when to explore answers with their child that they may not immediately have.

Teaching is not about spouting information from memory, but making the finding of the information an adventure, and one that the teacher and the student can do together.

... why should the kid suffer?

Why do you assume the kid suffers?

Even if he takes a state test, why shouldn't he be given the best possible education?

And you think a school system that is graduating illiterates out of high school is "the best???" When home-schooled kids are blowing the public-schooled kids out of the water? I ask YOU the same. Why shouldn't a kid get the best, if the parent has the time and the inclination to teach?

The parents that actually realized this isn't about them, who went to be educated themselves, would put kids through home school getting As, while the rest selfish ones will end up giving their kids C's and D's.

Virtually ALL home-schooled kids score much higher on the tests than public-schooled kids do. And a parent who is willing to take the time and put forth the effort to educate their kid(s) is NOT thinking it's "all about themselves."

You have a very poor understanding of the issue.

reply to post by Amaterasu


It's a lost cause bro, annoyingMike never showed his face in this thread after that post.

His opinion was destroyed by the hard facts.

I can see both sides of the argument. I homeschooled my daughter for kindergarten after the school I had to fight to get into with an "out of zone" transfer had her teacher explaining everything to the parents in Spanish while the two or three English speaking parents waited in the corner for their turn to hear the speil in English. Right then and there I vowed that she would NEVER go to that school. But because I live in a lousy district and can't afford private school I had no other option than to homeschool. I have a BA in poli sci, 12 years in the work world, etc. And while she did wonderfully, even getting up to 3rd grade math and reading before all was said and done there was something missing. No assemblies, no fun among classmates, no teamwork exercises. It was just kind of lonely.

This year I managed to get her into a much better, much more racially balanced school for 1st grade (Her zoned school is 70% hispanic, 20% other minorities, 5% white). She had a lot of problems adjusting at first, it was too noisy, too big, too scary. But now she absolutely loves it, particularly all of those things I just couldn't do for her at home. Still, I don't rely entirely on her public school education. We do a lot of reading and exercises at home in addition to trips to the Science Center, Art mUsuem, etc. Her education is still my responsibility EVEN if she attends public school.

As for No Child Left Behind, I have to say I appreciate the option it provides parents of kids at failing schools. We have the choice to send them to better schools in the district if such a thing exists. Also it does hold teachers accountable for what they're doing with their time. In the end, whether to homeschool or not should be the choice of a responsible parent as long as they stay within some guidelines of insuring their child meets grade level.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

It's a lost cause bro, annoyingMike never showed his face in this thread after that post.

His opinion was destroyed by the hard facts.

Ah, well. That's what I get for responding without reading further. LOL!

Yeah, he clearly had no clue, and I'm glad we have put him straight. It would be a shame to have some reader see that and think he knew what he was talking about.

I just so happen to have gone through a home-schooling type education and I do know that the tests can easily be rigged. Now, it WAS over 15 years ago and there may be changes in how things are run, maybe now, the parents CAN'T help their children get "higher scores" to make their children look smarter than the public school children. Hell, maybe it really is all about parents caring enough to take the time to make sure their children are getting good grades in the first place. Maybe that's the reason they do well, maybe if more parents who have their children in public schools actually looked at their children's homework and made sure they got it done, maybe the stats would balance out. But I still believe home-schooling will one day be a thing of the past...

reply to post by mmariebored

But I still believe home-schooling will one day be a thing of the past...

What makes you think that?

Because in my 30+ years, I have only seen it GROW and become more and more popular. There is no sign its going anywhere, unless the government puts an end to it.

And yes, it has changed in 15yrs - dramatically. Because I was home schooled for a few years back in the 80s. It is NOTHING like it was back then. But even then, my brothers and I were always way ahead then public schools. They actually graduated from a public school - ahead of time at the top of their classes.

I will absolutely use this option if I can not find the best school for my daughter.


