The KV-63 Conspiracy: Ancient Egyptian Finds Kept Secret

That a conspiracy-magazine published something the Egyptian Ministry of Culture published two months later.

Hans: Ah so what? Why is this important? One was a news report the other an official report. I don’t quite understand your zeal on this one. Remember they aren't following any rules as to when they do x, y or z. They do it when they so feel like it.

* That KV-63 was kept secret for years.

Nope, it was found and dug out probably in December 2005 and reported the next month – again remote sensing is not proof of existence, just an indicator. You need to get in their and gets your hands dirty.

* That the Egyptian Ministry of Culture released false/misleading information.

Hans: How exactly was it misleading? You mean you FEEL its misleading - but was it really?

* That Otto Schaden, Reeves and Hawass and others contradicted each other on the subject several times.

Hans: Oh my god – do you have their comments on this or are you deliberately trying to make this into a controversy? LOL You do realize that in the real world thing change, mistakes are made – you trying a bit to hard. Have you accosted these evil doers and made them explain their villiany!

* That the pseudoskeptics showing up here use deflection-tactics when they have nothing to put against the facts.

Hans: no facts just wild speculation – I answered your conspiracy with my first post, based on reason and knowledge of how archaeology actually works. You are trying to hard Sky. You’re not uncovering the evil conspiracy you're making up stuff by misunderstanding the trivia of life.

I have the documentation and facts pretty straight and there´s nothing you can do about it.

All I have to do is walk over to a drawer and pull out the magazine in which the exact location of KV-63 is published by this fringe-mag before it was even known, to document this for example.

I have a few more articles lying here, documenting the uproar in the local Egyptology community that they didnt know anything about it.

I even have an interview by an Archaeologist claiming that the magazine is lying - something Im sure he had to retract two months later.

You can call all of this "wild speculation" all that you want. You are wrong.




[edit on 1-10-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Hanslune


You say Im wasting my time.

One question on that: If all this is only utter rubbish, why do you respond to it at length and from thread to thread?

Howdy Sky

Because I like you to have an opposing opinion. People have a right to have both sides of the story-don'tyou think so Sky? Why would I NOT comment on what I believe you to be wrong about? Although you don't think it's quite right for anyone to disagree with you lots of people do, is it all part of the conspiracy Sky? Yes we're all part of the vast conspiracy. Oh and I always welcome your questioning me on what I think and I never think its part of a conpsiracy when you debate with me. But you always do. I wonder why that is? LOL

So have you broken this story yet? I strongly suggest (again) that you take your evidence over to the Hall of Ma'at and let REAL Egyptologists comment on it - why would you decline to do so?

Oh one little point,

You wrote this

....in which the exact location of KV-63 is published by this fringe-mag before it was even known

Obviously you are in error, it couldn't be published if it wasn't known - since you make errors why do you feel its impossible for groups of people in Egyptology to make them? I happen to know they do so all the time. Why do you feel they can't and when they do its part of a conspiracy?

I look forward to you exposing this great conspiracy - and proving it is just what you say it is.

Originally posted by Hanslune

So have you broken this story yet? I strongly suggest (again) that you take your evidence over to the Hall of Ma'at and let REAL Egyptologists comment on it - why would you decline to do so?

It will leak its way there and elsewhere sooner or later, without my effort. Its not my job to do all the work by myself.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Hawass has his very own agenda issues. My opinion is that it is a cocktail of Egyptian national identity, politics, & very possibly some super sensitive historical matters.

Oh, & don't forget Hawass' title to stir the mix together.

...and my bottom line opinion...he's a dangerous man.

What are they hiding?
Possibilities are numerous.
On opposite ends are that something in there may show that the Egyptian Empire is older than thought. Here we go with the Atlantean theory.
I will try to find where I read that civilization came suddenly to Egypt.

Or that is it younger than thought. Anatoly Fomenko thinks that the pyramids were built in the middle ages.

And then there is the idea that The Egyptian Empire was ruled by Egyptians that looked like they do today.
And so they cover up all those red and blonde haired mummies.
Fortunately many of them were examined and described before all the PC stuff got started.