[edit on 9/25/2008 by greeneyedleo]

California is gone. It's not even part of the USA anymore. Honestly, the best for all of us is if that state just broke off the USA, sailed out to the middle of the ocean and sank. I know it's in the process of happening as we speak, but perhaps it needs to be sped up. I find it both hilarious and terrifying that so-called "progressives" are all about stopping progress and regressing as individuals. Kinda doesn't make any sense, does it?

I also like the way the guy tries to redefine patriotism in there, too. Why are liberals always trying to redefine patriotism? Perhaps because they don't fit into the actual definition and need to redefine it to do so? Ohhh! You're only a patriot if you go to public school on the left coast! Gotcha!

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by mmariebored

 

But I still believe home-schooling will one day be a thing of the past...

What makes you think that?

Because in my 30+ years, I have only seen it GROW and become more and more popular. There is no sign its going anywhere, unless the government puts an end to it.

And yes, it has changed in 15yrs - dramatically. Because I was home schooled for a few years back in the 80s. It is NOTHING like it was back then. But even then, my brothers and I were always way ahead then public schools. They actually grated from a public school - ahead of time at the top of their classes.

I will absolutely use this option if I can not find the best school for my daughter.

[edit on 9/25/2008 by greeneyedleo]

Do you not agree that the advantage of home schooled children is the fact that their parents are actively involved in their education?

Any teacher will tell you the FACT IS that the children who's parents are actively involved in their children's schoolwork AND in PTA, do far better than those who's parents are too busy to bother. These too busy parents have adopted the nation-wide pattern of allowing the public schools to do all the work for them when it comes to their children's education. Children need both parents AND their school to be successful in this day and age.

Home schooling can be successfully eliminated if PTA is more strongly enforced.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by mmariebored]

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

It's a lost cause bro, annoyingMike never showed his face in this thread after that post.

His opinion was destroyed by the hard facts.

Ah, well. That's what I get for responding without reading further. LOL!

Yeah, he clearly had no clue, and I'm glad we have put him straight. It would be a shame to have some reader see that and think he knew what he was talking about.

Ignorance was denied... with swiftness and without mercy.

reply to post by mmariebored


then you are fortunate to live in a good school area. But it is not indicative of the rest of the country.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by nixie_nox]

Originally posted by mmariebored
I just so happen to have gone through a home-schooling type education and I do know that the tests can easily be rigged. Now, it WAS over 15 years ago and there may be changes in how things are run, maybe now, the parents CAN'T help their children get "higher scores" to make their children look smarter than the public school children. Hell, maybe it really is all about parents caring enough to take the time to make sure their children are getting good grades in the first place. Maybe that's the reason they do well, maybe if more parents who have their children in public schools actually looked at their children's homework and made sure they got it done, maybe the stats would balance out. But I still believe home-schooling will one day be a thing of the past...

I call B.S.... Now, while a parent can "help" a child cheat, the ACT and SAT tests are NOT administered by the parents, but by the State. The parent is helpless to assist their child with those tests.

These tests, SAT and ACT tests are linked to show that home schooled kids test on average 30 points higher than their public schooled counterparts.

Moot point I'm afraid.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by mmariebored
I just so happen to have gone through a home-schooling type education and I do know that the tests can easily be rigged. Now, it WAS over 15 years ago and there may be changes in how things are run, maybe now, the parents CAN'T help their children get "higher scores" to make their children look smarter than the public school children. Hell, maybe it really is all about parents caring enough to take the time to make sure their children are getting good grades in the first place. Maybe that's the reason they do well, maybe if more parents who have their children in public schools actually looked at their children's homework and made sure they got it done, maybe the stats would balance out. But I still believe home-schooling will one day be a thing of the past...

I call B.S.... Now, while a parent can "help" a child cheat, the ACT and SAT tests are NOT administered by the parents, but by the State. The parent is helpless to assist their child with those tests.

These tests, SAT and ACT tests are linked to show that home schooled kids test on average 30 points higher than their public schooled counterparts.

Moot point I'm afraid.