Red & blonde haired mummies

Faces of the Pharoahs

[edit on 18-11-2008 by OhZone]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Okay well take that weak surrender as a, "okay you got me I don't have anything that I would DARE take to real Egyptologists"

Personally I'd love to see such a conspiracy be proven (there always been a bit of tension between the poseurs in Egyptologist and Middle-Easterners like myself.)

reply to post by OhZone


Yes, does anyone know more about this research?

"My particular quarry was the burial place of Nefertiti, Akhenaten's wife and coregent (who, I concluded, had been buried in the Valley as and when she died)," says Reeves. Also of interest were the "whereabouts of Akhenaten's secondary consort Kiya, his second daughter Meketaten and other lesser members of the royal family who had originally been interred at El-Amarna."

Akhenaten is fascinating. If you want to talk Atlantean or extra-terrestrial genetic manipulation or whatever, seems like he and his family provide some interesting clues - if you believe that stuff, of course Does anyone know more about this excavation before it was taken over?

Originally posted by Nox Vulpes
reply to post by OhZone

 

Yes, does anyone know more about this research?

"My particular quarry was the burial place of Nefertiti, Akhenaten's wife and coregent (who, I concluded, had been buried in the Valley as and when she died)," says Reeves. Also of interest were the "whereabouts of Akhenaten's secondary consort Kiya, his second daughter Meketaten and other lesser members of the royal family who had originally been interred at El-Amarna."

I saw a show on this, and they didn't find Nefertiti. It's been on Discovery channel or Nova or some such. The coffins were moved and nobody knows where they are yet.

Akhenaten is fascinating. If you want to talk Atlantean or extra-terrestrial genetic manipulation or whatever, seems like he and his family provide some interesting clues - if you believe that stuff, of course

Does anyone know more about this excavation before it was taken over?

I have read that his whole family looks like that, and if you look at the Nubians, lots of them have the same long head. I think maybe some of his ancestors came from Nubia.

National Geographic compared his skull with other skulls and it's not that "off." The art makes it look weird, but in the same way that manga makes people look weird. I think it was just something he really really liked.

After he dies, they still do the weird art for awhile and then sometime during King Tut's reign (Tut was his son) they go back to the old way of doing art. Tut must not have liked his father's taste in art. And, really, if you look at Tut (he and his half-sister were Tut's parents), Tut doesn't have that kind of skull at all.

I think it's just family genetics, myself. And a Nubian in the background.

Dr Zahi Hawass strikes again.

I recall watching his epic venture into the Queen's Chamber's southern shaft. However, he decided not to allow the drilling live on air but promised to proclaim to the world his discovery. If memory serves me correct, Zahi was fundamental in his belief he discovered the secret chamber of Khufu hidden inside the pyramid.

That was October 2005.

In 2002 construction began of a massive concrete security wall to surround the Giza plateau. Ancient Egyptians referred to the plateau as House of Osiris, Lord of the Underground Tunnels. In 1999, three years before the construction of the security wall, Dr Hawass proclaimed on FOXNews he located the Tomb of Osiris. It was rumoured the wall protected the excavation project.

2002 came and went. No announcement.

I recall reading another thread, possibly by the OP, that Dr Hawass believes some of the findings could lead to potential religious impact across the world. For that reason, he and the Egyptian authorities withhold significant material.

I recall reading another thread, possibly by the OP, that Dr Hawass believes some of the findings could lead to potential religious impact across the world. For that reason, he and the Egyptian authorities withhold significant material.

Hans: I believe the term would be 'hearsay'. Or self serving rumor.

Fringe always needs to have someone to blame for why evidence never shows up. Hawass is the current bad boy. You better blame him for everything fast as I understand he's going to retire in two years.

As had been pointed elsewhere, their are numerous non-Egyptian, non Egyptologists who work with this material and in Egypt. The rather famously inept Egyptian government would find it difficult to control these people.

[edit on 19/12/08 by Hanslune]

reply to post by Hanslune


Did I ever mention the word blame? No.

Throughout his career, he has publicly expressed a desire to find the Tomb of Osiris - which he believes is buried on Earth. Dr. Hawass would not travel the world's international media studios with no evidence to suggest a major discovery was emerging.

During the FOX live dig, he suggest it was a symbolic tomb. As many have questioned, why would a symbolic tomb be a major discovery? Really, you think he'd spend 30 years finding a symbolic tomb? FOX were not very impressed, especially when he authorised what can and cannot be filmed.

(According the myth) The body of Osiris was mummified and buried at an undisclosed location, which is the first historical or mythological reference to the practice of mummification. Osiris was the world's very first mummy, which is an important fact to remember.

Dr. Hawass knows this. That's why he believes the body of Osiris is located somewhere in the Giza plateau.

Either he has already found Osiris or using minor projects as a smoke screen in order to carry out private excavations. It is not sinister motives because the discovery of the body belonging to a deity probably will shake the foundations of organised religion.

Either he has already found Osiris or using minor projects as a smoke screen in order to carry out private excavations. It is not sinister motives because the discovery of the body belonging to a deity probably will shake the foundations of organised religion.

Yes but you are again stating rumor and hearsay as base to make an speculation about what Hawass is doing.

It might, but I suspect a deity by definition cannot be dead, but then it may be all made up.

delete - rewrite later.

[edit on 19-12-2008 by infinite]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
2. Later it turns out that it was already discovered one year earlier, in 2005 by Otto Schaden of the University of Memphis.

Ironically, I've just watched the documentary regarding KV-63 on the Discovery Channel - Otto Schaden was present throughout. The credits read "discovered 2005".

Zahi Hawass did not visit the location until 2006 (that's when the Tomb was declared discovered to the international press). What is remarkable, the discovery was delayed by a year. Why? Apparently, excavation work started in 2004 and then was stopped until 2005.

Mystery deepens.

reply to post by infinite


Howdy Infinite

I've just going to add a bit about Hawass from NON-fringe sources. In the fringe sources he is the devil incarnate, the guy responsible for hiding this and that. While in the real world he doesn't seem to have the reputation.

Sorry for the lenghty quotes.

We are writing to express our regret about the injudicious and inaccurate May 22, 2005 article about Dr. Zahi Hawass, Secretary-General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities.


As archaeologists and epigraphers working at many sites throughout Egypt (in most cases for many years), we completely reject the assertion that Dr. Hawass has created an atmosphere of intimidation, so far as such foreign-sponsored work is concerned. Dr. Hawass and his colleagues in the SCA have been unfailingly and generously supportive and cooperative as regards our projects. In addition, Dr. Hawass and his colleagues have vigorously promoted the protection of archaeological sites and monuments throughout Egypt as the need for expanded land use has become necessary and acute.

From our perspective, Dr. Hawass is a most positive figure. A leading scholar in his own right, he is also an extremely able representative of the interests of the Egyptian government and people in the protection and study of their extraordinary cultural heritage. The regulations controlling the activities of foreign-sponsored archaeological and epigraphic projects are eminently reasonable and applied fairly and impartially. We are also happy to respond to the Egyptian government’s concern, eloquently represented by Dr. Hawass, that especially threatened sites and on-site conservation needs to be given special attention by our projects.

Overall, our experience of Dr. Hawass and his colleagues is extremely positive, and we appreciate the generosity of the Egyptian government and people in allowing us to participate in research into their glorious past.

Sincerely,

Matthew Adams
Research Scholar, Institute of Fine Arts, New York University
Associate Director, Early Dynastic Abydos Project

Dieter Arnold

Edward Brovarski
Visiting Professor of Egyptian Archaeology
Brown University

Betsy M. Bryan
Alexander Badawy Professor in Egyptian Art and Archaeology
Department of Near Eastern Studies
Johns Hopkins University

Eugene Cruz-Uribe
Associate Professor
Department of History
Northern Arizona University

Richard A. Fazzini,
Director, Brooklyn Museum Expedition to the Precinct of Mut at Southern Karnak

Stephen Harvey
Assistant Professor of Egyptian Art and Archaeology
Oriental Institute, Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations
University of Chicago