I suppose you "missed" the part where I said this was 15+ years ago when parents were able to help their children with their tests...and did you even read the other post? My point was, if more parents would get involved with their children's work, as home-schoolers do, their children would do just as well...

reply to post by ANoNyMiKE


I think YOU are ignoring everyone's point here and instead are trying to get everyone to focus on just one little point of your argument. You want everyone to justify how it is wrong for California to require that parents be taught how to teach their kids before they can actually teach them.

What YOU are ignoring from EVERYONE in this thread is that homeschooled kids test well above public/privately schooled kids the MAJORITY of the time.

How can you say that these parents aren't qualified to teach their own kids if they are OBVIOUSLY doing a better job than the teachers who WERE taught to teach??

That fact alone, which has been restated over and over again in this thread, makes your argument that parents should be 'qualified' to teach obsolete.

The initial post is hoax news.

David Gutierrez, idiot or fraud, wrote that initial story without checking the facts and it turns out to be total crap.

Yes, Virginia, Homeschooling Is Legal In California

Yesterday, Karen Taylor of CHN (the California Homeschool Network, an outstanding statewide support group) posted the following:

"We are NOT in the middle of a new legal case, however one very slow journalist is just getting around to reporting the very old in re Rachel news. Can you believe it's actually making the rounds on lists around the country as ‘news,’ and that CHN's 800# has already received a phone call this morning about it? Just goes to show you can't believe everything you read."

She added a link to an article by David Gutierrez, posted on Natural News (www.naturalnews.com), and dated September 23. This article reported the news that homeschooling is now illegal in California unless parents are certified teachers.

His article is getting around fast. Creepily, most of the blogs and other sites reprinting it are paranoid-freak-anti-Semitic-racist-jerk-type places; but some of them are sane enough that they really ought to know better.

Naturalnews.com is fear driven garbage propaganda,
go here instead for the facts:



Court Ruling: California statutes permit homeschooling!

[edit on 25-9-2008 by Regenmacher]

Its my understanding that Homeschooling is NOT illegal.
according to CA Homeschool Network,

The court vacated its February 2008 decision by agreeing to rehear the case. In addition to hearing from the parties on rehearing, the court also invited numerous friends-of-the-court, known as "amicus curiae" to provide legal argument. The court heard argument from the parties and the amicus curiae on June 2, 2008 for more than 2 hours.

Today's court ruling held that (1) California statutes permit home schooling as a species of private school education; and (2) the statutory permission to home school may constitutionally be overridden in order to protect the safety of a child who has been declared a dependent.

Homeschooling, therefore, remains a legal educational option in California.
DATED AUGUST 8, 08

fyi.

reply to post by irishgrl
Erroneous date. If this were true, it would be all over the web. Check all the homeschooling websights; there is nothing on this. Homeschooling is legal in California; those who say otherwise are either misinformed ,or they are hoaxers.

Originally posted by mmariebored

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by mmariebored
I just so happen to have gone through a home-schooling type education and I do know that the tests can easily be rigged. Now, it WAS over 15 years ago and there may be changes in how things are run, maybe now, the parents CAN'T help their children get "higher scores" to make their children look smarter than the public school children. Hell, maybe it really is all about parents caring enough to take the time to make sure their children are getting good grades in the first place. Maybe that's the reason they do well, maybe if more parents who have their children in public schools actually looked at their children's homework and made sure they got it done, maybe the stats would balance out. But I still believe home-schooling will one day be a thing of the past...

I call B.S.... Now, while a parent can "help" a child cheat, the ACT and SAT tests are NOT administered by the parents, but by the State. The parent is helpless to assist their child with those tests.

These tests, SAT and ACT tests are linked to show that home schooled kids test on average 30 points higher than their public schooled counterparts.

Moot point I'm afraid.

I suppose you "missed" the part where I said this was 15+ years ago when parents were able to help their children with their tests...and did you even read the other post? My point was, if more parents would get involved with their children's work, as home-schoolers do, their children would do just as well...

When in the history of this nation have parents been able to have an active hand in the aptitude testing of their children?

Testing is administered by the state.