Salima Ikram
Associate Professor
Department of Egyptology-SAPE 218
American University in Cairo

David Jeffreys
Senior Lecturer in Egyptian Archaeology
University College London
Institute of Archaeology

Mark Lehner
Research Associate, University of Chicago

W. Raymond Johnson
Director, Epigraphic Survey
Oriental Institute, University of Chicago

Ian Mathieson
Project Director
Saqqara Geophysical Survey Project

David O'Connor
Lila Acheson Wallace Professor of Egyptian Art and Archaeology
Institute of Fine Arts, New York University

Donald B. Redford
Professor of Egyptology
Department of Classics and Ancient Mediterranean Studies, Department of History
Pennsylvania State University
Director, Akhenaten Temple Project

Carol A. Redmount
Associate Professor, Near Eastern Studies Department
Curator of Egyptian Archaeology, PA Hearst Museum of Anthropology
University of California, Berkeley

Janet Richards
Associate Professor of Egyptology, Department of Near Eastern Studies
Associate Curator for Dynastic Egypt, Kelsey Museum of Archaeology
University of Michigan

David P. Silverman
Eckley B. Coxe, Jr.
Professor of Egyptology and Chair Near Eastern Languages and
Civilizations, University of Pennsylvania
Curator-in-Charge, Egyptian Section, University of Pennsylvania Museum

Josef Wegner
Associate Professor of Egyptology, University of Pennsylvania
Associate Curator, Egyptian Section, University of Pennsylvania Museum

Willeke Wendrich
Associate Professor of Egyptian Archaeology
Department of Near Eastern Languages and Cultures
University of California, Los Angeles

Penny Wilson
Lecturer in Egyptology
Department of Archaeology
Durham University

A statement from Hawass himself about the rules and excess to the pyramids for non-scientists

""Many people who excavate in Egypt believe that the rules announced three years ago for foreign expeditions to Egypt are new rules, formulated for the first time. Actually, almost all of these are old rules that have been on the books for years, but have never been enforced. There are only two new rules: first, that there should be publications in Arabic of all excavation results; and second, that no new excavations can be started in Upper Egypt (although new concessions can be granted in the Delta). All of the other rules were formulated long ago.We are entering a new era in Egypt. It is time to make protecting and caring for the monuments a priority, a job that requires the cooperation of all Egyptologists and scholars, both native and foreign. All of us need to dedicate our time to this effort.

There are, however, people who complain about the rules. Newspapers publish untrue statistics, claiming, for example, that the SCA has stopped over 100 expeditions from working. This is completely untrue. It is true that we no longer let anyone who wants to work in Egypt do so, and have turned down applications from people who are unqualified, or whose projects do not meet our clearly published criteria.

Who complains about these new rules? One example is a group of amateurs from France who want to drill inside the Great Pyramid, doing damage to prove a theory that has no basis and no academic support. Since the rules permit scholars to work only with the support of a reputable institution, they brought in a French Egyptologist to act as a dummy member of the team, simply to give them the authority to apply. This Egyptologist is not an expert on pyramids, and the application was rejected by the Permanent Committee, with the advice of the top experts in the field of pyramid studies.

We need people to understand that we are not against anyone. Our goal is to preserve the monuments of Egypt and protect our cultural heritage. To achieve this goal, we need everyone to follow and respect our rules. No more amateurs, no more non-scientific work. But to those who work with us, and care about Egypt’s past, present, and future, we say thank you".

Ah forgot to add the newspaper article in the Times the above were commenting on

The story in the Times

Hawass in a most unfavorable light!

reply to post by Hanslune


Its understandable that as an archaeologist, you would defend Hawass. But what you just posted doesnt have anything to do with what infinite just posted.

Is Discovery Channel now a "fringe" source of information?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Howdy Sky

Not really 'defending him' he is a egotiscal bastard you know. I'm pointing out he is not the evil conspirator that the fringe needs him to be to explain why evidence supporting their position doesn't show up. Its not that the evidence doesn't exist - HAWASS is hiding it.

Discovery? No not a fringe source, the problemm is with the interpretation.